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Grado Gold Upgrade Path

Agreed! IMO, compared to competition, Grado tips from Silver and up ought to have nude tips with clearly defined 'cuts'. The ATVM95 series is offering beautiful nude styli in elliptical, ML and Shibata shapes, all under $200. It's tough to swallow the lack of information and lack of nude tips from Grado as competitors meet the information needs of customers.


Blewpernt said:
I seriously doubt there’s been any change to the styli.

Grado should introduce nude tips at a price point lower than $600.
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I too wish that they would put a little more emphasis on improving styli for Prestige-compatible bodies. There are those of us who like to upgrade, tinker, and experiment. Higher-end styli and Prestige-style bodies would really fit the bill.

I get it though. They'd rather push wood bodies at the top end. I guess that makes sense from a marketing perspective. Exotic looking bodies that require factory retips sure seem similar to those high-end moving coil cartridges that cost thousands. Even though the heart and soul of a $10k+ Grado Woody has far more in common with the lowly Prestige series, Grado would never be able to command the super big bucks if they LOOKED like the Prestige series.

I will refrain from any harsh judgement until I hear one of these series 3 carts. In fact, I am hopeful for an improvement. Historically Grado has never really dealt with the "Prestige Problem." Grado's elephant in the room has always been their underdamped/insufficient suspensions that result in extremely narrow compatibility with tonearms. Some might argue that this of suspension is what gives Grado their magic. Maybe so. But it also leads to a lot of complaints about dull, bloated sound, distortion, and mistracking. A few bad reviews go a long way.

I've had old Grado styli that have fewer issues. I even have a cheap conical that tracks at 2.7g! It matches my Technics S-arm perfectly, out-tracks my Black2 and has magic and mojo out the wazzoo... So, I don't buy the line that they have to be this way to sound this way. They could improve upon that issue if they so desired, and perhaps with this generation, they have...
 
patient_ot said:
If you like your Grado, go ahead and get the retip done.

I don't like Grado cartridges much and wouldn't bother personally.

The 95ML is a great cart but needs low capacitance in order to sound best and works best on medium mass to medium heavy tonearms. I'm not sure what the effective mass of your Dual arm is. If it is lighter than 12g, I would probably choose something like the higher compliance AT VM500 series instead, or the Ortofon OM series.

Re: stereo separation, that is one dimension of cartridge performance. I tested the 95ML at 27dB, which exceeds factory spec and is more than good enough for any recording on vinyl and most human ears. Where the Grado will fall apart is tracking tests. I use the Ortofon test LP for this. The 95ML will track the 90um before losing contact with the groove. Legendary cartridges like the best OOP Stantons and Shures can clear the 100um band.

Grado Gold (previous model) was tested by Miller Audio Research and struggled to hit the 70um band (it crapped out at 65um) on a test record. That is very middling to poor performance for a supposed top of the range cartridge. If you play a lot of tamely cut records you might not care. The problem is in the suspension design of Grados. It doesn't matter that they tweaked the electrical specs for a more balanced FR curve. Not gonna fix the tracking problems. This was on a 10g tonearm also, so save the arguments that Grado needs a light arm.
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Best I can determine is the effective mass of the tone arm is 6.5 grams per:
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/dual-1219-and-1245-tone-arm-specs.129221/

Can anyone confirm?

Thanks.
 
Blewpernt said:
Ugh. That new wood body is just ridiculous. It looks like a big toe. It’s ginormous for no reason except that Grado pinched two cuts off the process. It looks silly, heavy and inelegant. You can’t see the diamond or the cantilever under there. Setting it up feels like looking under a bus for the pen you dropped.

God, I hate that thing.
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:rflmao::rflmao::rflmao::rflmao:
 
Blewpernt said:
Ugh. That new wood body is just ridiculous. It looks like a big toe. It’s ginormous for no reason except that Grado pinched two cuts off the process. It looks silly, heavy and inelegant. You can’t see the diamond or the cantilever under there. Setting it up feels like looking under a bus for the pen you dropped.

God, I hate that thing.
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Don't hold back! Tell us how you really feel.
 
Multiplex said:
@marcmorin has potted Grados in the past. In fact, I have one of his potted bodies, and it sounds great. The material he used is not the same as what Grado used, but it really shouldn't matter, so long as the end result is the same. You might ask what he uses...
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I used syl-glide grease...............commonly used to lubricate caliper sliders/pins. applied carefully and slowly to not break a fly wire.

First cart I ever potted............years ago, was done with molten bees wax, just like a guitar pickup......submerged, and then a butt-load of clean up time...........the reason I went then to a silicone grease. Beatcomber ended up with my original 8MZ I bought in 88. it is loaded up with that grease.
He's commented on how different it sounds than the 8MR
 
marcmorin said:
I used syl-glide grease...............commonly used to lubricate caliper sliders/pins. applied carefully and slowly to not break a fly wire.

First cart I ever potted............years ago, was done with molten bees wax, just like a guitar pickup......submerged, and then a butt-load of clean up time...........the reason I went then to a silicone grease. Beatcomber ended up with my original 8MZ I bought in 88. it is loaded up with that grease.
He's commented on how different it sounds than the 8MR
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Potted a butt-ton of guitar pickups. Always used plain old parafin wax for canning though.
 
I potted a Grado Prestige with 30 minute epoxy and a toothpick. Use the toothpick like a honey spoon and then let it drizzle into the cavity without gumming up the silver contact disks. It worked well but made the cartridge heavy. I also longhorned it which made it even heavier. I liked the way it sounded but as I learned more about tonearms, carts and compliance I had the nagging feeling that I had actually bunged the cartridge up with my mods. I tossed it when a channel cut out a couple of years later.
 
Andre Garcia said:
IMO grados are good on 10 or up tonearms. I made one are with 14grs and sound great.
the good thing is light arm could be improved adding weight, but is hard the opposite.
AG.
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14 gram arm mass is the ideal. My Grado ME+ mono cartridge sounds amazing on my Technics tonearm mounted in a 9 gram headshell, making the arm mass 14 grams.
 
I am interested in hearing more about marcmorin potting of cartridges. You can pott any cartridge? The potting makes everything better? Is this a low cost mod?
 
Multiplex said:
Grado fans have been kind of holding their breath, due to a post from a couple months back by @Jbl Joe . His post claimed that Grado would be releasing some new products this month, including a new improved 8MZ which he already had in his possession. The release date was supposedly the 11th, but the day came and went with no big announcement. There's seemingly been radio silence since, and the thread fizzled. An update would be nice...
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Spoke with John Grado this past week and he said things are close
 
Logic6 said:
I am interested in hearing more about marcmorin potting of cartridges. You can pott any cartridge? The potting makes everything better? Is this a low cost mod?
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I've potted a couple of Grados. Never could definitively decide whether or not it made a difference.
 
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Jbl Joe said:
Spoke with John Grado this past week and he said things are close
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Close to what? He told me he'd email me some info on what's coming. Never heard back. Interesting that the Prestige 3's are out there now. I'm listening to a Blue3 right now that I bought a couple of days ago.
 
Any initial thoughts on the Blue3? I remember that you were a big fan of the changes in the Black2.



Lorenzo47 said:
Close to what? He told me he'd email me some info on what's coming. Never heard back. Interesting that the Prestige 3's are out there now. I'm listening to a Blue3 right now that I bought a couple of days ago.
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DavidTT said:
Any initial thoughts on the Blue3? I remember that you were a big fan of the changes in the Black2.
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Yes, the Black2 was much better than the Black I used to own. The Gold2 is even better, much smoother and refined. My new Blue3 only has about 45 minutes worth of break in so far so I know it will change. Initial impressions are that separation and imaging are very good - maybe better than the Gold2 actually. It's a bit hotter than the Gold2, treble is extended and perhaps a bit peaky. But, I've found that almost normal with new Grados in my system. It tracks very well in my Marc Morin modified AR XA. (which seems to be made for Grados) I haven't detected any IGD so far. I've played a couple of familiar jazz albums so far. I have a lot more listening to do and break in time to put on this cartridge.
 
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