• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Fulton Musical Industries

Brian Beck said:
In 2013 I was relying on a schematic of the 80 that had been drawn by another well-known Fultonite, whom I shall not name here :no:. It turns out that he got it wrong. I was repeating bad info. It never made sense to me. Speakers with first-order crossovers, such as the 80, must have their drivers wired in the same polarity. In case any of you have seen that schematic floating around, it also shows the tweeters incorrectly identified as Peerless MT20s. They are the MT-225s. In the 4 years since that post (which I'd forgotten about) I have opened and/or measured most of the five pairs of 80s that I own. They are wired as I wrote above in post #175. That is, to repeat: the Rola woofer and the two paralleled Peerless tweeters are wired in polarity relative to each other, but the terminal strip on the back panel is wired in reverse (relative to all the drivers). Just to make sure I wasn't going crazy, I just did a simple polarity test by connecting a AA cell across the terminals, an easy check. With the + and - of the battery connected briefly to the + and - of the terminal strip, respectively, the woofer popped inward. "Outta phase".

Anyway, Sk8ter, I'm not sure how your line of questioning relates to your using RTR bookshelf speakers in the midrange instead of 80s. Out of curiosity some years ago, I bought a pair of RTR Series II-A bookshelf speakers that are a bit larger than 80s. They use the same Rola woofer and similar, if not identical Peerless tweeters, arrayed differently on the front panel. I A-B'd them side-by-side with 80s. The RTRs were not even close in sound quality to the 80s, sounding colored and closed-in, as I recall. Hope yours are not this model. The most important part of the J Modular is the "midrange", the 80. I am not as warm on the Premiere line as the Js, except for the beefier bass.

View attachment 974765
Click to expand...


Hello Brian, sorry I have been away , Nope I am not using that particular cabinet, I am experimenting with the smaller 2 way rtr had for a time I also think Mr Fulton's first FMI 80 "single tweeter" was this , the tweeter is the same unit fulton used for the middle forward firing tweeter in the premiere an excellent speaker in by itself :) they came with either the 80 rola woofer or and updated more powerful magnet alnico woofer :) the woofer does not play as hi as the rola but IMO its lower in distortion In ways.

The entire idea has always been to make up 2 different systems using the large premiere bottoms with differing tops :)

anyways so many things I have discovered that I would like to share.


Lawrence
 
I have never seen the single tweeter version of the 80 except in pictures. I believe its tweeter is the bigger brother to the Peerless MT-225, the MT-250/MT-25. The Peerless response curves show peaks in the upper octaves of the larger driver that the smoother MT-225 doesn't have. But the MT25 can handle lower frequencies better than its little brother, so Fulton had to double up the MT-225s in the later version of the 80s, and the results were legendary. The MT-25 is still an excellent driver though. I have a rare pair of Fulton FMI-120s that use these tweeters with 5" Philips "whizzer-cone" midrange drivers, and the same hefty 12" woofers found in the J Modular woofer. It's not as special as the 80, but it's not bad.

Yes, please do share with us your discoveries.IMG_2906.JPG
 
Picture 001.jpg Welcome back Brian, most of the discoveries were already disclosed RTR 2 way with the IMO lower distortion "larger magnet" "larger voice coil" woofer here is a "clue picture"

the other discoveries probably do not pertain to most people as i am using my modded HK430 the discoveries are in there :)
 
Like I said its the center forward firing tweeter in the premiere tweeter array, now how do you think he found out about it?


Brian are you using your J's?, I was there with Thomas to evaluate them before they shipped to you :) yours sound more like premieres, Thomas's J's sound different but both very musical speakers non the less.
 
I have the Js in a spare bedroom as a second system. They do sound very musical. Better than the vast majority of expensive modern systems, truly. I drive them with a sweet HK430 that Tom, our mutual friend and Fulton expert, and I modded together. At present that system has been slid into the adjacent closet to make the spare bedroom a bedroom again. Yes, I am married.:)

Since you asked about my speaker use, my Fulton history has been discontinuous since the seventies: In about 1976, I acquired new FMI-100s and FMI-6 tweeters (Fulton-modded RTR ESL-6s, for those who don't know). We called this configuration the "Mini-J". I used that set-up with ARC electronics for years. I heard the Js extensively at my dealer and I wanted them, but as a college student I couldn't afford them. Later, after a brief and unfulfilling dalliance with Chartwell LS3/5As, I switched to Quad ESL-63s with my own subwoofers, and used them happily for many decades. I still have both of those speakers. In later years I have been using Apogee Divas, which are in another league (not a topic for this thread). I am about to acquire a pair of the original Apogee Full Range speakers, which may be my final set of speakers. But one never knows....

Still, I always wanted to have a set of Js, not to replace the Apogees, but for the "collection" and for a second system. So about five years ago our friend Tom lovingly refurbished a pair of J woofer cabinets for me, the ones you heard. I already had a nice pair of 80s and the my-own-refurbed ESL tweeters waiting to join the woofers. I installed an identical NOS set of the 12" drivers into the woofer cabinets to replace the working, but drooped, original woofers. So the Js can now sing about as well as any can in the year 2017.

Over the years, I also collected numerous Fulton bookshelf speakers, just for curiosity and kicks. I have joked about putting together a 9.2 channel home theater system using all Fulton speakers. Hey, I just might do it. I am already using a pair of 80s for TV sound. They are very articulate, which is good for the mumbled dialog that seems to be the practice of actors these days.
 
Yes Thomas busted his balls and spent lots of time on your J's :) you sir should feel very lucky/privileged, if you have not seen pictures of what he completed in his restoration inside the crossover that would be a shame, Thomas and I had many conversations with his frustrations to make yours as perfect as possible, I believe he actually re-did some of what he finished because he was not satisfied :) you probably have the Newest pair anywhere!. Thomas was one of my Fulton Mentors but I have moved on from his mod's to the 430 that IMO plays much better in the upper mid-range and hi end response this all without adding any distortion to speak or hear of :) you being very technical will understand right away, call me if you want the info.

Fulton Speakers really do come from music first :))

I have a good friend when I lived in Indiana that has a very expensive system well over 200k including the room that he specifically built for audio, his speakers are the middle Apogees meaning they have long mid/tweeter ribbon if that makes sense these have bran new panels from Canada.... he tells me, drives them with AR ref 600's and sometimes Krell monos, they sound very nice have a certain mid-range sparkle but IMO will not hold a candle to a good J or better yet my P12's even with my puny 25watt amplifier :) as Mr fulton has said in the past, its the darn amplifiers that has always been the issue interfacing between his speakers.
 
Mystery Speakers: Omega Model 120. Same as FMI 80's ???. I was in a Savers store recently and saw some speakers that looked kind of familiar. Very heavy mini-monitors with a nice (but old) Walnut veneer. They were $15 for the pair so I went ahead and bought them. The front had old-style speaker cloth and an emblem on the bottom with an Omega sign and the letters AP. When I brought them home guess what - exact same dimensions as my FMI 80's - including the front 'bezel'. And the connections were the exact same position on the back of the speakers and had the exact same rectangular trim piece. I did a little research but couldn't find much on the web - but I did discover that these speakers were from the late 70's or early 80's and were made by a guy named Donald L. Kliewer (later made DLK speakers) in Northern Minnesota. Did Bob know Donald? Did they get together to have the cabinets built to save money? Or did Donald sell Bob excess cabinets or visa-versa? Does anyone know??? The speaker grill is attached pretty solidly to the speaker and I didn't want to break them trying to remove, so I can't tell you what the drivers look like. But they sound pretty good - a little more forward and brighter than the Fultons, but very musical. I suspect different drivers - certainly the tweeter (there is just one) is different. There is a DLK thread - I will post there also - maybe someone will know something about it.

Marty
 

Attachments

  • P5170496.JPG
    P5170496.JPG
    70.7 KB · Views: 57
  • P5170497.JPG
    P5170497.JPG
    71.4 KB · Views: 57
Last edited:
Without pulling that grill it’s hard to say.

I am quite confident that RTR was the OEM for Fulton’s speaker designs, at least for his bookshelf speakers. RTR was also the OEM for many well-known speakers, including Infinity’s smaller speakers.

It is very possible, if not likely, that DLK contracted with RTR for something similar to the 80 using the same cabinet. The single tweeter is similar to the very first FMI-80s which used one Peerless MT-25 cone tweeter. Later units (most of them) employed two smaller Peerless MT-225 tweeters.

If the same Rola woofer is used in the DLK as in the 80, that is a good thing, because that is a very natural-sounding driver.
 
Last edited:
Interesting - I knew Fulton used RTR electrostatics - but didn't know he used them as OEM for his bookshelf speakers. Old RTR's that I have seen always looked 'cheaper' than Fulton speakers - with cheaper veneers (like the Fulton 60's). Also though it was interesting that DLK was also from Minnesota.

Marty
 
Marty,

I couldn’t read the specification sticker on the back panel, at least not on my iPhone. It was too blurry. Can you take a close-up and post it?
 
Thanks. I’m betting that you have the 8” Rola woofer plus the Peerless MT-25 tweeter. The MT-25 is nominally 2.5 inches but the basket would measure close to the 3” shown on the sticker. If the crossover is the same, this might be the same speaker as the very earliest and rare FMI-80s, which J Gordon Holt reviewed and loved (too).
 
Last edited:
Fulton used RTR for electrostatic panels with modified crossovers (also used by Infinity)
Peerless for cone tweeters
Rola for 8" woofers
RTR woofers for 10" and 12"
And of course, his own crazy crossover designs :)
 
Last edited:
But my hunch is that RTR OEM’d the assembly and cabinetry of the whole loudspeaker for FMI, as well as for Infinity, Crown, ESS and many, many others. At one point RTR was shipping 10,000 speakers a month, most being OEM having other brand names. In addition to the ESL drivers they also manufactured cone drivers such as the 10” and 12” drivers used in the J Modular.
 
Last edited:
Nicolelynn52 said:
I am the one that purchased those J’s. I used to own a pair P10’s. I sold them to Tom a number of years ago. I am looking to get another pair of Premieres again.
Click to expand...

so sorry ...you should have kept them p10's they sound very good, but thats why Thomas bought them, I know the entire story :)

good luck finding a good pair anymore :(

Lawrence
 
Last edited:
Sk8ter said:
so sorry ...you should have kept them p10's they sound very good, but thats why Thomas bought them, I know the entire story :)

good luck finding a good pair anymore :(

Lawrence
Click to expand...

Hi Lawrence;

I have regretted selling my P10’s everyday. Unfortunately I was moving into someone’s home and there was no room. They were very good speaker system. I bought them new in 1980. Other than the J’s I also have FMI 60’s, 80’s, 100’s, Fulton Nunances and Fulton Little Maestro’s.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom