Everyone thinks they own a VPI...

[vinyl1]

It won't be cheap, but they are available on eBay and Audiogon, and sometimes on Craigslist.

Looking at sold items on eBay, I see:

Basis 1400 with Rega arm: $985
Rega RP3: $945
Rega Planar 25: $911
VPI Scout 1: $872
ClearAudio Concept: $810
Oracle Alexandria: $795

Naturally, you have to be careful in your purchases, but things do come on the market.

 

[lico]

There are still good deals in the vintage market, just as there are some new turntables that are worth the money.

Statements like "most new turntables are disposable crap" don't help the discussion.

Most threads around this place regarding anything new typically end up with a bunch of pile on posters talking about how much they paid for their high end vintage unit, and bashing new stuff. A lot of it has to do with bragging about price - not necessarily how things sound.

 

[spl225]

What he said. And why buy mediocre, damaged goods at double or triple the original selling price? Why not just buy a current turntable?

Why not just continue making logical fallacies? Google "strawman argument" and get back to us. :thmbsp:

Wow. Lately there's always some know-it-all who wants to say something insulting under the guise of being witty. Save the slick talk for your significant other if you have one. The original post mentioned dusty, scratched up turntables. There are inexpensive turntables currently sold that are well-reviewed, so buying a current turntable isn't a big deal. That's all I said. Where's that "logical fallacy" bs coming from? Stop.

 

[robertokray]

At the point when vintage values increasing crosses the slope of current models declining it makes sense for me to find a vintage table. Better still there are folks restoring the old stuff to better than new standards for not much more than a new $1500 table.

 

[lico]

I tend not to believe that if one paid 4 figures for a new turntable, they would be disappointed in comparison with finding a well groomed vintage TOTL unit at $200 instead.

Why? Because one is new product and the other is somebody else's old beater being moved on.

The party line around this place, however, is you need to spend at least a few thousand to get anything that would be equivalent to something back in the day in decent shape.

I might actually believe that statement if those making such claims have actually tried doing it, or could cite examples on what they are talking about. When pressed, they back off and post snarky remarks instead.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

lico,

Some of these new turntables available for today's budgets have issues in their design and in their engineering. What good is a budget table which can't even play a held piano note or guitar note without waver? If I have to buy as much money in upgrades to do that, it is a flawed design. The old $79 AR XA met or exceeded NAB requirements except start up time, was speed accurate and musical. Why can't a $1200 Rega do that without half that price invested in upgrades? My old 1976 Thorens TD 165 can do that, it was $200 new with arm (that arm's very good too). And it is stock too. Not dissing anybody, but some of us can hear these shortcomings. And the TD 165 for me does everything the Rega does well as fine. And this was the economy model mind you.

 

[Northwinds]

What he said was a table in the ballpark of $100-$200 vintage can beat a table in the ballpark of $1200. Assuming that includes arm and cart that seems a stretch. Buy what you want and like what you buy but tables from VPI, SOTA, Music Hall, Rega and other modest new offerings are hardly junk and in my over 25 yrs of experience (and im counting after my high school days when I was still into vinyl with mobile dj hobby and running my high school radio station...but before 20 I was just playing what was in front if me) with vintage tables, direct, belt, idler, linear, S arms, magnets and coils today's offerings trounce yesterdays.....I'm no newbie.
People can feel however they want....this is how I feel.

Don't put words in my mouth please... you named 4 brands out of how many TT's currently offered and levels of quality? How many people can afford/justify those prices for new? The dollar is worth far less then it was when the vintage stuff was out. Your not getting "more" for your money, your just paying the inflation. Manufacturing is cheaper and more streamlined and the markup is the result of higher costs for all the components and the cost of doing business. Everyone has their hand in the till

A tonearm is a tonearm regardless how people try to portray them, carbon fiber, wood, aluminum or whatever, its still just a tonearm and I doubt many people in a blind test could tell the difference provided the vintage table is setup right and has a damn good cart on it

Seems kind of funny that many vintage turntables hold their own against what's offered today. Consider the ancient Thorens TD-124... despite it's vintage looks, it will hold it's own against most of what is out there today

Technics SL-1200? Been around for a long time, I wonder why :scratch2:

Yamaha, Denon, Pioneer vintage offerings? It would seem they are still very popular for a good reason. They work and do what they are asked without spending a ton of money. The extra money is well served in investing in a good performing cartridge

Companies now are just walking in steps already made by past offerings

I hate when people say today's stuff is better then anything prior, a fancy acrylic plinth does not impress me. A $2k cart does not impress me when it has the same specs as an old dinosaur Shure. I don't care if it's made out of wood or has a fancy exotic cantilever or a diamond tip taken from the center of the Sun

My old Firebird will still stomp your Rolls Royce in a drag race for much cheaper

Goulden's mustard is still better then Grey Poopon (yeah I misspelled that deliberately )

When you look down your nose at what other people think and can afford, just remember there is someone with more money then you looking down their nose at your Rega, VPI whatever because their "better" TT costs $20k or more w/ it's 24k plated platter

 

[kmulkey]

For my ears...a VPI Scout sounds clearly better than a Pioneer PL-L1000, a Yamaha PX-3, a Denon DP-60L and a Mitsubishi LT-30...same cartridge, same phono pre. Maybe it was a synergy thing but there was no comparison...except for the automatic convenience. I do miss that.

 

[Northwinds]

For my ears...a VPI Scout sounds clearly better than a Pioneer PL-L1000, a Yamaha PX-3, a Denon DP-60L and a Mitsubishi LT-30...same cartridge, same phono pre. Maybe it was a synergy thing but there was no comparison...except for the automatic convenience. I do miss that.

Interesting point Ken, when I can afford a VPI Scout, I will let you know my impressions but I have a feeling I will never be able to afford one

Synergy is a key here, everything in your system dictates the end sound of the source, I agree on that point totally

There is an old saying: There is no Law of diminishing returns, you just ran out of money

 

[lico]

I find it interesting that less than 5 years ago nobody here was recommending buying a brand new Technics SL-1200 (before they quit making them) at $700. They were discontinued because of lack of sales.

Now you hear about old ones going for $4-500 routinely getting recommended as killer deals. Once again, I think much of this is about something being vintage and the hunt for things old, and not so much about the sound or the actual turntable in question. Things become valuable to some when you can't buy them new anymore, simple as that.

 

[for_p1]

Interesting point Ken, when I can afford a VPI Scout, I will let you know my impressions but I have a feeling I will never be able to afford one

Synergy is a key here, everything in your system dictates the end sound of the source, I agree on that point totally

There is an old saying: There is no Law of diminishing returns, you just ran out of money

Scout goes for close to $2000 now. What vintage comes at that price? Likely Yamaha GT-2000 and some Micro Seiki models. I would like to have side to side comparison between them.

 

[GPJeff]

I've never seen any hi-fi equipment at Goodwill or SA.

+1,000,000,000,000...

I've been to several stores in San Antonio, Houston, Beaumont/ Port Arthur, Rio Grande Valley (Texas) and found nothing hi-fi. At best, disposable all-in-one systems by off brands.

 

[lico]

lico,

Some of these new turntables available for today's budgets have issues in their design and in their engineering. What good is a budget table which can't even play a held piano note or guitar note without waver? If I have to buy as much money in upgrades to do that, it is a flawed design. The old $79 AR XA met or exceeded NAB requirements except start up time, was speed accurate and musical. Why can't a $1200 Rega do that without half that price invested in upgrades? My old 1976 Thorens TD 165 can do that, it was $200 new with arm (that arm's very good too). And it is stock too. Not dissing anybody, but some of us can hear these shortcomings. And the TD 165 for me does everything the Rega does well as fine. And this was the economy model mind you.

The key word is "some". A $1200 Rega may not play at speed, and at least you posted an example. Now are all $1200 new turntables that way? Highly doubtful. And there are budget turntables that do play at speed as well as an AR XA back in the day.

 

[GPJeff]

I find it interesting that less than 5 years ago nobody here was recommending buying a brand new Technics SL-1200 (before they quit making them) at $700. They were discontinued because of lack of sales.

Now you hear about old ones going for $4-500 routinely getting recommended as killer deals. Once again, I think much of this is about something being vintage and the hunt for things old, and not so much about the sound or the actual turntable in question. Things become valuable to some when you can't buy them new anymore, simple as that.

I think that the vinyl sales growth may be a result of more people showing interest in the format. The SL-1200 MKxx is probably the most recognizable turntable to the general public.

 

[kmulkey]

Scout goes for close to $2000 now. What vintage comes at that price? Likely Yamaha GT-2000 and some Micro Seiki models. I would like to have side to side comparison between them.

Yes that is true. Just fur clarity...I got my Scout 7 years ago for $1200 and paid as much as $400-500 for the PL-L1000 and DP-60L so it wasn't an totally crazy comparison.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[KentTeffeteller]

Point well taken. I love the VPI Scout, the J.A. Michell turntables, the Linn LP 12 is lovely if finicky. Just to name some belt drive new tables I like. The Pro-Ject models when you get to middle of the line are good.

 

[for_p1]

Yes that is true. Just fur clarity...I got my Scout 7 years ago for $1200 and paid as much as $400-500 for the PL-L1000 and DP-60L so it wasn't an totally crazy comparison.


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I didn't say that this is completely wrong comparison. But now we are talking about today's prices. 7 years ago you could have pl-l1000 or Denon for $200 on-line, even less locally.

 

[drum2live]

It has gotten a little out of hand (pricing on some used stuff). Turntables that would have struggled to bring $50 prior to the LP resurgence are bringing 4x that amount now. Many times, they really aren't that great of decks. I remember being at a local Mid-Fi shop in 1993 and purchasing a Mitsubishi LT-30 with a Koetsu Rosewood on it for $100. I eventually sold the turntable because I found a better sounding belt-drive and I used the Rosewood til the stylus was shot. I couldn't afford to rebuild it so I sold it. I sold the LT-30 BEFORE the LP resurgence and got around $300 out of it. That table now would bring 2x - 2 1/2x that amount now.

 

[iLUVanalog]

A table that costs $1200 should absolutely play at speed...there is no excuse for it not doing so.

 

[Frank Sol]

I find it interesting that less than 5 years ago nobody here was recommending buying a brand new Technics SL-1200 (before they quit making them) at $700.

On August 20, 2010 I received a confirmation email from KAB of my SL1200 mk2 new purchase

I bought it 100% because of info I gathered from AK, AA and a couple other websites