Has vinyl peaked?

[bangsezmax]

Another way to look at the trendiness of vinyl and/or whether or not it will peak:

We live in an accelerated and accelerating mass media culture. The more we know about stuff (and with Google on your smart phone, everything's at your fingertips 24/7) the more we chew it up, swallow it and move on to the next thing. So to some extent the vinyl "fad" among youth culture appears to be just another one of those things that will get abandoned by the group whenever they sense it's played out as a cultural thing. Par for the course in our ADHD culture.

Or will it?

For most newer vinyl listeners, the primary defining factor of the popularity of any given form of musical media has been its portability. It has been thus since the Walkman in 1979. You can do just about anything you want to anywhere you want to with some headphones on and a portable player.

Vinyl is NOT portable. You cannot go anywhere and do anything with it. In some ways, it almost forces you to NOT be ADHD, to be in the moment where you are, to consciously decide which record is going to fit your mood when you're sitting at home (or at a friend's home) doing whatever you're doing there, even if it's just pleasant background music. You're making at least a 20 minute commitment to be in one place, and not scurrying around town multi-tasking.

Some people will realize, on a conscious or sub-conscious level, that this makes them feel good and is good for their psyche. If enough people pick up on this, vinyl could hang around for a long time.

 

[Scuzzer]

The statement could apply to lots of subcultures

Exactly. My use would be for groups outside of audio.

 

[JohnVF]

That statement applies to almost any hobby/pursuit. It seems that for anything you get into, a group will snob all the fun out of it. And even within those groups one group will fight another, with the slightest differnent approach, even though to the general population they're doing the same thing. Biking, building models, watching movies, you name it. Any pursuit can be ruined by the my-way-is-better-than-your's.

 

[Scuzzer]

That statement applies to almost any hobby/pursuit.

I don't have many hobbies that I actively read about on the web but every one that I do has the same spread of groups that this place has. Purist snobs, hoarders, scroe guys, you name it they're all over the place so I have to believe it's just part of the human condition. There's also a group of guys who complain about all of the above groups, so that must be innately human as well.

 

[bangsezmax]

I don't think the comic book guys look down their noses at everybody else. Or the scrapbooking ladies. They like what they like, they belong to their subculture, and there's not much judgment from them about it one way or another. Not that I can tell anyhow. Maybe the problem is that i know too many hipsters and audiophiles.

 

[JohnVF]

I agree- its part of being human. It's like the more a pain in the ass something is, the higher the likelihood that its going to attract the people who think that you're not worthy if you're not working for something as hard as they are. Doesn't surprise me that the kids into vinyl are often the same ones into shitty single-speed bikes with no gears or brakes.

FWIW, most of the bragging I see in vinyl has less to do with price and more to do with how much of a pain in the ass somebody is making it out to be. "If you're not pursing it to my degree of obsession you're not doing it right" or "If you just spent money to get a good table instead of spending countless hours tweaking, modifying, and obsessing, you're not worthy".

 

[onepixel]

Somebody should create a poll and see what the media trend is. Granted it's going to be a bit skewed because this is an audio form and won't take into account the general music buying public, but it will give some kind of indication.

 

[131east23]

Used vinyl is still what's pushing this trend IMHO. Among our members on AK the amount of used records purchased vs new records purchased on a daily, monthly and yearly basis is very telling.

 

[JohnVF]

True but I find the buying behavior on AK to be counter to almost everything I observe in person in the audio hobby at large. The record stores around here have had a huge swing towards new-vinyl in the past 8 years I've lived here. But it's just one city.

 

[KrisM]

That statement applies to almost any hobby/pursuit. It seems that for anything you get into, a group will snob all the fun out of it. And even within those groups one group will fight another, with the slightest differnent approach, even though to the general population they're doing the same thing. Biking, building models, watching movies, you name it. Any pursuit can be ruined by the my-way-is-better-than-your's.

Over the past few years I've been around a couple of board game guys. Which is more than the vinyl guys I know, come to think about it. One is an older family guy, new grandpa. Very serious about it. Belongs to a club, and has traveled to "play". He's serious, but I get the feeling it's still about getting together with friends/family, and having fun. I'm not much for it, but I can appreciate that aspect of it.
The other guy brought up how much he was into it, but made it clear that he wasn't into any of those old, boring games. He mentioned some game that he and his dad/friends got into for eight hours once. I made a joke, and said something like, "Whoa, how many beers did you guys go through during that?". He replied, "None. We were serious. You can't take your mind off the game". Sounds like a blast.

 

[ameridian]

~
It amuses me to hear reports that the people with higher-end gear are having more trouble enjoying vinyl. Good gear should make your music sound better, not worse!
~

Vinyl playback does come with spurious noises that were never intended to be in the music. A good headphone amp and headphones isn't going to make those noises sound any better.

Sorry, as a member of the non-vinyl tribe, I couldn't resist.

 

[JohnVF]

Vinyl playback does come with spurious noises that were never intended to be in the music. A good headphone amp and headphones isn't going to make those noises sound any better.

Sorry, as a member of the non-vinyl tribe, I couldn't resist.

The Spurious Noises would be a good band name. We'd only release our albums on vinyl. Or maybe acetate.

 

[kirk57]

I agree- its part of being human. It's like the more a pain in the ass something is, the higher the likelihood that its going to attract the people who think that you're not worthy if you're not working for something as hard as they are. Doesn't surprise me that the kids into vinyl are often the same ones into shitty single-speed bikes with no gears or brakes.

FWIW, most of the bragging I see in vinyl has less to do with price and more to do with how much of a pain in the ass somebody is making it out to be. "If you're not pursing it to my degree of obsession you're not doing it right" or "If you just spent money to get a good table instead of spending countless hours tweaking, modifying, and obsessing, you're not worthy".

I knew a guy who spent close to 5 years restoring/modifying a 1932 Ford, cleaning and detailing every single part. This thing is so clean you could eat off of it.
Some would say he's more of a car guy than the guy who just goes and buys a <insert name of new, expensive care here>.

But, if the guy with the new car drives it all over the country, maybe even races it on amateur track events, isn't he more of the car guy? After all, isn't the purpose of a car to be driven?

Similarly, while I like doing DIY on audio equipment, time spent doing that (in my shop) means time not spent listening to music on my best system (in my living room). So is the guy who just goes and buys an expensive table, and just listens to it a lot more of a audiophile than the guy who spends hours building and tweaking and really trying to understand how a turntable works?

I really don't know. I'd probably give a different answer to that question on different days.

 

[JohnVF]

I really don't know, either. I think the reality is, we're not all in the same hobby and many of the debates here are because of that. My record collecting hobby was much different than my turntable collecting hobby and really they have almost nothing in common between them, other than that a turntable is necessary. I go to record shows and you could be playing what you find on a Califone portable and nobody would care. I go to audio gear shows, and you could be listening to the most boring recording out there, but as long as it sounds good, nobody would care.

 

[theophile]

I knew a guy who spent close to 5 years restoring/modifying a 1932 Ford, cleaning and detailing every single part. This thing is so clean you could eat off of it.

Some would say he's more of a car guy than the guy who just goes and buys a new <insert name of new, expensive care here>.

But, if the guy with the new car drives it all over the country, maybe even races it on amateur track events, isn't he more of the car guy? After all, isn't the purpose of a car to be driven?

Similarly, while I like doing DIY on audio equipment, time spent doing that (in my shop) means time not spent listening to music on my best system (in my living room). So is the guy who just goes and buys an expensive table, and just listens to it a lot more of a audiophile than the guy who spends hours building and tweaking and really trying to understand how a turntable works?

I really don't know. I'd probably give a different answer to that question on different days.

I'd be a person who straddles those two examples. I love listening to music. I watch about 2 hours of TV per day and when it is cool enough to close the house up, I'd probably listen to at least 3 to 4 hours of music per day.

I also tweak my system. I've spent the last few years trying to get the best out of my turntable support. Just two days ago I totally rearranged it all again. I went and got $480 worth of acrylic cut, dispensed with the glass shelves and ran with an intuitive idea of how to arrange the Clearaudio Magix and the polymer objects on the middle tier. There has been a sonic pay-off and I'm enjoying the music and the improved sound quality more than ever.

The intuitive idea was to utilise the Magix in a circular arrangement on the bottom with the polymer objects sitting directly above each Magix on the second tier. This way each magix/polymer object being equidistant from the center of gravity of the load, is isolating at the same frequency. This was my biggest bug-bear with both whilst I was experimenting with the previous methods. Now with the circular arrangement: it is problem solved.

Yes. It all smacks of obsessive compulsion. What has driven me, has been the results that I hear. I don't automatically say that everyone should take the route that I've taken, but I will say that experimentation can be interesting(frustrating at times) and when it all comes together, rewarding.

 

[Pandovski]

My personal impression from this hobby is it keeps you listening to music more than usual. It gets you searching for new sound in thrift stores, websites, forums, blog, anywhere. OFC you will never indulge yourself with high explosions of endorphin in your brain from listening to music like you did in your 20s. That has to do with life experience and emotional intelligence, chemistry, character bla bla bla.

When you're twenty you don't really know much about music or gear. But you identify with it. Music is who you are, the group you belong to, the emotional valve to burst through. Hormones do that.

In your 30s, 40s and so on, you already developed taste and genre in music and the storm is over. You are picky to what you listen to and more rational than emotional about it. At this point this hobby makes sense.

You want to hear Beethoven over and over again but on different gear. Otherwise why bother. You heard it, you know it.... it is what it is. You don't want to experience it again and again, but experience it each time differently. Its like a bucket list.

 

[131east23]

True but I find the buying behavior on AK to be counter to almost everything I observe in person in the audio hobby at large. The record stores around here have had a huge swing towards new-vinyl in the past 8 years I've lived here. But it's just one city.

I was in Seattle a month ago and I stumbled into a large "record" store and basically all they had was new vinyl with a few used records here and there. I don't think I had been in a store like this since the 80's and I was very overwhelmed. I was the oldest person in the store (52) by far. I wound up buying a still sealed Foghat album from the 70's for 3.00 dollars (typical AKer purchase) as all of the new vinyl was very pricy. This must be what you are talking about. It was like walking into Peaches in the early 1980's.

 

[JohnVF]

I was in Seattle a month ago and I stumbled into a large "record" store and basically all they had was new vinyl with a few used records here and there. I don't think I had been in a store like this since the 80's and I was very overwhelmed. I was the oldest person in the store (52) by far. I wound up buying a still sealed Foghat album from the 70's for 3.00 dollars (typical AKer purchase) as all of the new vinyl was very pricy. This must be what you are talking about. It was like walking into Peaches in the early 1980's.

That's basically the same experience I have, but substitute something like The Smiths reissues for Foghat. A bunch of kids that somehow got younger than me (I don't recall doing anything to get older) who are into a bunch of bands I've never heard of, buying them as new releases.

That said the 25 year old I just started dating has a vinyl collection of used classic rock, mostly singer-songwriter stuff, played on a very basic Montgomery Wards all-in-one with the speakers side by side facing different directions.

We're a variation of a subset of a niche here. A minority of a subset of a subgenre that is salient to an outlier .

 

[Phototone]

I'm surprised by the 1997 figure. I'd have thought the low point would have been earlier. My memory of 1997 was that nobody was buying or carrying new vinyl. It certainly was much more rare then in the stores I go to.

I'm guessing but I'd bet it was fewer titles with more sales per title back then. As what I find remarkable about the current vinyl wave is the sheer variety of what you can get. A whole lot of titles that probably aren't selling a lot individually, but adding up as a whole.

I think you are slightly misunderstanding the quote. Vinyl was in decline thru the 1990's. 1997 was lower than 1996, etc. It kept declining, then started rising, and now we are back to 1997 sales levels and rising. It is certainly not up to the level of sales that it had when vinyl was the main distribution mode for music. BUT..it is up enough to easily sustain itself.

I think the overall turnover in record sales is much bigger even than the story relates, as this is new record sales, not factoring in the trading and turnover of used record sales.

 

[Scuzzer]

We're a variation of a subset of a niche here. A minority of subset of a subgenre that is salient to an outlier .

I like this one too.