explain what a clamp or weight does please

[barkerd]

other than the obvious : flattening a warped record to improve tracking ..... what is the theory of what is going on that makes people say they hear a difference on flat vinyl? I'll be open and say I suspect some placebo effect is going on here .. but my mind is open to some objective physics... I've just never heard it explained scientifically

 

[Urchinn]

Great question...I have often thought the same thing (placebo insanity). Please, clampers (Clampetts?), explain the dynamics of weighing a disc down.

 

[Bob_in_OKC]

The flattening effect is actually rather limited, in my experience. The clamp might help a little in that regard by stabilizing the record, but I don't see much flattening going on. The benefit is more an issue of using the platter's mass and ability to resist resonance to stabilize the record. It's not a placebo. It might be questionable as to whether it's better or worse, but the effect of coupling the record to the platter is there.

 

[Dr Tinear]

Think of the record as a large microphone diaphragm that can pick up sound from the room and feed it into the stylus. Then think of how much less that 12" diameter diaphragm can vibrate if it's clamped or weighted down to the turntable platter. That, in a nutshell, is what a record clamp or weight will do for you.

 

[chadnliz]

The reason why some may not hear the benefit is not an issue of a clamp or weight its the platter, if you have a thin and somewhat hollow platter (many mass market tables are very light and very thin) then there isnt much to gain but if you have a solid platter that many tables offer your album in affect becomes what that platter is. On a table like a SOTA the album when clamped becomes a almost 20lb disc immune to vibration thus strengthening its sound performance.

 

[gusten]

If the record should have some flattening I think an outer ring must be used.
Just putting a weight that press around the spindle does flatten to a very small extent. IMO it does not couple the record to the platter either. What it will normally do is raising the record at the periphery.

But if it should flatten the record there is a large benefit in keeping the VTF constant. Also in avoiding resonances that will continously occur when playing records that are not flat.
gusten

 

[Rybeam]

I have tried several home made weights and clamps on various tables over the years. Never heard any difference and came to the conclusion that it only adds stress to the platter bearing. Not a desirable attribute in my book.

 

[Bob_in_OKC]

Whether or not you're adding a significant amount of stress on the platter bearing would seem to depend on the bearing and how much weight you're adding. The difference in the weight of Pro-Ject's glass platter as compared to their acrylic platter is around 1.5 pounds and yet the subplatter design doesn't change.

 

[beej]

I have this one:

http://www.ttweights.com/catalog/item/6997332/7020312.htm

which I managed to get at a somewhat reduced price.

I've experimented with it using a number of turntable/cartridge/platter mat combinations. In all cases, to my ears, the weight does make a difference, albeit in many cases small, in what I call, for lack of a better word, 'definition' in both highs and lows. Where I have found that the weight seems to make the most significant difference (and the difference is clearly audible in my judgment) is on my Dual 1229 (massive platter), with a cork mat (1/8" thick DIY). No matter the cart or the LP (Sports, Hello I Must Be Going, Love Over Gold), the presence of the weight seems to 'Zen' the LP to the platter.

My 2 cents.

 

[scottyh777]

other than the obvious : flattening a warped record to improve tracking ..... what is the theory of what is going on that makes people say they hear a difference on flat vinyl? I'll be open and say I suspect some placebo effect is going on here .. but my mind is open to some objective physics... I've just never heard it explained scientifically

I only use them because they look cool

 

[portnoy]

I have this one:

http://www.ttweights.com/catalog/item/6997332/7020312.htm

which I managed to get at a somewhat reduced price.

I've experimented with it using a number of turntable/cartridge/platter mat combinations. In all cases, to my ears, the weight does make a difference, albeit in many cases small, in what I call, for lack of a better word, 'definition' in both highs and lows. Where I have found that the weight seems to make the most significant difference (and the difference is clearly audible in my judgment) is on my Dual 1229 (massive platter), with a cork mat (1/8" thick DIY). No matter the cart or the LP (Sports, Hello I Must Be Going, Love Over Gold), the presence of the weight seems to 'Zen' the LP to the platter.

My 2 cents.

I have a Dual 1249 with a massive aluminium Platter -- So you think a Mat of some sort will reduce the audible rumble i get???

Wayne

 

[beej]

I have a Dual 1249 with a massive aluminium Platter -- So you think a Mat of some sort will reduce the audible rumble i get???

Wayne

For little $$, it's worth the effort. I picked up the cork for $3 in a craft shop, traced out the mat using the OE mat from Dual as a template and trimmed it using an exacto knife. For me, even without the weight, there is a difference. For $3 and 15 minutes, what have you got to lose?

Good luck.

 

[JohnVF]

If the record should have some flattening I think an outer ring must be used.
Just putting a weight that press around the spindle does flatten to a very small extent. IMO it does not couple the record to the platter either. What it will normally do is raising the record at the periphery.

But if it should flatten the record there is a large benefit in keeping the VTF constant. Also in avoiding resonances that will continously occur when playing records that are not flat.
gusten

Depends on the turntable. On my VPI, there's a foam washer around the spindle. When you put the record on, it doesn't contact the platter all the way around at first, as it's held up in the middle by the foam washer/gasket/whatever you call it. Then you screw the clamp down (the spindle is threaded). The clamp is designed to push the outer edge of the record down first, which creates a vacuum seal, really locking the record to the platter, which is nearly 20lbs on my table. I have records that were too warped to play on other tables that are no problem at all on this one. It works very well, and is simpler in reality than I think I'm making it sound. I've also used a clamp on my Empire to good effect, though it wasn't as useful as it is on the VPI.

 

[poppinfresh]

other than the obvious : flattening a warped record to improve tracking ..... what is the theory of what is going on that makes people say they hear a difference on flat vinyl? I'll be open and say I suspect some placebo effect is going on here .. but my mind is open to some objective physics... I've just never heard it explained scientifically

The only difference I found with a clamp was the thickness of my wallet shrinking.:thumbsdn: Audio improvement is an urban myth IMO

 

[marc mc]

other than the obvious : flattening a warped record to improve tracking ..... what is the theory of what is going on that makes people say they hear a difference on flat vinyl? I'll be open and say I suspect some placebo effect is going on here .. but my mind is open to some objective physics... I've just never heard it explained scientifically

Are you for real? Cripes you really do miss SR.

What TT do you use?

marc mc

 

[markd51]

The only difference I found with a clamp was the thickness of my wallet shrinking.:thumbsdn: Audio improvement is an urban myth IMO

There are of course different school's of thought on this. Yours is not necessarily incorrect, so I'm not going to turn around and say you are incorrect.

Dependent upon design, there may be all around benefits, then some benefits, with some improvements, and as well some detractions, and then maybe no noticable improvements at all?

The ears have it, what you hear, (or don't hear), another may, or may not hear.

Micro resonances can occur, its almost like taking a table, and sliding it across the floor. if the Table-Legs are better damped, those audible screeching noises would be less.

The same also applies to Tonearms. With vibrations traveling from the Stylus-Cartridge, they travel through the Tonearm, back and forth, and actually back into the Stylus. This causes smearing of the sound. The more smearing that will occur, this will impact high fidelity, coherence.

Many direct drives by design have relatively lightweight platters, but I believe enhancement can be had by maybe not the coupling of record to platter, but by coupling record to a particular platter mat.

Many as such, like particular mats, like the Herbies, and the effectiveness of coupling to such a mat can-may have variances, both good, and bad. It's then up to the listener to decide whether or not they like such influences?
Mark

 

[gusten]

Depends on the turntable. On my VPI, there's a foam washer around the spindle. When you put the record on, it doesn't contact the platter all the way around at first, as it's held up in the middle by the foam washer/gasket/whatever you call it. Then you screw the clamp down (the spindle is threaded). The clamp is designed to push the outer edge of the record down first, which creates a vacuum seal, really locking the record to the platter, which is nearly 20lbs on my table. I have records that were too warped to play on other tables that are no problem at all on this one. It works very well, and is simpler in reality than I think I'm making it sound. I've also used a clamp on my Empire to good effect, though it wasn't as useful as it is on the VPI.

Yes I know this design, I am now and then using a similar. It is beneficial in making the records reasonably flat. This can also be done with a weight to work quite good, but it needs a washer of the right thickness around the spindle and a contact from the weight on the record only from it´s periphery.
gusten

 

[marc mc]

There are of course different school's of thought on this. Yours is not necessarily incorrect, so I'm not going to turn around and say you are incorrect.

Dependent upon design, there may be all around benefits, then some benefits, with some improvements, and as well some detractions, and then maybe no noticable improvements at all?

The ears have it, what you hear, (or don't hear), another may, or may not hear.

Micro resonances can occur, its almost like taking a table, and sliding it across the floor. if the Table-Legs are better damped, those audible screeching noises would be less.

The same also applies to Tonearms. With vibrations traveling from the Stylus-Cartridge, they travel through the Tonearm, back and forth, and actually back into the Stylus. This causes smearing of the sound. The more smearing that will occur, this will impact high fidelity, coherence.

Many direct drives by design have relatively lightweight platters, but I believe enhancement can be had by maybe not the coupling of record to platter, but by coupling record to a particular platter mat.

Many as such, like particular mats, like the Herbies, and the effectiveness of coupling to such a mat can-may have variances, both good, and bad. It's then up to the listener to decide whether or not they like such influences?
Mark

God Mark you are a far better man than me. 20 years ago I would have had the patience to try to explain some of the basics of mats and clamps to someone. But at this point in audio history its just too much work. Like putting an 9 X 12 idea in a 3 X 5 mind.

marc mc

 

[Big Bill]

Easy!

 

[JohnVF]

The only difference I found with a clamp was the thickness of my wallet shrinking.:thumbsdn: Audio improvement is an urban myth IMO

Again, depends upon the turntable. What turntable are you using? It may just be that the design of your particular table doesn't lend itself to having the LP coupled to the platter. That doesn't mean the results will be the same on every table.