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Garrard 301/401 owners club!

Ohighway,
I would definately spend some time on giving it a good clean and check that everything works well, before making a new plinth etc. It looks like it will be very nice once you have cleaned it. Of course can not comment on what lurks under the hood.

It should play very nicely even with a simple plinth, or just a board with the right cut out. I think it has much more potential than the current arm can provide. You have lots of options to play with there.

After a simple and cost effective test has shown you it's potential you can always spend more money and time on getting higher performance. There is really no limit there, but it pays to be sensible. The fun for me is in trying to maximise performance at minimum or reasonable cost. Having said that, a full Shindo set up is nice.
 
Ohighway,
I would definately spend some time on giving it a good clean and check that everything works well, before making a new plinth etc. It looks like it will be very nice once you have cleaned it. Of course can not comment on what lurks under the hood.

Well, not sure if you saw my comment above but that's the reason I let Terry O'Sullivan look at it. (Loricraft buys/rebuilds/sells the high end Garrard turntables) I figure if he gave it a clean bill of health then it must be ok. As mentioned, said just basic lubrication and a rework or rebuild of the idler wheel itself (which isn't out of round but it's gotten hard over the years)

The fun for me is in trying to maximise performance at minimum or reasonable cost.

Yeah, that's where I live too. I do have another plinth. It's a castoff one of my friends gave me , basically something he'd bought from Mapleshade that was a complete f*ck up job. I took it to our woodshop at work before I retired and they did some repairs and such, but it still needs some work before it's ready for use.
 
Sorry. I missed that bit. If Terry O'Sullivan has blessed it, im sure it's a keeper just waiting to be put into proper clothing and get a magic wand.

I had my plinth done at a workshop in Tehran before I moved to Lagos. They were very nice but not turntable people. They proudly cut off the sides and gave me the cut out so I had to have a second one done up. They managed to glue the first one together so now I have a two tier solid plinth. Not what I planned, but it works and looks a treat.
 
Been tracking the 401 on the bay and other sites for a few months to get a feel for pricing and have found a plinth maker here is the US who's prices won't break the budget. Most available 401s seem to be in merry olde England with it's 50HZ AC. I'm wondering - how does does installing a 60HZ pulley affect the strobe? In other words, what needs to be done to make the strobe function here in the USofA.
 
There were some 401s made for American export and have the proper 60hz strobe markings. Mine doesn't, so I ignore it and have another method for checking speed. There are replacement platters, of course, but that's a whole other expensive deal. I have a 60hz strobe disk that sits on the platter which I use with an external lamp. Lots of things will work.

IMO, the strobe is no reason to avoid the 401 if your budget and impulse allows :)
 
Well here is my 401 rebuilt by Steve Dobbins. Still boxed up with a Victor ua-7082 arm. Need to find a plinth one day so I can enjoy this.
 

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There were some 401s made for American export and have the proper 60hz strobe markings. Mine doesn't, so I ignore it and have another method for checking speed. There are replacement platters, of course, but that's a whole other expensive deal. I have a 60hz strobe disk that sits on the platter which I use with an external lamp. Lots of things will work.

IMO, the strobe is no reason to avoid the 401 if your budget and impulse allows :)

Thanks. My search is now focused on the import version.
 
Kokomo ceramic ball damage to spindle

Hi there, just wanted to let you know I received the new kokomo bearing and installed it this afternoon. I haven't listened to it enough to properly evaluate the difference, but it certainly makes a big difference indeed. My immediate reaction was that the music sounded "brighter," as if the treble had opened up a good deal. I played a few lp's that I'm very familiar with, to try to get a better sense of it. Tomorrow I'll do some serious listening when I can focus on it more and report back.

On the design of the bearing itself, I was incorrect to say I thought it had done away with the ceramic ball bearing in the thrust plate. The new version still has a ceramic ball, but now this is covered by a Delrin pad, which rides flat against the spindle, basically forming a barrier to direct contact with the ceramic. Thus, there should be no undue wear damage against the spindle. And since the Delrin pad essentially "floats" in oil between the ball and the spindle, the platter freely rotates with seemingly no friction. I tested the platter by spinning it by hand with the motor and brake disengaged before playing any records, and it rotated for more than three minutes. I eventually stopped it from boredom and being anxious to play music, but I would love to time this again until it stopped on its own.

What is interesting here is that the Delrin pad is similar to the bearing thrust pad in a Thorens 160, so I can understand that this should work well and have a good degree of longevity. Additionally, it adds a material similarity to the original Garrard bearing thrust, which uses sintered bronze on top of a plastic pad (probably Delrin or similar, the two seem identical in consistency). The kokomo's manufacturer states that the new version has more of the signature Garrard sound, and utilizes a variation on the original thrust pad design. I take this to mean that the introduction of this material is intended to adhere more closely to the Garrard design which isolates the bottom plate from the spindle with the plastic part. He does not mention that it simultaneously addresses the concern regarding wear on the spindle caused by the ceramic ball, understandably so, since this would be an admission that the kokomo actually causes such wear.

Frankly, now that I've taken my bearing apart and installed the new one, I'm a bit skeptical about the whole controversy about wear on the spindle. I noticed that my original bronze bearing, which was not terribly worn itself, had indeed made a tiny circular mark on the spindle. Conceptually, the bronze is supposed to wear before the steel does, since it is softer, but nonetheless there is some evidence of friction on the spindle. Unless the bearing is run without proper lubrication, the degree of such wear should be minimal, but some should be expected regardless of materials. So, I wonder if perhaps the "damage" reported by others who used the kokomo was in fact already present on their spindles, but unnoticed when they installed the upgrade? Too, an improper amount of lubricant, or worse yet, the introduction of some other loose debris into the bearing during installation (stray fibers from steel wool, perhaps? the things I read about how people try to clean out their bearings, scary...) would certainly account for damage.

I guess this issue has me scratching my head a bit, since so many others do their own bearing upgrades (to Thorens and RekoKut decks) with a ceramic ball bearing, or even steel ones, and nobody reports any damage caused by them. Why would this be the case with one type of upgrade and not be true with all the others?

Anyway, all of this seems to be a moot point, since now the kokomo kit does not create direct contact between ceramic ball and spindle. One thing that doesn't seem to get mentioned in all the reviews, though, is the fact that the thrust pad is integrated into a very heavy bronze plate. This bronze plate itself must add something to the stability of the bearing and it's capacity to rotate freely. The original bronze plate is very thin by comparison, and presumably would not do as good a job at isolating the spindle and platter from vibration.

Sorry for the overly-long commentary here, but in sum, this new bearing seems a pretty significant upgrade to me.

Cheers!

Regards the perceived damage to the spindle, it was real on mine. I bought the kokomo bearing kit and installed it, used it for a couple months then decided to send the 301 to Loricraft for complete rebuild/service. I removed the Kokomo bearing and replaced original so that I could re-use the kokomo when the Loricraft unit returned. I was alarmed to see a tiny round pit dug into the base of the spindle and absolutely no wear on the much harder ceramic ball. I sent it to Loricraft and asked their opinion. They advised I stick with their bearing (which now is an inverted grease 301 bearing as they use on the 901) and they replaced the spindle.
 
Regards the perceived damage to the spindle, it was real on mine. I bought the kokomo bearing kit and installed it, used it for a couple months then decided to send the 301 to Loricraft for complete rebuild/service. I removed the Kokomo bearing and replaced original so that I could re-use the kokomo when the Loricraft unit returned. I was alarmed to see a tiny round pit dug into the base of the spindle and absolutely no wear on the much harder ceramic ball. I sent it to Loricraft and asked their opinion. They advised I stick with their bearing (which now is an inverted grease 301 bearing as they use on the 901) and they replaced the spindle.

The alleged spindle wear issue has been addressed with the addition of the plastic "flydisk". This is a small plastic disk set in between the spindle and the ceramic ball bearing. I say "alleged" only because Robert Graetke , Owner of Analog Tube Audio has denied that their was an issue in the first place. I cannot comment as to the validity of the spindle wear allegations however I can comment as to the validity of the kokomo bearing kit. It has made a wonderful sonic improvement to my 401. The addition of the flydisk seems to solve the problem( That supposedly never existed) of premature spindle wear, this coupled with vast sonic improvement leads me to highly recommend the Kokomo bearing kit.

That's a bummer that you had the spindle wear, could you tell us more about what you had loricraft do. I would love to hear your thoughts and reviews of their service. thanks for sharing.How do you feel the Loricraft inverted grease 301 bearing compares to the kokomo sonically. also post a picture if you can, there is nothing we like more then turntable porn. all the best , Jeremy
 
I have a Kokomo bearing on my 301 which I was initially very impressed by, but I'm still working up the courage to pull it apart and see if it's done any damage, following the reports mentioned.

I've also just been playing with RedBeard Analogue's Super Bearing which is truly magnificent and massively quieter than my Kokomo (which perhaps strongly suggests that the Kokomo should come out!). It does cost £595 however.....

FYI: I just wrote to northwestanalogue@hotmail.co.uk about their Super Bearing and on 13.Feb.2012 was told by Natalie "Just letting you know that we are not doing the bearings anymore. However we plan to bring out a bearing of our own but I don't know when that will be exactly."

Daniel
 
Shindo rebuild? EMT tonearm? TOTL Koetsu cartridge?

Frankly, things are sounding so fine right now I'm only tempted to buy better vinyl. Guilty secret: I've been getting some 45rpm lp reissues; have to say they are astonishing. Earlier today, I had on the reissue of the Mercury recording of moussorsky's Pictures at an Exhibition. I think it was reproduced by Speaker' Corner. Antal Dorati conducting. There are two discs, the first has the orchestral version, at 33rpm, the second disc is Byron Janis playing the original piano version of the same piece, at 45rpm. The piano recording was made in 1961 but could have been played yesterday. It is sonically (and musically) incredible. Both discs, in fact, are among the best recordings I have, but the 45 is something special. I didn't appreciate this record as much until the bearing upgrade.

I agree whole-heartedly, buying and listening to these records remastered @ 45 RPM, to me, make more of a difference to the sound of my system than any piece of equipment or cable that I have ever upgraded to. :yes:

My source is www.acousticsounds.com in Kansas. He has 45 RPM re-cuts of Verve, and Classic including the Clarity records, provides test pressings (I've had very good luck with these) and direct to disc with local blues players (I've not heard these yet).

If I buy two at a time and ship by regular mail (as opposed to Fed Ex) then they get past customs as well, and are cheaper than buying them in the UK (those that are available here). :smoke:
 
Hi guys, as a proud owner of a beautiful 401 I'd like to join your Garrard owners club!

I picked up mine on Fleabay last year and sent it straight to Dom Harper at Northwest Analogue to be serviced. Then unfortunately it lay idle (no pun intended) for nearly 12 months until I received my Northwest Analogue slate plinth, which is absolutely phenomenal. I also have a Redbeard super bearing, yet to be fitted though, I promise I'll get round to swapping the bearings very soon and will report my thoughts... watch this space! As an aside, I'm sure the Redbeard bearings are still available direct from the maker.
Oh... and I have an SME IV and Dynavector XX-2 MkII cart fitted.


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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=13.767562,100.512908
 
Hi ost, it sounds as if you will have a superb analogue rig quite soon. We look forward to hearing how you find the Redbeard super bearing.
 
Hi guys, as a proud owner of a beautiful 401 I'd like to join your Garrard owners club!

I picked up mine on Fleabay last year and sent it straight to Dom Harper at Northwest Analogue to be serviced. Then unfortunately it lay idle (no pun intended) for nearly 12 months until I received my Northwest Analogue slate plinth, which is absolutely phenomenal. I also have a Redbeard super bearing, yet to be fitted though, I promise I'll get round to swapping the bearings very soon and will report my thoughts... watch this space! As an aside, I'm sure the Redbeard bearings are still available direct from the maker.
Oh... and I have an SME IV and Dynavector XX-2 MkII cart fitted.


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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=13.767562,100.512908

welcome to our gang! this sounds great, as with many of us , my 401 sat in boxes for about a year before I got around to putting everything together. now that it is done , I can say there is no way that it will ever sit in boxes again! you owe it to yourself to get it playing! please keep us posted on your thoughts of the redbeard bearing and post some pics when you can! all the best , Jeremy
 
I just picked up a 401 a few weeks ago. I'm now putting together the funds to send it to Northwest Analogue as well. It'll be a while before I can afford the plinth though.

My current TT is a Lenco in a DIY soapstone plinth, so I may do something similar with the 401 if I can find a place to do the work. I just moved to London about a month ago, and one of the casualties was my huge garage/shop.

As for the Readbeard bearing, it looks like those who have them are lucky to have them, as there may not be any more. Dom at NWA has dropped them, and the Lenco guys have a long thread about "issues" with delivery.
 
My Loricraft 301, and old spindle used with old kokomo

The alleged spindle wear issue has been addressed with the addition of the plastic "flydisk". This is a small plastic disk set in between the spindle and the ceramic ball bearing. I say "alleged" only because Robert Graetke , Owner of Analog Tube Audio has denied that their was an issue in the first place. I cannot comment as to the validity of the spindle wear allegations however I can comment as to the validity of the kokomo bearing kit. It has made a wonderful sonic improvement to my 401. The addition of the flydisk seems to solve the problem( That supposedly never existed) of premature spindle wear, this coupled with vast sonic improvement leads me to highly recommend the Kokomo bearing kit.

That's a bummer that you had the spindle wear, could you tell us more about what you had loricraft do. I would love to hear your thoughts and reviews of their service. thanks for sharing.How do you feel the Loricraft inverted grease 301 bearing compares to the kokomo sonically. also post a picture if you can, there is nothing we like more then turntable porn. all the best , Jeremy

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loricraft rebuilt the motor, removing cadmium and replacing with new zinc coated linkage, gave me a new spindle following damage done by kokomo (above) with inverted 301 grease bearing (apparently, I haven't looked) that is what he allegedly uses on the 501. I have switched to Leben integrated and phono stage (CS-300XS and RS-30EQ) and found that the sound of a Nagaoka MP-50 MM (doesn't need step up tranny) sounds fine, perhaps better than the Sumiko Celebration Pearwood Signature that it replaced. I think it equal to the Shelter 501 (mono) on mono records which says a lot, the phono stage I was using that the above replaced was Loricrafts own missing link phono stage. The speakers are BD-Design Quasar IIs designed by Bert Doppenberg in Holland.
 
wow! what a great looking room and table! I like the plinth you have the 301 sitting in, I would love to figure out a dust cover for my set up. interesting thoughts on cartridges, I am unfamiliar with the Nagaoka MP-50 but have read great things about the sheter, guess I need to look into the Nagaoka! thanks for the info and the pics.

could you tell us a little more about your thoughts on loricrafts service, value for money, etc. any thoughts on the sonic improvements before and after loricraft service? thanks so much!

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loricraft rebuilt the motor, removing cadmium and replacing with new zinc coated linkage, gave me a new spindle following damage done by kokomo (above) with inverted 301 grease bearing (apparently, I haven't looked) that is what he allegedly uses on the 501. I have switched to Leben integrated and phono stage (CS-300XS and RS-30EQ) and found that the sound of a Nagaoka MP-50 MM (doesn't need step up tranny) sounds fine, perhaps better than the Sumiko Celebration Pearwood Signature that it replaced. I think it equal to the Shelter 501 (mono) on mono records which says a lot, the phono stage I was using that the above replaced was Loricrafts own missing link phono stage. The speakers are BD-Design Quasar IIs designed by Bert Doppenberg in Holland.
 
wow! what a great looking room and table! I like the plinth you have the 301 sitting in, I would love to figure out a dust cover for my set up. interesting thoughts on cartridges, I am unfamiliar with the Nagaoka MP-50 but have read great things about the sheter, guess I need to look into the Nagaoka! thanks for the info and the pics.

could you tell us a little more about your thoughts on loricrafts service, value for money, etc. any thoughts on the sonic improvements before and after loricraft service? thanks so much!

I bought the turntable used and it was in that "Loricraft plinth" when I got it. That is an older Loricraft plinth, the newer ones have three hinges on the dust cover, which slides out of the hinges easily.

The plinth sits on four squash balls, I just recently replaced those it came with using double yellow spot Dunlops (least bounce, flatest softest rubber) which seems to be what it needed. Loricraft say that this is the best mounting solution, they would, and add that slate and solid wood mounts mute the sound qualities somewhat, and when I mounted my turntable back onto the board to tighten the screws till the rubber round washers start to compress then one more turn. I've never heard a Garrard 301 on a slate deck or solid wood deck so I have no idea how good mine sounds compared to those.

The Garrard 301 that was in the Loricraft plinth was not Loricraft, so I sent it to then for the complete service, cost £1000.00 It did seem like a lot of money for what they did, but they did restore it to essentually new, and changed all the linkage for zinc coated instead of the dangerous cadmium coated stuff. Also the bearing as stated before.

In regards the nagaoka, I am so unsatisfied with all the reviewers who write up an individual cartridge and compare it to their experience, or to another cartridge that I have never heard, and I suspect more respectful of the pay off or free cartridge then anything approaching truth, that I looked elsewhere and found this:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1200430667&&&&&s+0

Raul compared many available and not available MM cartridges and made his findings known on Audiogon back in 99 I believe, his words rang true. I picked up a Nagaoka MP-50 awhile back based on those words and have been quite pleased with it. Now only available as the MP-500 it costs a lot more. I do not know if it sounds as good or not. Others Raul spoke of are also available. Read his words and see if they don't inspire you as well.
 
Here is my Garrard 301 GB in solid Cherry layered plinth cemented with hot hide glue.

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Here is mine. :music:
 
Cherry Wood

Cids,

how is the metal attached, with the screws? How tight? How close to the motor and linkage is the relief? And have you ever listened to Loricraft squash ball suspended Garrard and then yours with same cartridge and tonearm, and cables, same phonostage, and amplifier, and speakers to see if there is a difference, and what that difference is?

I sincerely want to know as I have never compared mine same for same with another, and I have never yet found someone else who has. Same slate deck and wood deck and suspended deck.
 
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