Garrard 301/401 owners club!

[jeremyjustic]

Well done Jeremy. I wish I could contribute more, but in due time. I just got my 301 up and running several days ago. Many, MANY, bumps in the road starting with the plinth, and down the home stretch a bad, new Denon 103R cart. I'm now using a loaner, a low brow Shure, probably circa 70's or 80's and most likely just a step up from the finishing nail like styli that the old Edison Cylinder players used a hundred years ago. So, I am very excited for my new 103R to arrive because this 301 sounds so amazing with this cheezy cartridge that I can't even fathom how nice it will sound with the 103R and SUT.

I am fortunate to be in possession of two grease bearing models (cream and hammertone), and one cream oil bearing. Last night I listened to Frampton, "Frampton Comes Alive" and I could swear Pete was behind my big ol JBL's with his guitar and talk box! In the next few days I plan on giving the Vibrapods a try. Not that I have any issues with resonance. Geez, a 50 some odd pound plinth almost entirely negates any resonance issues

In due course I will graduate to one of the Nouveau Riche tonearms. Perhaps a Schick or Schroeder. Boy, I sure hope my application to McDonald's lands me position. I'll need a second job to afford my lofty wish list. OK, TC signing out!

PS I only have the one burl maple plinth. I've just shown two different 301's on it.

Welcome! wow three 301's! those hammertone greese bearing model is beautiful.the plinth is also very,very nice looking, did you make it yourself? it is a bummer to hear your troubles with the dl103r, I am using one now on my 401 and love it!

so how do you feel the greese bearing compares to the oil bearing? can you hear the difference between the two? thanks for contributing to the thread!

That is a gorgeous plinth. The Jelco looks very cool with the gray 301, perfect match.

(I don't belong in this thread, I'm just lurking and drooling all over it)

dont worry , everyone is welcomed! I agree that the jelco looks great with the 301. I'd love to get one of the all black ones, drop dead sexy!

 

[Dowj15k]

Well Jeremy. Not sure what you will think of this. I purchased my cream oil bearing 301 first, from a U.K. owner, and had it sent right to Audio Grail to have it gone through. It's all original, i.e. paint, escutcheons, levers, etc. Motor tear down sonic clean and rebuild, new springs, levers cadmium removed and zinc plated, etc. Truth be told, while I was working on getting the plinth completed and purchasing various other components, Jelco, 103R, SUT, all before the plinth was completed, I found the Gray Hammertone. So, I purchased the Hammertone, and have never fired up the cream oil bearing. In essence, it's a virtually new unit with not so much as a minute of time on it, other than the motor burn in by Audio Grail. Once I get the Vibrapods under the plinth I will mount the cream 301 and see how she sounds. I can say this much, I rather doubt it can sound as good as the Hammertone. Even with a low grade cart, it sounds stupendous. I thought about the black tonearm, but I wanted a contrast with my piano black recesses plinth, and to me, a black tonearm, while uber cool, would have blended in like a chameleon.

 

[kt66brooklyn]

Well Jeremy. Not sure what you will think of this. I purchased my cream oil bearing 301 first, from a U.K. owner, and had it sent right to Audio Grail to have it gone through. It's all original, i.e. paint, escutcheons, levers, etc. Motor tear down sonic clean and rebuild, new springs, levers cadmium removed and zinc plated, etc. Truth be told, while I was working on getting the plinth completed and purchasing various other components, Jelco, 103R, SUT, all before the plinth was completed, I found the Gray Hammertone. So, I purchased the Hammertone, and have never fired up the cream oil bearing. In essence, it's a virtually new unit with not so much as a minute of time on it, other than the motor burn in by Audio Grail. Once I get the Vibrapods under the plinth I will mount the cream 301 and see how she sounds. I can say this much, I rather doubt it can sound as good as the Hammertone. Even with a low grade cart, it sounds stupendous. I thought about the black tonearm, but I wanted a contrast with my piano black recesses plinth, and to me, a black tonearm, while uber cool, would have blended in like a chameleon.

I've had a similar experience, I found a 401 after my 301 was rehabbed. I much preferred the sound of the 401, so it stays, while the 301 was sold. The only bummer for me is that, in a cash crunch recently, I sold my SME 3012R. Luckily, I still have the 3009 version of the same arm and a humble Rega which is actually quite great with the 401.

Your system looks great! I'm sure it sounds unreal too.

 

[jeremyjustic]

Well Jeremy. Not sure what you will think of this. I purchased my cream oil bearing 301 first, from a U.K. owner, and had it sent right to Audio Grail to have it gone through. It's all original, i.e. paint, escutcheons, levers, etc. Motor tear down sonic clean and rebuild, new springs, levers cadmium removed and zinc plated, etc. Truth be told, while I was working on getting the plinth completed and purchasing various other components, Jelco, 103R, SUT, all before the plinth was completed, I found the Gray Hammertone. So, I purchased the Hammertone, and have never fired up the cream oil bearing. In essence, it's a virtually new unit with not so much as a minute of time on it, other than the motor burn in by Audio Grail. Once I get the Vibrapods under the plinth I will mount the cream 301 and see how she sounds. I can say this much, I rather doubt it can sound as good as the Hammertone. Even with a low grade cart, it sounds stupendous. I thought about the black tonearm, but I wanted a contrast with my piano black recesses plinth, and to me, a black tonearm, while uber cool, would have blended in like a chameleon.

dont feel bad man , we all know what thats like, I had my 401 in boxes for at least 6 months before I got it up and running.

so are the greese bearing models generally considered sonically superior to the oil bearing models? when you do get the oil bearing up and running I (and I am sure everyone else too) would love to hear your comparisons of the two.

I've had a similar experience, I found a 401 after my 301 was rehabbed. I much preferred the sound of the 401, so it stays, while the 301 was sold. The only bummer for me is that, in a cash crunch recently, I sold my SME 3012R. Luckily, I still have the 3009 version of the same arm and a humble Rega which is actually quite great with the 401.

Your system looks great! I'm sure it sounds unreal too.

Wow that's interesting. What is it you liked about the 401 over the 301? I have never read a comparison of the 401 vs 301. I assumed ( we all know where that gets you) the two would be very close in sound. Could you please expand on the differences you heard between the two. thanks!

This is great guys, discussion and hearing others personal experiences with these old beast is exactly why I wanted to start this thread. Thanks everyone for participating!

Also , show us pics of your tables please! we all love looking these beauties regardless of condition, so please share some pics.

 

[jeremyjustic]

here, pics this nice deserve to be big

 

[Dandy]

Thanks for the great pics and developing discussion. I am in a similar position with my 401 having been completely rebuilt by a Garrard expert. It performs perfectly, runs silently and is of course an oil bearing. My cream 301 has only had its grease bearing serviced and idler checked (by same expert). Apart from a new switch cap, it is therefore stock, but still sounds very good and also runs silently.

I've never had the discipline to do a proper A-B comparison with same plinth and arm, because the cutouts are different. Personally, I wouldn't say that the oil bearing is inferior to the grease one.

 

[midwifecrisis]

Wow, I don't pay attention to this thread for a few days, and suddenly there's a full house! Beautiful 301s added, very nice.

As for the difference in sound between the grease vs oil bearing models, I have no direct experience with this, but having read others' comments on the subject, there are a few variables to consider. The first, and biggest factor, is condition. Either model should perform better than its counterpart if it is in better shape. Elsewhere, I've read that the 401 has slightly improved engineering in a few areas, but that the later production runs used less robust parts. It should, theoretically, perform better than the 301, but the 301, particularly the early model grease bearings, are built like tanks. So, again it seems the biggest factor will be its condition. Some say the grease bearing models sound sluggish by comparison with an oil bearing model. I guess this might be the case if it were not properly maintained. I've read too that the eddy brake/flywheel works in relation to the grease bearing spindle a bit differently. Speed issues with the motor are affected accordingly. The spindle tolerance in the grease bearing is a bit greater to allow for the higher viscosity, and this apparently has a damping effect.

Anyway, I have no basis for personal comparison. Of course, if someone wants to bring over their grease bearing 301, I'd be happy to live with it for a while and issue a report for everyone's edification. Purely in the interest of science, of course...

 

[Dandy]

Good points. Condition and servicing are both essential elements.

For those who haven't read it Jonathan Noble's article on 'DIY'ing a Time Machine' makes this point. The article focuses on his 401, but covers his experience of other idler decks too. Apologies to those who already know it. http://www.theanalogdept.com/diy'ing_a_time_machine.htm

 

[midwifecrisis]

motor maintenance

Hi fellas,

I mentioned a while back that a motor bearing inspection and cleaning/oiling might be a next step for me. If you haven't already seen this, here is a nice blog about refurbing a 301, and on this page he discusses taking apart the motor and performing the service. If you look elsewhere on the blog, he also makes a tube-based variable speed power supply! Very cool, and some very useful background reading too. See the comments about the idler bearings also while you're at it....

http://web.archive.org/web/20080520...inet.net.au/~quiddity/audio/Garrard301_2.html

cheers,
Sean

 

[totem]

Good link thanks for posting.

 

[jeremyjustic]

Hi fellas,

I mentioned a while back that a motor bearing inspection and cleaning/oiling might be a next step for me. If you haven't already seen this, here is a nice blog about refurbing a 301, and on this page he discusses taking apart the motor and performing the service. If you look elsewhere on the blog, he also makes a tube-based variable speed power supply! Very cool, and some very useful background reading too. See the comments about the idler bearings also while you're at it....

http://web.archive.org/web/20080520...inet.net.au/~quiddity/audio/Garrard301_2.html

cheers,
Sean

thanks for the link Sean, it has some good information.

well guys I am still waiting for my kokomo bearing , as soon as it comes in , I will be doing some a/b between the kokomo kit and the stock thrust bearing. hopefully it will get here before xmas.

 

[jeremyjustic]

happy Holidays guys, although I hope more of you can make it to the Garrard 301/401 owners club Christmas party next year, I was a little lonely but had a great time! hahaha all the best to you and your families this holiday season

 

[midwifecrisis]

What party? Well, hope the music was good... Great ads, I love it. Merry Christmas. Yes, a club party would be cool, we have to figure that out.

 

[jeremyjustic]

What party? Well, hope the music was good... Great ads, I love it. Merry Christmas. Yes, a club party would be cool, we have to figure that out.

I was just kidding about the Christmas party. I think we may be a little too spread out for a get together. however if anyone of you guys are ever in the seattle area ( or new orleans after I move back this summer) you are always welcomed at my house for some record playing!:thmbsp:

 

[midwifecrisis]

Likewise, when in NYC, come on over... Actually, I've been thinking about how to do something like this, it's just that my space is too small to really have a bunch over to listen to music. It's something that ALMOST makes me want to move. Maybe in the new year...

New Orleans is terrific, good luck with that! Great music down there.

 

[jeremyjustic]

Likewise, when in NYC, come on over... Actually, I've been thinking about how to do something like this, it's just that my space is too small to really have a bunch over to listen to music. It's something that ALMOST makes me want to move. Maybe in the new year...

New Orleans is terrific, good luck with that! Great music down there.

oh yeah , I was born and raised in New Orleans, we moved up to seattle 4 years ago for my girlfriend to get her masters degree. She is done with school and I'm ready to get back down south! LOTS of great music down there! my last appartment there was right outside of the fairgrounds where the have the New Orleans Jazz and Heritage fest. I could sit on my stoop and listen to free music all day! it was amazing.

I was just in NYC, not sure when I would be going back but one of my best friends moved to brooklyn so it may be sooner then later. all the best , Jeremy

 

[midwifecrisis]

Groovy, well I'm in Brooklyn too, so swing on by when you're back in civilization. There's a great record shop near me, too, just in case you don't have enough.

New Orleans seems like a great place to live. For obvious reasons, including warm weather. Oops, lunchtime, I think I want gumbo...

Cheers

 

[jeremyjustic]

I received my Kokomo bearing kit today and couldn't wait to get it on the table and check it out. the installation of the Kokomo bearing couldn't be more straight forward, it took me about 2 minutes to do the actual bearing swap, took longer to get the table off the plinth then it did to switch out the bearings. since others have gone into the installation step by step I will skip repeating the same information , I will say that the swap is basically taking two screws out, take the plate off , oil up everything and screw new bearing in. simple.

so how does it sound? stunned was my first impression, extremely quiet backgrounds , a dramatic improvement in background noise, dynamics and detail. I have only listened to a couple of sides so far but I can without a doubt say this was money well spent. listening to pink floyd's The Wall right now and the separation and detail retrieval are vastly improved. I can without a doubt say that the Kokomo bearing upgrade kit is well worth the effort and really takes the 401 to the next level. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!

here are some pics and a step by step installation



stock thrust plate in place

the old bearing , the wear is clearly seen on the top of the bronze thrust plate

bearing filled with oil and flydisk installed

all done! new thrust plate installed. easy as pie!

well guys I will do some more listening and report back later. right now I have some serious listening to do, I have a feeling it is going to be a late night of pulling records and giving the new bearing a real work out!


I received an Email from Robert Graetke , Owner of Analog Tube Audio, asking to please remove the close up photos of the kokomo bearing. out of respect for Robert they were removed.

 

[Dandy]

Nice pics, thanks. Look forward to your listening report.

 

[jessor]

Great thread. I'm very keen to read more about the various bearing options and how they impact sound. I recently moved from Iran to Nigeria and will not be able to use my Garrard 401 for a while, until I move into more permanent housing and can unpack my personal effects. I have two Garrard 401 and a cream 301. So far no major updates done, other than a cleaning and solid zebra wood plinth for the 401's. I also have a solid block of raintree wood which will be kept for the 301. I will post a photo as soon as possible.
Cheers