Well, it’s cracked along the edge of the frame so it’s not compromising the seal from what I can see. That part of the surround also doesn’t move so any adhesive will keep the rubber from cracking further and solve the problem.
Epi / genisis speaker help
- Thread starter Audi0
- Start date
Well, it’s cracked along the edge of the frame so it’s not compromising the seal from what I can see. That part of the surround also doesn’t move so any adhesive will keep the rubber from cracking further and solve the problem.
Audi0
Super Member
I think it's like a rotten car tire. There one day just going to give out. Rubber has a shelf life no???
So I have the the toggle switches working. Definitely dirty contacts. Using an ohm meter. There coming to life. Have the other cabinet cracked open as well. And what do you know we got a different resistor of the correct value.
Looks untouched though. May be a factory thing as nobody would notice.
So I have the the toggle switches working. Definitely dirty contacts. Using an ohm meter. There coming to life. Have the other cabinet cracked open as well. And what do you know we got a different resistor of the correct value.
Looks untouched though. May be a factory thing as nobody would notice.
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Rubber surrounds can and do degrade, though my experience would indicate how long degradation takes depends on storage conditions. Not only can they crack, they can stiffen and prevent proper motion of the cone. For replacement you can use foam surrounds or google 'rubber speaker surrounds' if you want to stick with rubber.
Audi0
Super Member
Last part finally came. Foam done. It's too cost prohibitive to deal with human speakers for 4 new drivers. Going to maybe try a rubber surround kit. The surrounds are not stiff at all. I did notice some sag also in the surround so I rotated them. I think the rubber is aged and will have to be dealt with eventually.
There not a bad sounding speaker but technology and acoustic design has come along way in 45 years. The psb are a much better speaker.
Also the genisis speakers were not sealed properly at all when I did the test. No gaskets half the screws in. Leaky.
There not a bad sounding speaker but technology and acoustic design has come along way in 45 years. The psb are a much better speaker.
Also the genisis speakers were not sealed properly at all when I did the test. No gaskets half the screws in. Leaky.
kfa888
Addicted Member
That's far from a good comparison. Get the Genesis up to 100% before making any assumptions. Aged cracking / sagging surrounds, unsealed cabinets and old capacitors , bad L-pads, old ferro fluid... is very much not representing the speaker as designed. I own similar speakers (Genesis III's with the Philips mid range) in very good shape and they stand up to a lot of very good speakers like maggies and JBL, and Wharfedale and... I think if you got them working 100% your estimate of them would be drastically changed for the better.
kfa888
Addicted Member
That fluid, the surrounds and the cab sealing are all very critical to the end result.
hornbostel
Well-Known Member
I recently replaced the rubber surrounds on my EPI M110s (basically a EPI 150 but with vinyl veneer). One surround had developed a crack. The rubber was super thick and actually the compliance was not uniform around the woofer. Some of the rubber was very stiff and hard other areas were soft. I didn’t recognize this until I removed the rubber. I replaced with foam, basically Boston Acoustics type filleted surrounds. I removed the paper riser from the basket, otherwise the foam would sit too high.
These EPI M110s sound amazing after refoam and of course re-cap.
Audi0
Super Member
Should I really change the surrounds to foam?
I would rather stick to the rubber surrounds. As is I can order some right now a click away. How rare are the 410s compared to other genisis speakers.
Yea I got good compliance these surrounds are not stiff. It's the cracking and slight sag I've noticed.
I did find you need a vintage amp to run these. As the pairing is much better then a modern receiver.
I would rather stick to the rubber surrounds. As is I can order some right now a click away. How rare are the 410s compared to other genisis speakers.
Yea I got good compliance these surrounds are not stiff. It's the cracking and slight sag I've noticed.
I did find you need a vintage amp to run these. As the pairing is much better then a modern receiver.
Some have stated that the foam surrounds, being more compliant, help the woofer reach up to the tweeter's frequency response providing better mid-range. As these are three way speakers that logic would not apply. I do think, provided new rubber surrounds are equivalent to the originals, the new surrounds will be more pliant than what is currently on the speakers due to their age. Even rubber is not forever.
swechsler
Frog Whisperer
I can't give you an exact number, but I can tell you that I watch for Genesis and Epicure speakers on the used market (local and eBay), and I don't think I've seen a 410 more than once or twice in the several years I've been looking.
On the three-way- there's no reason not to stick with rubber surrounds. Any consideration about the woofer high-frequency extension is pretty moot in a system that hands off the midrange to another driver.
Regards,
Gordon.
hornbostel
Well-Known Member
I only went with foam on my M110's simply because it was cheap and readily available. I would add that the rubber on one woofer looked great, but the other one had developed a crack. As I removed the rubber from both woofers I noticed that the compliance of the rubber was not uniform but varied from one part of the surround to another. That is some parts of the rubber were very stiff while other parts seem 'normal'. I could imagine that even though the rubber 'looks' and 'feels' OK that it probably isn't.
Of course I can't do a side by side comparison, but I can't hear any difference with the foam relative to the rubber. The M110's still have very good low frequency punch, maybe even a bit more tight and faster with the foam.
Of course I can't do a side by side comparison, but I can't hear any difference with the foam relative to the rubber. The M110's still have very good low frequency punch, maybe even a bit more tight and faster with the foam.
Audi0
Super Member
The thing is trying to keep these speakers the way they left the factory. Modern rubber sounds are more stiff then these imho. The rubber on these are quite soft. Foam may be the way too go but they will never give that 100% original look. Wont going to foam though increase the efficiency of the woofers slightly?
Here are the serial numbers of mine. Too give an idea of how many could be out there. I'm assuming that it's the last 3 digits of that number. I don't think they made 10000 or 5000 matched pairs. Wierd in a way that instead of going like 750A - 750B to indicate a matched mirror imaged set its just a production serial number.
Here are the serial numbers of mine. Too give an idea of how many could be out there. I'm assuming that it's the last 3 digits of that number. I don't think they made 10000 or 5000 matched pairs. Wierd in a way that instead of going like 750A - 750B to indicate a matched mirror imaged set its just a production serial number.
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swechsler
Frog Whisperer
You'd think at least they'd have done something like odd serial numbers for left, even for right.
kfa888
Addicted Member
Yes. I really like how some of the bigger Pioneer receivers sound which EPI / Genesis. Those are very nice. Have them 100% working now? Recapped and sealed up?
