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Grado Black2 p-mount - taking the plunge.

OK! New Grado Black2 in the house!

First impressions: Grado STILL sucks. Sounds dead as a doornail. NO 'air', almost muffled and muted.

Anyone wanna buy a slightly used Grado? This is just as crappy as the last series was.
 
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Vinylmasters said:
OK! New Grado Black2 in the house!

First impressions: Grado STILL sucks. Sounds dead as a doornail. NO 'air', almost muffled and muted.

Anyone wanna buy a slightly used Grado? This is just as crappy as the last series was.
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That's the same experience I have with their carts. Dead, dull and no crisp upper end to speak of. And, I've tried my Black1 on several turntables. It sits in a box now.
 
Electone said:
That's the same experience I have with their carts. Dead, dull and no crisp upper end to speak of. And, I've tried my Black1 on several turntables. It sits in a box now.
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I have two of the older Blacks and one silver with the (I think) .5mz or something stylus. They all sound like mud. Add in that you have to re-adjust everything because it isn't to T4P standards and... Yea. I'm done with Grado. IMHO, one of the worst cart companies I have ever heard.
 
Vinylmasters said:
OK! New Grado Black2 in the house!

First impressions: Grado STILL sucks. Sounds dead as a doornail. NO 'air', almost muffled and muted.

Anyone wanna buy a slightly used Grado? This is just as crappy as the last series was.
Click to expand...
I dont own a black just blue 2 and gold 2 and a couple of woodies and a vintage Grado with dc resistance of 800 ohms. The older Grado ie not the vintage one but the gold 1 etc which had 400 something ohm dc resistance were not exciting, the new blue 2 and gold 2 are far nicer at the top end and very wide dc resistance 680 ohms despite what is written on the instructions. The old vintage 800 ohms is exciting to listen to also so looks like Grado is going back to higher dc resistance.
Grado though are still high compliance so I do wonder if those who find them muted or unexciting are listening to them on an arm which is not correct compliance for the cart?
Also depends what you are comparing them to. I think the sound of the blue 2 and gold 2 is very natural ie nothing accentuated ie treble level correct mids correct and deep nice bass. If someone likes accentuated highs like the old AT95e and quite a few other carts they are not going to like a Grado. Old Grado were a bit rolled off up the top, but dont believe the new ones are at all.
Chris
 
cafe latte said:
I dont own a black just blue 2 and gold 2 and a couple of woodies and a vintage Grado with dc resistance of 800 ohms. The older Grado ie not the vintage one but the gold 1 etc which had 400 something ohm dc resistance were not exciting, the new blue 2 and gold 2 are far nicer at the top end and very wide dc resistance 680 ohms despite what is written on the instructions. The old vintage 800 ohms is exciting to listen to also so looks like Grado is going back to higher dc resistance.
Grado though are still high compliance so I do wonder if those who find them muted or unexciting are listening to them on an arm which is not correct compliance for the cart?
Also depends what you are comparing them to. I think the sound of the blue 2 and gold 2 is very natural ie nothing accentuated ie treble level correct mids correct and deep nice bass. If someone likes accentuated highs like the old AT95e and quite a few other carts they are not going to like a Grado. Old Grado were a bit rolled off up the top, but dont believe the new ones are at all.
Chris
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All I can say is this: I've had various Grado's on a SL-1301 (that was this one), a JVC QL-Y55f and an old Onkyo table I can't remember the model # of, and they all sounded the same on each on of them (I believe all went through a Yamaha M-70 with a Yamaha C-70 pre). I can compare them easily with a p-mount setup that I have - all kinds of AT's, ADC, Empire, Pickering, Stanton, Shures from conical to ML's and a couple SAS as well. Even my Red Ed runs circles around this Grado. I have yet to figure out why so many are enamored with them.
 
My experience with Grado is similar. I bought a Black2 back when they were first introduced based on a fairly positive review from Needlestein when he was still posting here. I tried to like it, but I just never warmed up to it. I also have a Gold1 and a couple of other older P-mount Grados that sound worse (to me) than the Black2. Just not my taste I suppose.
 
The strong suit of the Grados in general was a fluid natural midrange response. More money moving up the line brought refinements with extensions of performance up and down the audio spectrum.
Like the Decca London, it's a brilliant if quirky device.
 
Vinylmasters said:
All I can say is this: I've had various Grado's on a SL-1301 (that was this one), a JVC QL-Y55f and an old Onkyo table I can't remember the model # of, and they all sounded the same on each on of them (I believe all went through a Yamaha M-70 with a Yamaha C-70 pre). I can compare them easily with a p-mount setup that I have - all kinds of AT's, ADC, Empire, Pickering, Stanton, Shures from conical to ML's and a couple SAS as well. Even my Red Ed runs circles around this Grado. I have yet to figure out why so many are enamored with them.
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Your arm on at least the sl1301 is too heavy I did not check the rest. I use a Technics sl1210mk2 modded and with an oil damper on the arm which extends the compliance, without it the Grado would be way outside its happy place, even with the damper it is just in. Depends what you are looking for too, if you are looking for accentuated treble which is a lot of carts then you wont find this is a Grado. If you want it to sound as it was meant then you will be a lot more happy with the Grado. Shures apart the M97xe are hot in the Treble for example.
Chris
 
Pio1980 said:
The strong suit of the Grados in general was a fluid natural midrange response. More money moving up the line brought refinements with extensions of performance up and down the audio spectrum.
Like the Decca London, it's a brilliant if quirky device.
Click to expand...
Decca for what it is worth was considered hard to set up and fussy of arms, not so with new ones, the issues were older ones with loose tie backs which made them almost impossible to get working. Old ones serviced or new and they work on any arm with is the right compliance. Decca (mine is a super gold) IMO is the best cart I have ever heard, all else is just a recording they are the live performance.
A good well set up Grado on a decent system will give amazing results, but nothing beats a Decca.
Chris
 
cafe latte said:
Your arm on at least the sl1301 is too heavy I did not check the rest. I use a Technics sl1210mk2 modded and with an oil damper on the arm which extends the compliance, without it the Grado would be way outside its happy place, even with the damper it is just in. Depends what you are looking for too, if you are looking for accentuated treble which is a lot of carts then you wont find this is a Grado. If you want it to sound as it was meant then you will be a lot more happy with the Grado. Shures apart the M97xe are hot in the Treble for example.
Chris
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You just convinced me how right I am that they are garbage. :)
 
cafe latte said:
A good well set up Grado on a decent system will give amazing results, but nothing beats a Decca.
Chris
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In this case, a bottom of the line cartridge that is supposed to be for T4P standard that isn't. It's SUPPOSED to be 'set up' already. That's what a p-mount is cartridge is SUPPOSED to be about. It's junk truthfully. I'll never buy another Grado. This is the same junk they've been selling all along IMHO.
 
Pio1980 said:
The strong suit of the Grados in general was a fluid natural midrange response. More money moving up the line brought refinements with extensions of performance up and down the audio spectrum.
Like the Decca London, it's a brilliant if quirky device.
Click to expand...

Honestly. I don't see (or hear) that at all. I hear 'mud'. No 'brilliance' at all to it. Just 'mud'.
 
Vinylmasters said:
Honestly. I don't see (or hear) that at all. I hear 'mud'. No 'brilliance' at all to it. Just 'mud'.
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They typically aren't masters of detailing, like MC carts and some MM-MI with line contact tips.
System matching, a compatible turntable setup, and in my case a hearing test for mid to hf acuity was instructive.
 
marcmorin said:
something is wrong someplace. There's usually not much that will play the midrange like a grado, or the upper grace carts.
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You can start with it not being to T4P spec. But then again, p-mount or not, I've yet to hear a Grado that didn't sound like this.
 
Pio1980 said:
They typically aren't masters of detailing, like MC carts and some MM-MI with line contact tips.
System matching, a compatible turntable setup, and in my case a hearing test for mid to hf acuity was instructive.
Click to expand...

Meh. It should sound good right out of the box. It's a p-mount. Plug and play. No excuses there for Grado. They cheaped out and stayed with a reg cart that was out of spec instead of creating one that was. No other way to put that. Nothing wrong with my gear or tables either. Popped it on with a Sony STR-AV1070 which is a super clean 125 receiver, and it's mud there too. Been doing pro transfers and such for years as well. Listening to it now on the Sony with a pristine 2-eye copy of S&G's 'Bookends'. And well, 'blech'. And that's after a night of wear in.
 
cafe latte said:
Your arm on at least the sl1301 is too heavy I did not check the rest. I use a Technics sl1210mk2 modded and with an oil damper on the arm which extends the compliance, without it the Grado would be way outside its happy place, even with the damper it is just in. Depends what you are looking for too, if you are looking for accentuated treble which is a lot of carts then you wont find this is a Grado. If you want it to sound as it was meant then you will be a lot more happy with the Grado. Shures apart the M97xe are hot in the Treble for example.
Chris
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I have a LOT of Shure's and one has an SAS on it. No matter what I A/B this Grado against, it loses. Badly. The lowly Shure M92 kicks it's @$$, let alone the M97xE. The only cart I have that might be deemed worse sounding is this unnamed cart from overseas:

http://www.thevoiceofmusic.com/cata...e=MfgNameNeedles&MfgName=Japanese&Categories=

This is NOT how 'sound was meant to sound'. Not even close.
 
I took a P-mount Grado off one of the Technics LTs I bought years ago and never tried to use it, so I cannot comment directly to their version. Stylus is everything for a cart's characteristics, afaik, no stylus from Grado makes them T4-P compliant.
 
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Would it be totally crazy to just add a touch of mass on top of the Grado P mount, to make it track at exactly 1.5 gram? It would take only a tiny amount.

On a linear tracker anti-skate should be irrelevant, no?
 
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