Help me choose

[smokenguns22]

So if you had a choice better a vintage Marantz turntable (6300 or orthe model) and the newer Marantz TT-15S1, which one would you choose?

Give me the pros and cons of each please.

Smokey

 

[smokenguns22]

Thx tnsilver

 

[smokenguns22]

It's apples and oranges. The first was spec'd by the Marantz HQ in California and made by CEC Japan in the late 70's. It's regarded better quality than the rest of the CEC lineup that was usually ordered by bean counters and corner cutters but it's really nothing special. Unfortunately, it's unique external design of high-tech space-age brushed aluminum and veneer commands stupid money these days. Nothing in it that justifies it. It seems CEC could not resist having a go at the design on their own, so many very similar turntables were made for NEC, Toshiba, and others and except for saying 'Marantz' on the deck, they are pretty much the same. These actually still sell for reasonable money. The TT-15S1 is a simplistic modern design, again by an external manufacturer, clear audio, and it goes for VPI class money. It's often criticized for a mediocre tonearm and a disappointing vibrations damping capability of the thin composite deck. The only common denominator between these two turntables is the brand name 'Marantz' that's in reality is loosely associated with the both. IMO, if you can afford the later, you do not want to be looking at the first, and you could certainly get more for your money's worth if you drop the 'Marantz' sentiment.

What would you suggest then?
I have all Marantz 70’s gear and looking to purchase a decent turntable to match with it.

Would like you with semiauto function if possible.

All suggestions would be appreciated

Smokey

 

[smokenguns22]

I seriously suggest, no disrespect intended, that you do some more research. There's a lot more to turntables than the brand. Drive system, for example, belt drive vs. direct drive and idlers. Functionality, which you are aware of, such as automatic, sem-automatic, auto-shutoff, manual. Then, there's a world of tonearms of different classes, effective lengths and effective masses and a universe of carts to go with them, MM and MI and MC's which are HOMC or LOMC, all of which will affect which pre-amp you're going to need b/c Marantz gear from the 70's does not typically come with MC phono stages. When you're ready, start a new thread with that same query and you'll be better equipped to handle the responses.

I totally agree with you on the subject that I need to do more research and I’m have been. I’m fairly new to the vinyl world but have been around the analog world a few years now and finally getting comfortable with part of it.

I guess I’m getting frustrated because it’s so hard nowadays to audition different gear in person and was just looking on a good place to start looking that’s all.

Thanks for your reply and honesty

Smokey

 

[Nat]

Everything said so far is pretty much accurate, but the CEC Marantz tables are perfectly good, and rather better than their flashy appearance would have you suspect. If you have all 70 Marantz gear, and it pleases you, you should buy a 70s Marantz table - the better models are, unsurprisingly, better than the lower end ones, but any of them will play records fine.
The heart wants what it wants, and if it wants what the ears want, it may (or may not) tell you to look beyond Marantz, but if what you want is a brushed metal and wood veneer (or vinyl wood grained veneer in most cases) turntable that looks great and has Marantz on it, that's what you should get. And if it is vinyl, get someone to veneer it for you.

 

[smokenguns22]

Thanks Nat.

 

[DavidTT]

I owned a TT-15 and thought it was a very nice machine. It's made by Clearaudio and every bit on the thing is machined to impressive tolerances. It was literally impossible to tell when the platter was spinning (with the belt off) and it spun forever. The tonearm was impressive to me as well. A couple of dislikes were the lack of a cover and the non-removable head shell. If you become a frequent cartridge swapper, fixed head shells are just a PITA. It's also polarizing in the looks department IMO. If you are looking for a high-quality turntable with the Marantz name on the front, you absolutely will not do better than the TT-15, although minus the vintage aspect of course.

 

[mythless]

tnsilver is absolutely correct. The 6300 is a decent table, motor and arm are nothing special and can be found on other turntables that CEC made.

You have to ask yourself, is the Marantz name worth it for you to have a "complete Marantz" system?

 

[Mister Pig]

I would take the Marantz TT-15S1 over the 6300. It is a pretty well thought out table, has a very nice quality tone arm, and often comes packaged with a nice cartridge. The 6300 is a classic looking table, and I can understand the attraction of the design. However it was never considered a top tier table back in the day, and time has not changed that.

Get the TT-15S1, thats the one I vote for. However I am just a simple country pig, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

Cheers
Mister Pig

 

[smokenguns22]

Thanks Mr Pig, mythless, and David

I really like the looks of the TT15S1 and was just needing a nudge to purchase.

I believe you guys have me sold.

What are some good alternate choices for carts? I’d like to get one extra one just to compare them against each other

Cheers
This forum is awesome

Smokey

 

[Ken Boyd]

The only reason I would consider buying a TT branded Marantz is if I had a mid grade Marantz system and I wanted everything to match. But IMO Marantz doesn't have a really good table, they were better at making Amps and Receivers. Marantz had some really good gear in the day, their old tube amps were highly respected. But none of their turntables would be equal in ranking to those amps. Gear like the Marantz Model 9 and Model 7 out classed any turntable that Marantz had branded in their name. They also have some really good stuff not exported like the SA 10 SACD player. Their non export stuff is really upper tier comparable to equipment like Accuphase.

Overall I would agree with the other post, that the new table would be more capable than their other offerings.

But if I owned their upper line of gear I would rather to outside of the Marantz name for a turntable.
.

 

[mythless]

Finding a modern table with a built in auto lift is tough, as almost 99% are pure manual tables. You would need to get a Q-Up. I cannot comment on modern tables as I haven't look at anything new for the past couple of years. I remember VPI had some entry level offerings and Technics are now back in manufacturing TTs.

If anything "new" you might find a not-so-old Technics SL-1200mkii for a good price. I am sure or at least hopeful they have come down in price since Technics' announcement.

 

[smokenguns22]

Finding a modern table with a built in auto lift is tough, as almost 99% are pure manual tables. You would need to get a Q-Up. I cannot comment on modern tables as I haven't look at anything new for the past couple of years. I remember VPI had some entry level offerings and Technics are now back in manufacturing TTs.

If anything "new" you might find a not-so-old Technics SL-1200mkii for a good price. I am sure or at least hopeful they have come down in price since Technics' announcement.

Yea-I realize that as well. I like to keep my “Marantz” theme going but I’d like a turntable that also sounds decent to go with it.
I’m certainly not look for super upper end turntable but something that would match well with these:

 

[Montycat]

Most real "audiophiles" (and I often cringe at the term) don't dwell too much on a brand matching exercise. Some companies made good this, that or the other thing but most did not make good this, that and the other thing. In other words some did good electronics (like amps), or good speakers, or good turntables but a lot didn't really do them all well. Marantz farmed them out and certainly commissioned some decent stuff but I think they even knew it wasn't their strong suit.

Marantz turntables are ok. The 6300 is nice looking too but very much overpriced with respect to performance.

 

[DavidTT]

If buying the TT-15, I would think about these things:

1) If you look on amazon, you can find "demo" TT-15s around $1100-1200 most often. In many cases, including mine, I ordered the "demo" and the seller shipped me a brand-new unit, factory fresh. FWIW.

2) The TT-15 ships with a Clearaudio VirtuosoV1 Ebony cartridge. The Virtuoso is a cartridge that is now out in V2 and sells new for $800 or so. It's polarizing though because it's a MM cart that is clearly based on the AT95e body, but Clearaudio insists that the stylus is not user replaceable. Of course, the stylus is totally user serviceable, so it seems a little sketchy that CA tries to sell the cart as single-use, but also many users argue that the Virtuoso is not in league with other carts at that price level and represents a bad value. Now, it comes with the TT-15, so it's no skin off the TT-15 buyer's nose all of this noise, but stuff of which to be aware. I liked the Virtuoso and loved that I could swap in a multitude of AT95e styli up to shibata level. The cartridge was not my favorite though in a collection of middling cartridges. Anyway, the TT-15 buyer gets it for free so what is there to complain about? If you happen to like it, you now can brag about your $800 cart and use it for pennies for the rest of your life.

3) Like I said earlier, the TT-15 is manufactured extremely well. It's heavy, and every detail is well thought out. You will never see a platter that spins more precisely. Surface placement of the machine is important because the motor sits in an air-gapped hole in the plinth and to turn on the motor you have to reach under the plinth to hit the motor switch. Some users (read klutz) struggle not to jar the motor and bring it in contact with the plinth at turn on, an issue I never had. Still, be aware. Last, the Satisfy tonearm that comes with the turntable is also available new on the retail market and sells for $1000 or more, depending on retailer. It's a high quality arm with jeweled bearings and effective magnetic anti-skate. I had no issues with the tonearm, except:

4) If the TT-15 used swappable head shells I'd still own it. I just became frustrated with the PITA aspects of cart changes and worried that I would sever a tonearm wire. I also decided that I wanted a no-brainer "toaster" of a turntable for daily use, so I sold the Marantz and bought a PLX-1000. I was very happy with the Marantz and have also been very happy with the PLX-1000. If you get a TT-15, let us know your thoughts.

 

[maxhifi]

I have the Clearaudio Emotion/Satisfy that the Marantz is based on, and I prefer it in sound and appearance to the 1970s Marantz decks I've had the pleasure of working on. Also, the 1970s were sadly a very long time ago, and turntables are full of moving parts, so from a reliability perspective the new one is a much better bet.

If you want an era appropriate vintage deck for your 1970s Marantz system which also looks and sounds great, bypass Marantz and get a restored Thorens TD-160.

 

[kmp14]

So I have to be a little defensive here. I have a 6300, restored it myself. It is my daily driver and sounds real nice. Speed is stable. Yes, overpriced for what it is, since it is similar to other CEC-made tables from the time period, but to me, better than anything you could get new for around the same price. Like anything, you pay a premium for a desired brand name. It is a quality table though. There is one big but: they usually need a good deal of work to get them running right, if they are in decent condition to start with. Mine took a lot of work on the motor (replacing caps and other components) to get it spinning consistently at a stable speed. If you have one in your sights that is in good condition, and better yet refurbished, I for one think you would be happy.

Honestly, I don't think I have the golden ears of others here, so take that as you will. I like my 6300 (and my H/K Rabcos, and my Empire 398, etc, etc). All that being said, boy would I love to have a restored Thorens!

 

[maxhifi]

name. It is a quality table though. There is one big but: they usually need a good deal of work to get them running right, if they are in decent condition to start with. Mine took a lot of work on the motor (replacing caps and other components) to get it spinning consistently at a stable speed. If you have one in your sights that is in good condition, and better yet refurbished, I for one think you would be happy.

That's my main reservation about the 6300. If you're a tech, or a fairly advanced hobbyist, you only need to worry about the condition of the "bones", and it can end up a very nice table. On the other hand, if you have to rely on someone else to get it going, this can turn into a nightmare, because some "techs" can do more harm than good, and in the process charge a lot of money, leading to gross disillusionment with vintage gear. And there's always a chance that "restored" means some putz did the bare minimum to make it "work", and still expects top dollar.

Something like a Thorens is by comparison dead simple... New belt, bit of oil, and you're up and running. Even someone who is almost all thumbs can handle that sort of DIY. I'm not condemning the 6300, or CEC direct drive turntables by any stretch of the imagination I'm just saying it's less of a safe bet, in terms of getting something plug and play.

 

[kmp14]

Something like a Thorens is by comparison dead simple... New belt, bit of oil, and you're up and running. Even someone who is almost all thumbs can handle that sort of DIY. I'm not condemning the 6300, or CEC direct drive turntables by any stretch of the imagination I'm just saying it's less of a safe bet, in terms of getting something plug and play.

Can't argue with that. Simpler is usually the way to go. My 6300 was a bunch of headaches before I got it running reliably.

 

[Nat]

I can't disagree with anything that has been said, but I can reinterpret it. Or try to.
No argument that there aren't any vintage Marantz tables (other than the SLT 12, which would make restoring the 6300 look like child's play) that are really better than than their competitors. (And to say that they aren't up to the 7 and 9 is to state the obvious - neither are any other Marantz components of any sort (and precious few of anybody else's).)
But the context of the OP's question is that he wants something to work with his 70s/80s Marantz system. If you want to point out that the Marantz tables aren't the best out there, you probably ought to also note that the rest of his system isn't either. Marantz (or Superscope as it was by then) made very good equipment, but not necessarily (or, even, ever) better than other higher end mass market makers of the same time. I'd gladly admit that Marantz stuff looks great, sounds good, and that it, like most of the other Japanese equipment of the time, has been stunningly durable. But are Marantz receivers/integrateds/separates actually better than HK, Sansui, Kenwood, Pioneer, and so on? Maybe in some ways, yes, but in other ways, no. And are any of them better than top of the line separates of the time? I doubt that many would argue that.
I suspect that most of the Marantz tables of the time would match his system, and would sound quite nice. The Clearaudio rebadge is a fine, and probably better table, but it doesn't match his system, and it costs a fair penny. Other alternatives wouldn't match his system, and might also cost a fair penny.
I don't care at all about having a matching system, but clearly the OP does, or he wouldn't have one. And many people don't care about how equipment looks, but many do, and I can't help suspecting that the Marantz enthusiasts do respond to their very attractive looks. The fact that he is looking for a table and asking suggests that vinyl isn't his only, and most important, source. So maybe he should get something that will please him everytime he looks at it. That is a good start to a listening session.
This from someone who loves Peugeots. Every morning when I walked out of the house and saw my 505 wagon, I was delighted. All of its idiosyncrasies and repair issues paled in comparison to the exuberance of owning such a beautiful and fun car. Until it didn't.
But the OP, if he ever gets fed up`can always sell the table, and might even make money on it, since Marantz fans are legion.