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Full range vs two-way or three-way
- Thread starter Dallas84
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Tristen
Active Member
TerryO
Super Member
and with an added super tweeter it can add reinforcement to the highs
So with a sub and a supertweeter it's actually, for all intents and purposes a three way configuration. My whole point from the beginning has been the approach, that the fullrange guys often take, which is to let a single driver do as much of the mid, or vocal, range as possible without a crossover.
Having heard several hundred of these "fullrange" varients over the years, I can say that they can be quite nice sounding, but that's my opinion and YMMV.
As I evidently don't have anything to really add to this thread, I'll take my leave.
Best Regards,
TerryO
enitsugua
Member
"The number of drivers has no bearing on the frequency response of a speaker. There are examples of multi way speakers that are out performed by single driver types."
Kyle, I am aware, which is why TYPICALLY is used in my post.
"Power handling has nothing to do with how loud a particular driver is with regards to bass and treble speakers. A driver that is 86dB 1 watt 1 meter will require more power to produce the same volume than a driver that is 95 dB 1 watt 1 meter."
Compare speakers of the same sensitivity, then compare power handling. Multiple drivers typically allow for a higher power handling, or better headroom.
"Most single driver speakers will image much better than most three way speakers because they don't have the influence of the crossover.
There are some incredibly cheap three ways and some incredibly expensive single driver speakers and vice versa. Cost doesn't seem to be related to the number of drivers in the box."
I disagree. I have not heard a single driver outperform a three way speaker at the high-end level, with 'Hi-Fidelity' (not by personal preference) as the approach. Some may be 'sweeter' than others, but not necessarily honest and accurate.
Cheap or not it depends. Do compare speakers whether 3 way or two way of at the same reference point- or same brand.
Hi-Fidelity is like being faithful to your wife despite temptations isn't it ") ?You may like the sound of something else, then there's nothing to compare, and it becomes subjective. In a Hi-Fidelity system, it's about referencing to a transparent system where the recording is most accurately presented. In a Preference-type of system, its about personal taste and it becomes subjective.
While the cross comparison happens all the time, it helps when you know the difference in sound before deciding. Tubes have a inherent hormonic distortion that ppl like-TYPICALLY. They usually don't have a flat frequency response, but sound thicker on the mid and highs, even high-bass. Enthusiasts enjoy them, and buy them, change the tubes and such. Listening to more details, and experiencing more depth. But in any frequency curve, when that happens, it ain't gonna be 'neutral'. Speakers have that trait too.
That's being objective.
Where sub is concerned, my opinion is that it helps with the bass response. Imaging will be better if the bass came from 2 speakers instead of 3 or 4. The position of your sub will somehow be the position where the drums or double bass, or pipe organ will be in your imaging. Sometimes, by 'helping' with the bass, the 3 way speaker performs better on the mid and highs, when set up properly.
marc mc
Super Member
True. But unfortunately the members that think subs are useless for anything but explosions, have only ever heard subs that are useless for anything but explosions.
To many have hauled their "One thump wonder sub" up from the basement and plugged it into their main system to see what it sounds like. The results were predictably horrible and they feel compeled to share their sub findings every chance they get.
marc mc
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dnewma04
The Healer
Yes, I do. You could present me with speakers capable of 12hz extension at 115 db and I would tell you unequivocally that they would be improved by a subwoofer unless you room had the dimensions of a very large movie theater or a small concert venue.
marc mc
Super Member
Tristen
Active Member
I don't know about the rest of the people, but for me it all depends on listening space.... I don't have he room to build the couple jherico horns that i've been eyeballing; i need something more compact, which means not relying on the speakerbox so much for bass extension as much as relying on a driver dedicated to reproducing those low frequencies... chances are, as soon as i own my own space i'll have my (soon to be made) three-ways+sub for my tv and videogaming and a set of backmuonted horns for my turntable...
like everyone says (and i say about computer OS's all the time) every speaker has an intended purpose that it excels at, and right now, a multi-way system excels at not taking up my entire room for a pair of speakers, hehe.
Sunday, I took my four-year-old daughter to a local high school's production of Seussical the Musical (which, essentially, put Horton Hears a Who to music - speaking of hearing things no one else does...).
Anyhow, the production featured close to a full orchestra in the pit, including a concert bass drum (one o' them big suckers that's like four feet in diameter). The sound of that bass made me glad that a) I have a subwoofer, and b) I took the time (a lot of it) to dial it in properly. There was a physical sensation with each beat of that drum that went way beyond the auditory response that was missing from my system.
Subwoofer guys talk about pressurizing their listening rooms, and it's that sensation that I think I experienced listening to live orchestral music. That "whoomp" feeling.
My mains are three-ways (B&W DM603 s3), and those fall firmly, I believe, into the realm of mid-fi. B&W supposedly engineers minimalist crossovers and, accordingly, enables most of their speakers for bi-amplification. I don't know how much of that is true and how much is just marketing speak (and I know there are lots of B&W haters around, but that's another issue).
The speakers are rated at 42 Hz to 22 or 23 KHz + or - 3 db. They do a really nice job with music and with movies, but adding that subwoofer (an Earthquake SuperNova MK5-15) really adds a physical presence to the music that wasn't there before, especially at high listening levels. The deep bass notes, for instance, at the beginning of Pink Floyd's DSofM's Time, hit you and make you feel like your the meat in a sandwich that someone's pressing together with their hands. It's not boomy at all. It's the pressure in the room. It's just catching the lower end of notes and fleshing them out.
I have both two-way and three-way speakers in my system, but within my budget, I think that three-ways give the best audio performance. That's my limited experience. My B&Ws image like crazy. When I run them in stereo, they do an amazing job of putting stuff right in the middle. So much so that you'd swear that I was running the center channel and might, like me, occasionally feel compelled to get up and listen to make sure you're listening in stereo.
Similarly,
Anyhow, the production featured close to a full orchestra in the pit, including a concert bass drum (one o' them big suckers that's like four feet in diameter). The sound of that bass made me glad that a) I have a subwoofer, and b) I took the time (a lot of it) to dial it in properly. There was a physical sensation with each beat of that drum that went way beyond the auditory response that was missing from my system.
Subwoofer guys talk about pressurizing their listening rooms, and it's that sensation that I think I experienced listening to live orchestral music. That "whoomp" feeling.
My mains are three-ways (B&W DM603 s3), and those fall firmly, I believe, into the realm of mid-fi. B&W supposedly engineers minimalist crossovers and, accordingly, enables most of their speakers for bi-amplification. I don't know how much of that is true and how much is just marketing speak (and I know there are lots of B&W haters around, but that's another issue).
The speakers are rated at 42 Hz to 22 or 23 KHz + or - 3 db. They do a really nice job with music and with movies, but adding that subwoofer (an Earthquake SuperNova MK5-15) really adds a physical presence to the music that wasn't there before, especially at high listening levels. The deep bass notes, for instance, at the beginning of Pink Floyd's DSofM's Time, hit you and make you feel like your the meat in a sandwich that someone's pressing together with their hands. It's not boomy at all. It's the pressure in the room. It's just catching the lower end of notes and fleshing them out.
I have both two-way and three-way speakers in my system, but within my budget, I think that three-ways give the best audio performance. That's my limited experience. My B&Ws image like crazy. When I run them in stereo, they do an amazing job of putting stuff right in the middle. So much so that you'd swear that I was running the center channel and might, like me, occasionally feel compelled to get up and listen to make sure you're listening in stereo.
Similarly,
Given the currently available speakers, IMHO the most elegant way to the best sounding system is to use an "augmented" full-range driver. In other words, a full range driver with a supplemental woofer crossed over low and a supertweeter crossed over high. This minimizes the ill effects of the crossovers in the range our ears are most sensitive to. So I guess technically, I'm in the 3 way camp, but philosophically, I lean to the 1 driver camp. As stated by others, for a small, low volume system, a full-ranger can be quite satisfying.
mhardy6647
Lunatic Member
I'd opine that you're in the "let's get the midrange right" camp - a fine place to be (I would further opine).
that would be great to hear ill have to try that sometime find a decent fullrange speaker and try to make a 3 way with 1 fullrange driver and then use suptertweeters and a subwoofer to complement the lows and highs. kinda like a 3 way but as stated you wont need as much crossover work.
No disrespect intended, but isn't that a three-way speaker?
I presume that you'd be using some sort of external crossover, though, or would you essentially tri-amp that set-up?
I guess I don't know. What other purpose does a subwoofer serve? Even the best subwoofers I have ever heard were used for this single purpose. What other purpose would they serve?