Garrard Lab 80

[Nat]

It seems to me that there was a period between the Lab series and the Zero 100s with normally pivoted arms made of flat stock or angular tubing and loads of plastic, and those turntables looked cheap, and the bearings that worked well with heavy platters and strong motors didn't work well with lighter platters and more sophisticated motors -- at any rate the turntables that followe the Lab series didn't sound all that great -- my impression, not an absolute statement. The Zero 100 series had some real virtues, but the arm had a lot of resonances and friction,so it wasn't exactly perfection itself.

 

[Beobloke]

Well, I owe you guys a great deal of thanks for this thread! Mrs. B has been away all weekend and so I've had two solid days of fixing stuff - a Garrard AT6, Bang & Olufsen Beovox MS150 speakers and Beocord 5500 and 8004 cassette decks, a Sound Creations DJ console and my mother's friend's Pioneer midi system in case anyone's interested!

However, first on the list was the filthy Garrard LAB80 that I bought a few months back, which has been sat festering at the back of the shed.

A good clean, some fresh lubrication, some new mains and signal leads and a new cartridge later and it's spinning sweetly and silently, with all automatic functions operating flawlessly. I ran out of time last night so didn't actually get a chance to listen to it but that's tonight's job (along with rebuilding a Dansk SD1702 turntable which Parcelforce kindly turned into a jigsaw for me!)

Will try and get some pics up in the next day or two....

 

[sberger]

The LAB 80 is a nice changer. As with any turntable / changer, proper cartridge selection is a must. It is also a bit finicky to set up and adjust.

Was searching around the net tonight about a Lab 80 vs. a Dual 1019 which I just got and came across this very old thread. So I'm responding in case anybody is doing the same and considering a Lab 80 Mk1 or MkII(which I have).

There could not be an easier table to set up and adjust. One of the reasons I love it so much.

 

[gillsev]

"Like" my page on the Lab 80 in Facebook! Will you guys? Thanks

https://www.facebook.com/GarrardLab80

 

[KentTeffeteller]

With Garrard, there really was no true upgrade. The Lab 80 was the best changer they ever made. Even the SL 95B and the Zero 100 idler models were just fancy AutoSlim based changers. Which was due to Plessey cheapening the design. Miracords were really the best idler changers of the lot or a PE. The best Duals were nice but more maintenance prone with wear parts. So, the Lab 80 was the last real Garrard changer design without any Plessey economies in design and build. In short, the last traditional Garrard changer made with the lineage back to the RC series 3 speed lineup. Every model to the demise of Garrard forward was lesser in the mechanical department.

 

[gillsev]

With Garrard, there really was no true upgrade. The Lab 80 was the best changer they ever made. Even the SL 95B and the Zero 100 idler models were just fancy AutoSlim based changers. Which was due to Plessey cheapening the design.

:thmbsp:

 

[gillsev]

Although they tried a "Quality" comeback on the Z2000B which looked "scientifically gorgeous" with all the bells and whistles arrayed on the tonearm and revised look on the deck with a more massive platter, it wasn't quite as close to the Lab 80 "built like a tank" wise.

One push of the Manual lever to ON, and you can tell immediately. It didn't have that massive "clink" sound and feel, the way it felt on the Lab 80 when you pushed the same lever.

Yeah, the Z2000B looked GREAT cosmetically! But the Lab 80 was built to exceed a lifetime :thmbsp:

BTW, thanks for the "Like" Kent. Was thinking of making you my co-admin on that page

 

[jlovda]

A tt that is embarrassed by a 1019 is not something to which to entrust one's most precious vinyl ;-)

Yes, I had my choice between those two in 1967 when I bought my first good turntable. Absolutely no comparison in terms of build quality and operation. I bought the 1019 at Musicraft in Chicago with an Empire cartridge (i don't know why). I should have gotten a Shure M91. These were the two that came included with either turntable. I still have my 1019 and finally got it overhauled by the guy in Iowa. My roommate in college had a Lab 80. I was not impressed.

Afromosia wood tonearm. Did it do any good?

 

[Nat]

It wasn't actually afromesia -- it was a metal arm with an afromesia insert on top. It may have been excellent at damping the arm, but to suggest that the arm was primarily wood was a bit of creative advertising.

On the more general level, I don't think that a satisfying clunk when controls are operated is actually all that relevant to how a turntable sounds -- no more so than a clunk when a door is closed tells you anything important about a car's handling (especially since car manufacturers know how to sell sizzle, and can add mass to a door just to give it that sensation, without actually making the door more solid).

 

[gillsev]

On the more general level, I don't think that a satisfying clunk when controls are operated is actually all that relevant to how a turntable sounds -- no more so than a clunk when a door is closed tells you anything important about a car's handling (especially since car manufacturers know how to sell sizzle, and can add mass to a door just to give it that sensation, without actually making the door more solid).

Have you ever closed a door on a Benz compared to a Toyota? You hear quality on the former than the latter (and yes, it's more solid!). Which one you prefer Nat?

 

[gadget73]

One of these days I must own a German changer just so I can compare them fairly. One thing I will give Garrard mechanisms is that they tend to not be overly fussy. Lube them properly and they just work, especially the lesser models. Those Autoslim-based machines are virtually indestructable as long as the parts can move.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

True. I still have high respect for most AutoSlim mechanisms. While cost reduced, they were still excellent mechanisms if less handmade than the older RC era designs. They still were well made, the UniMechs were cheap and nasty and an insulting end to the Garrard legacy.

 

[SFBayArch]

I thought I'd chime in here as I have experience with these idler-driven changers from the 60s-70s. I've owned the Duals previously mentioned (1019, 1218 & 1219) as well as a handful of the Papst hysteresis motor Miracords and also the Lab 80 (half dozen of them, both Mk I & II). My favorite of the bunch based on both objective and subjective criteria is the Lab 80 with the Miracord 50H/770H coming in a close runner-up.

The Lab 80s often get a bad rap because most of these units after 40 some odd years have arthritic mechanisms frozen from a concoction of dried soap & grease that Garrard used from the factory. Once cleaned and re-lubed. These mechanisms are nearly impossible to fail/break. Regarding the main platter bearing. Just inspect the thrust washer bearing race for grit and/or wear and replace the bearings with new chromed ones and you've got a massive, full-diameter non-ferrous alloy platter that will spin up to 2 mins after stop from 33-1/3 rpm. Same goes with the tonearm. Just replace the bearings after cleaning and lubing and you've got a beautifully functioning medium compliance arm that is quite low friction in the vertical and lateral directions. The aformosia clad tonearm is distinctive and beautiful and has a functional justification too: Coupled with the concealed non-ferrous alloy arm and attached metal head shell, it dampens/eliminates cartridge/tonearm resonances.

I've done my own non-scientific comparisons all of these turntables at one time or another with various Shure MM cartridges from the M3D to the M91 up to the V15 IV. I found the sonic differences too slim to make a big deal about.

So, ultimately it has been down to mainly subjective matters that led me to prefer the Lab 80 over these others. It's pretty, solid and, as others have mentioned, built like a tank.

My advice, if you're curious. Find one cheap and not working, clean it and re-lube it. It's not likely going to be broken;

• Get new rubber on the idler to eliminate rumble and increase torque.
• Swap the bearings with new ones - pretty easy job.
• Don't try to fit on it a low compliance cartridge/stylus - use it the way it was designed.
• Try a good vintage Shure cartridge that tracks min 1-1/2 grams - I even like the M97xE on it it too.

 

[Nat]

Gillsev:
Hmm -- comparing a Mercedes and an Toyota. Bit of a price difference there. That might have something to do with which one I would choose.
More appropriate would be to listen to the doors of the really old Toyotas (or other 60s subcompacts) and the doors of current, even cheap cars. The new ones sound much better. Are the doors actually that much heavier? Actually, probably not at all. But they sound heavier..
The point I was trying to make is that the sound a changer mechanism makes is only slightly related to its quality. I goofed around with a couple of the really old 78 changers, which, if I recall, had geared mechanisms with no fail safe mechanism --Boy, did the controls move positively, and the machine practically purred, right up to the point it smashed your record and just kept moving.
I'm glad to hear people like their Lab 80s -- I like the Lab 80. But I like the Dual 1019 and the Miracords more, I think.
(And I'm not sure that comparing a Lab 80s that has had all its bearings changed is exactly a compelling argument for the superiority of the Lab 80 -- I'm sure its a great idea, but implicit in it is some sort of acknowledgement that either the bearings weren't that great to begin with, or that they weren't that durable. Certainly the bearings in the couple of Lab 80s that I have used were perfectly audible, and that is one of the reasons for my preferring Duals and MIracords.)

 

[1tumbleweed]

...Miracords were really the best idler changers of the lot...

A big +1. I gave up on Garrards after a disappointing Zero 100. My Miracord 50H was the last changer I ever owned, and I was very happy with it for a number of years until getting seduced by a Pioneer PL-71. Lord, that thing was purdy...especially compared to the stern Germanic industrial look of the 50H.

 

[SFBayArch]

I'll add one note on the Miracords. I like them a lot, particularly my 50H MkII and my 770H (aesthetically love the 10H), but one matter really bugged me with them. The cheesy/chinsy plastic headshell and slide really let down what is otherwise a great changer with the best motor of the bunch.

 

[gillsev]

Gillsev:
Hmm -- comparing a Mercedes and an Toyota. Bit of a price difference there. That might have something to do with which one I would choose.
More appropriate would be to listen to the doors of the really old Toyotas (or other 60s subcompacts) and the doors of current, even cheap cars. The new ones sound much better. Are the doors actually that much heavier? Actually, probably not at all. But they sound heavier..
The point I was trying to make is that the sound a changer mechanism makes is only slightly related to its quality. I goofed around with a couple of the really old 78 changers, which, if I recall, had geared mechanisms with no fail safe mechanism --Boy, did the controls move positively, and the machine practically purred, right up to the point it smashed your record and just kept moving.
I'm glad to hear people like their Lab 80s -- I like the Lab 80. But I like the Dual 1019 and the Miracords more, I think.
(And I'm not sure that comparing a Lab 80s that has had all its bearings changed is exactly a compelling argument for the superiority of the Lab 80 -- I'm sure its a great idea, but implicit in it is some sort of acknowledgement that either the bearings weren't that great to begin with, or that they weren't that durable. Certainly the bearings in the couple of Lab 80s that I have used were perfectly audible, and that is one of the reasons for my preferring Duals and MIracords.)

You're cool Nat! I've got a Dual 1229Q myself on the den, and I love it too. It's more refined and very smooth automatic operation that's quieter and gentler than the Lab 80.
But my Lab 80 still takes center stage on my living room anyway. She's built like a tank, and a classic true Garrard changer of its time. I know she'll outlive me!

 

[GP49]

I use a Lab 80 for playing my 78s.

How do you do that? The Lab 80 is 33/45 only. See photo of its control panel.

Do you really have a Lab 80, or something else? Perhaps you are mistaking some other Garrard for a Lab 80.

That would be different from how a lot of people at AudioKarma write about equipment that they obviously have never used, operated, listened to, or serviced. They must be just regurgitating audio legends and old wives' tales.

 

[GP49]

One of these days I must own a German changer just so I can compare them fairly. One thing I will give Garrard mechanisms is that they tend to not be overly fussy.

The Dual Steuerpimpel has to be the worst design for a critical part in all of automatic turntabledom. Of course, I did make a lot of money fixing them in the years when the turntable was king. THANKS, DUAL!

 

[Nat]

I use a Lab 80 for playing my 78s.
How do you do that? The Lab 80 is 33/45 only.

Verrrrrry slooooowly. Verrrrrrrrrrrrry slooooooooly.

I once listened to a tape of Hot Buttered Soul at half speed, and it was just great. But I don't think Isaac Hayes ever came out on 78s...