Help Needed Reusing an Old Desktop Computer to Stream HD Audio from the Internet.

[macman007]

I've been tossing around the idea of reusing one of my old Dell Dimension 8400 Desktop computers as a high definition 2 channel Music Streamer. This would hopefully connect my stereo to Internet audio (subscription services) sources, such as Tidal, Amazon HD Music, and Spotify. I'd like to use it for listening my Sirius XM service, as well as possibly to download, store, and access purchased HD, FLAC, or WAV files, from HD Tracks for example. I have Broadband Cable internet access, as well as a basic in-home local network, with WIFi and 10/100 ethernet cable hardwired to our computer-based devices.

Currently, I own a McIntosh MS300 Music Server which I have ripped many of my Redbook CD's to, and which may possibly used to store downloaded Flac files I've purchased online as well. The MS300 currently having its 300GB HD upgraded to a 750 GB HD which is what came in the larger MS750 Music Server. Down the road I may elect to upgrade it further to use a 1TB SS HD, if one it be made to work within the parameters of the operating system without compatibility issues. The MS300's power supply has been bulletproofed. All the electrolytic caps were recently upgraded to 2000 hour 105C Low ESR high ripple current Panasonic caps for continued stability and long life.

The Dell desktop PC's I own are both genuine P4's @ 4ghz. Both motherboards have 4GB of DDR4 (IIRC) RAM installed. The audio card is a Soundblaster PCI 192-24 bit, featuring 5.1 surround / 2.0 Stereo Analog outputs, as well as SPDIF and Optical Digital outputs. The video cards are Nvidia G-Force GTO units, connecting to a 21" Dell Widescreen LED monitor. Both desktop computers still have the factory Windows XP operating system. I own-possess all the original Dell factory supplied CD software discs, so I can do a clean install of XP if it is to be reused as OS. There are 2 optical drives in each tower, one is a Sony CD 24X ROM-CD Burner, the other a Sony CD/DVD ROM-Burner, as well as the ancient 3.5" floppy, USB 2.0 and 3.0, jacks, and several multi-size SD Card ports. I own multiple hard drives, ranging in size from 250GB to 1TB, for both towers. If need be, I'll buy new HD's, SSD (s) if they will enhance the build and operational functionality.

Both PC's have replacement power supplies, upgraded to Corsair 500 watt units. The electrolytic caps on both motherboards have been verified as either A: not among those date codes known to fail, or B: replaced by me using high quality 105C 2000 hr Low ESR Panasonic caps. Both desktops currently work, without any known issues.

I'd plan to convert 1 tower completely for this purpose alone, keeping the other as a spare in case the primary tower fails down the road. Ideally, I think I'd like the converted machine to use a Linux OS, or something similar, to keep the processor from being bogged down by the bloated Windows XP OS and Bloatware that comes with Dell computers. Others here will know better. If it is suggested that I use a Windows OS, I'd like to upgrade said OS to a stand-alone clean install of Windows 10, if advisable. I do not have any experience doing this, not with Linux or any other OS. I do have experience building a computer from components, but not a dedicated music computer. This is something I've never tried before, so you will have to forgive my questions, them being basic, rudimentary, asking for help or clarification on things that may be immediately obvious to the completely computer savvy, as well as to those who have done such a build before.

The idea here is to repurpose an otherwise old, but well functioning computer, saving money for media and other audio pursuits. The modified computer will ultimately be connected to my audio system via either the Soundblaster 192-24 card 2 channel analog outputs, the SPDIF, or Optical outputs, to my McIntosh MX135 pre-processor, which essentially is a Mc C45 preamp with 7.1 surround capability as well. Things such as a SSHD, upgraded Sound Card (if advisable), new OS, DAC etc. can be purchased new, used, or in the case of an OS, open-sourced, if it exists, and is applicable/advisable the build.

Ultimately, I want to be able to listen to high quality high definition streaming audio, as well as see the album art on the PC monitor, LED flat screen TV, or 1080 HD projector in my audio room. I do not necessarily need to stream to other rooms within my home, to other computers, or outside my home. If it is simple enough and advisable to do, access for other family members to listen to the music content streamed or downloaded from their Smartphone(s), Tablets, laptops, Kindle, or other device across the in-home network would be a welcome bonus if it does not affect the overall sound quality of the main 2 channel audio system. Above all, this is for 2 channel only, HD Audio Streaming, FLAC or WAV files, and Sirius XM if possible. MP3, even 384kbs MP3 is not really something I am interested in pursuing. Traditionally, I'm not fond of the 'underwater' sound quality I typically hear whenever listening to MP3 based files.

There is no such thing as a stupid question, so if anyone here has suggestions for improvements-enhancements to make this a better user-builder friendly project, (other than using another donor computer) I'm all ears and eyes. Please do not assume that I know something, as in many cases, breaking things down to their most basic everyday terms will be most helpful for me to understand what it is I am supposed to be doing and how I am supposed to be doing it.

Above all, this should be a fun project, and perhaps other folks will follow along, even attempt to do their own similar build along this journey. Hopefully, I've covered all my goals and requirements clearly. If not, please ask me. Guidance is why I'm here, If i'm not asking the right questions you can't guide me. That said, perhaps we will all learn a thing or three along the way..

Well alright, let's get started. Let the games begin!

 

[swechsler]

I've been looking to do something similar, although the computer that I have is a bit newer than yours. One thing about the P4, and you may already know this, is that it's a real power hog, so this isn't an ideal setup if you're planning on leaving it turned on all the time. If you are, you could probably pick up a used/refurbed 10-year-old business PC for about a hundred bucks and in a year or so recover the cost you've spent on electricity (I may be exaggerating a little, but that PC would probably also come with a more recent Windows license and more memory, and so would make the project easier). FWIW, I recycled all my P4s several years ago, and they'd been sitting around idle for several years before then. If you decide to continue with the PC, I'd definitely recommend going with an SSD (SSHD is really not a correct term, since HD implies a spinning disk).

For what you're looking to do, though, I wonder if you might be better off with a Google Chromecast hooked to your TV and feeding the TV's digital out to your receiver. Have you looked into any alternatives before you decided that you definitely wanted to use the PC?

Regarding hooking an SSD to the Mac Music server, this is probably doable. Normally I wouldn't put an SSD into a device with an operating system that's not meant to use one, because to maximize the drive's life you need to have TRIM support. However, since you're not going to be doing a lot of updates to the drive, it will probably last a long time (although I would recommend backing it up).

If you haven't guessed, I work in IT, and have been building computers for about 25 years, but this is my first music PC build (although I have built several NASes that I use to serve media to my TVs and stereos around the house).

 

[macman007]

I don't plan on keeping the unit on 24-7, only when listening to music, several hours a day. I know the P4's were great space heaters, which is why I upgraded the PS's for both towers using modestly priced Corsair units. Thank you for correcting my use of SSHD to SSD. I want to be as clear as possible in my posts and replies. The idea is to repurpose these dinosaurs, not get another newer dino, even though you are likely correct, a newer Core 2 or similar may be easier in some respects. That said, with a streamlined modern Windows 10 OS or bare bones OS like Linux, and based on what I'm reading, for this purpose, audio only with a basic GUI, the P4 4 ghz with 4GB RAM should be more than sufficient to stream HD audio services from a fast broadband connection. Downloading FLAC files is also fairly resource friendly, one which a P4 should have more than enough power to accomplish. Read-access times on the SSD's I've used are so quick compared to the older HD's. That coupled with a basic OS, and one of those portable mice that look like remote controls, and since it's only doing music, not other stuff, I'm thinking performance should be snappy, even with a P4. A keyboard will only be connected to edit metadata or perform required maintenance, which should be all but minimal with a SSD, the occasional virus sweep. I do plan to keep virus software going in the background at all times, just in case, unless otherwise advised to do so.

I do plan on off-line back ups for all the music files, as well as the Redbook CD's stored on the MS300 with the new 750GB HD. The MS300 rips then stores everything in FLAC or in MP3 up to 384. You can rip and burn as well as record analog sources with the MS300 and MS750, which is a big plus and reason I plan to use it as long as I can keep it running. If my CD collection grows beyond 750GB, eventually I plan on buying another MS unit, likely a 750. Both units will be connected to a UPC and kept turned off when not in use for extended periods to preserve the hardware and the HD. If I upgrade to the SSD, I may revisit the idea of shutting them down when not in use. However as they are around 10 years old (and 6-7000 when new) no longer sold, I will do what I can to preserve and enjoy them as long as possible, even buy spare parts as they are available.

If I really like the whole music streaming thing (never really done it before) I'll most likely upgrade to a newer desktop computer, something with a Core 5 or Core 7, something cheap but decent. Thats down the road, if I take to the whole streaming adventure. In the meantime I'll use this opportunity to learn and experiment.

 

[RTally]

I would imagine your biggest concern should be software. If you plan on running Windows XP, the default browser will not likely allow you to connect and stream. Also, you will be limited in the music players that you can run to play local files. If you have to transcode any of those music files, good luck finding software that will work.

Upgrading the OS would be a very good decision. I do not believe your hardware is Win 10 compatible, but you should be able to run Win 7.

The best option for upgrading the OS is Linux.

 

[drew_t]

Those computers are so ancient and obsolete that I would not use them for anything.

 

[swechsler]

I think your best option is Linux. There is no free upgrade of XP to anything newer, and after you've purchased a Windows 7 or 10 license, you're halfway to the purchase price of a better computer. While I'm a Linux guy, it's only at the server level; I've never really had a Linux desktop for anything other than testing. That said, Ubuntu seems to be a pretty popular distribution, although with any Linux you should be prepared to get your hands dirty by working with the shell (command prompt), since it's not nearly as plug and play as MacOS or Windows. The Linux ecosystem is pretty vast, so you should be able to find a streamer that works, although I'd recommend researching that before starting your build. Also make sure that your peripherals (specifically your soundcard) are supported. Back when your system was made, many manufacturers were resistant to providing Linux drivers.

One thing that occurred to me: most of my P4s (most of which were Dells of about the same vintage as yours) used ATA rather than SATA drives, so to hook up an SSD, you may need an adapter. They're not expensive, but it's something you should be aware of. And presumably you want to keep costs low; it's one thing to reuse old equipment (an aim that I fully support, by the way), it's another to spend more than it would cost to replace it with a superior system.

ETA: thinking about it some more, some P4 systems shipped with ATA drives but still had SATA connectors, unused, on the motherboard. If that's the case, all you will need is a SATA cable.

 

[rajoo]

Why use an ancient noisy computer outputting digital audio with a Soundblaster sound card when this can be done more elegantly using a fanless Inel Nuc with a toslink digital output?

 

[sqlsavior]

The whole point of streaming is convenience. Maintaining 10 year old operating systems or installing new ones is a tremendous PITA, IMO. And a powerful, heat-producing machine will have the fan on, making it unsuitable. I have a similar ethos about waste and re-use, but you're really swimming upstream, as my old boss would say.

Streaming gadgets can be had for $40. Many here have been ripping and buying digital files for 20 years now - it's a lot of work, and I just wouldn't start now.

 

[Dneprrider]

If you do go the Linux route with the older PC try https://www.daphile.com and see if you like it. I am using an older PC with this installed to rip my cd's to FLAC and can be run headless to output audio to an external system. It is super easy to install.

 

[macman007]

I would imagine your biggest concern should be software. If you plan on running Windows XP, the default browser will not likely allow you to connect and stream. Also, you will be limited in the music players that you can run to play local files. If you have to transcode any of those music files, good luck finding software that will work.


Upgrading the OS would be a very good decision. I do not believe your hardware is Win 10 compatible, but you should be able to run Win 7.

The best option for upgrading the OS is Linux.

Well that is why I was thinking about something Linux based or a later Windows OS. The former being resource friendly. This is a project, not instant gratification. if I wanted to spend the money for a turnkey solution I'm sure there are many in price from 100-10,000$, with a purpose built modern computer somewhere between, I agree in this instance, something like Linux or similar will be the best way forward.

Those computers are so ancient and obsolete that I would not use them for anything.

Surprisingly, they work well considering, once you free up resources and remove bloatware. Cutting edge? 15 years ago maybe. That said, a P4 4GHZ with 4GB of DDR4 and a SSD should be plenty for the tasks at hand, essentially WAV. and FLAC file storage, management and playback, with a bare bones GUI and OS.

I think your best option is Linux. There is no free upgrade of XP to anything newer, and after you've purchased a Windows 7 or 10 license, you're halfway to the purchase price of a better computer. While I'm a Linux guy, it's only at the server level; I've never really had a Linux desktop for anything other than testing. That said, Ubuntu seems to be a pretty popular distribution, although with any Linux you should be prepared to get your hands dirty by working with the shell (command prompt), since it's not nearly as plug and play as MacOS or Windows. The Linux ecosystem is pretty vast, so you should be able to find a streamer that works, although I'd recommend researching that before starting your build. Also make sure that your peripherals (specifically your soundcard) are supported. Back when your system was made, many manufacturers were resistant to providing Linux drivers.

One thing that occurred to me: most of my P4s (most of which were Dells of about the same vintage as yours) used ATA rather than SATA drives, so to hook up an SSD, you may need an adapter. They're not expensive, but it's something you should be aware of. And presumably you want to keep costs low; it's one thing to reuse old equipment (an aim that I fully support, by the way), it's another to spend more than it would cost to replace it with a superior system.

ETA: thinking about it some more, some P4 systems shipped with ATA drives but still had SATA connectors, unused, on the motherboard. If that's the case, all you will need is a SATA cable.

These computers indeed have ATA and SATA connections. The current HDs' installed are connected via ATA. A 1 TB SSD should be plenty of room, and transferrable to another system, if desired down the road. Again I agree, Linux, Ubuntu, or something similar looks best OS option going forward for an aged P4,.. 4GHZ with 4GB or DDR4 RAM should be plenty of horsepower to get this job done.

There won't be any net surfing, Youtube, Chrome, no games, no office software, PDF, nothing unessential that doesn't have to do with the streaming of, storage of, downloading, and playback of 2 channel music encoded in FLAC, WAV, etc.

The SB soundcard I have was the best cutting edge 192-24 option you could buy in 2005. IMO it should be more than competent for what it needs to do. If I use the SPDIF or Optical outs, I can use the DAC in my McIntosh MX135, which has the Texas Instruments ‘Aureus’ digital processing chip capable of 1200 million floating point operations per second. Lots of horsepower, and its own 192/24 dacs that are really good. There are better MX units generations newer available today for 12-14k$, with less flexibility and no tape loops I use a C2500 run in pass thru for 2 channel sound as well.. At the heart of the MX135 is a C45 preamp, which is no sonic slouch and know the be the best sounding of all the MX units from an audio 2 channel stanpoint.

Yea, It only does 7.1 surround, but honestly, my 7.1 room sounds better running older Dolby Digital, Pro Logic or DBX encode-decode than most peoples rooms with modern 15.2.2 surround. Either way multi channel has nothing to do with 2 channel music, other than the rare instances I spin up a music concert, video, or SACD/DVD-A that has multichannel content.

So with audio set to digital out from the computer's sound card to the MX135 SPDIF-Optical in, the MX's on board DAC's do the work, and one less thing for the computer to do.

Why use an ancient noisy computer outputting digital audio with a Soundblaster sound card when this can be done more elegantly using a fanless Intel Nuc with a toslink digital output?

I don't want to shell out for a modern ready to go solution, nor do I want to tie up one of my newer CORE 5 or CORE 7 laptops. Either digital output from the soundcard to the MX135 - C2500 combo is easy, even if I don't want to use the 2 channel analog out from the 192-24 Sound Blaster card.. The fans I installed into the 8400's are much more quiet, than stock, just like the replacement fan in my MS300 music server. The Intel NUC that I recently looked into bare bones cost well over 1K$$, not exactly cheap, and serious overkill for what I'll need this project to do.

We're talking about a glorified CD player, one that can RIP, Burn, Store, Stream Online Music, download purchased FLAC or WAV. files, HD audio 2 channel files, accessed VIA a minimal stripped down browser, and GUI maybe something similar to Foobar 2000, or another resource easy intuitive music management program. It needs to be able to manipulate music files, access them, search for them locally or on specific websites only, add missing metadata, navigating the stored music files, one of several music download sites (one at a time), and Sirius XM. That is all. If I can access internet radio or local stations online simulcasts that's a bonus, but not a requirement. It will need to do nothing else. IDC if it can share-stream to any other devices, smartphones, inside the home network or out of. This is for me, for 2 channel music, on 1 system, ands thats all it needs to do. The OS that is chosen can even be simple enough to boot from a USB memory stick.

. Hopefully there will be a stripped down OS like Linux or Ubuntu suited for the purpose at hand. Once again, I'm not going to use-dedicate one of my 3 good Intel Core 5 or Core 7 laptops with HDMI outs. They are used for online, business stuff, or fun stuff. None of them I would want on a shelf in my music room. My everyday machine is a Toshiba laptop from Walmart, bought in 2013 for 349$ o Black Friday. It has a AMD Vision processor, 8GB RAM and Windows 8.1. Honestly it's slower than the P4 Dell 8400's ever were no matter what you do with it. But I can download, burn and rip CD;s manipulate-access WAV. and FLAC files. If this POS can do it the P4 Dells can!

The finished tower can go in the closet, out of site and earshot, I doubt at the SPL levels I typically listen (92db or more) at, that a little computer fan noise will be an issue. The heat maybe will help heat this room that's cold in winter anyway, a little warmer just like tube gear does.

The whole point of streaming is convenience. Maintaining 10 year old operating systems or installing new ones is a tremendous PITA, IMO. And a powerful, heat-producing machine will have the fan on, making it unsuitable. I have a similar ethos about waste and re-use, but you're really swimming upstream, as my old boss would say.

Streaming gadgets can be had for $40. Many here have been ripping and buying digital files for 20 years now - it's a lot of work, and I just wouldn't start now.

I get it, I do. Again, this as much about fun as experimenting as recycling the stuff on hand. Stuff like a SSD and OS or other software I expect to buy. The rest is a combo of DIY, inspiration and online help from folks like you all here. I seriously doubt I'd be satisfied with a solution that cost 40$ either way. And I can proudly say at the end of the day, I built this and it works great. If it doesn't I'm out a SSD that can be used elsewhere and the cost of the OS, which can also be used elsewhere.

If you do go the Linux route with the older PC try https://www.daphile.com and see if you like it. I am using an older PC with this installed to rip my cd's to FLAC and can be run headless to output audio to an external system. It is super easy to install.

Thank you for the link, I'll check out daphile and see what's there. Lets keep the ideas coming, and maintain a "it can work" attitude, not just automatically condemning the concept and goals behind the hardware before we even get started. I know what many think of the aged P4, lets get beyond that caveat, I get it the P4 isn't even a good boat anchor. BUT I think it's got more than enough umph for the simple tasks at hand, with some very light internet access, and downloading music only with metadata, track info and simple album art, if the music program that ends up being used doesn't do that automatically.

Above all else think positive, maintain a can-do attitude. If this works, that means anyone can do it with a computer that you can still pretty much find anywhere for 25 bucks. I need-want to update all my other computers to Windows 10 anyway, so if we end up using a stripped down clean instal of Windows 10, I needed to buy one anyway. The specs on Windows 10 say the P4 4GHZ with 4GB DDR4 and a 250GB HD is plenty of resources for it to operate. Actually, its supposed to be less resource dependant than XP, Vista 8. and 8.1. We shall see indeed..

 

[ldatlof]

The P4 will be more than adequate if running some flavor of Linux. Your project can be accomplished with the computing power of a Raspberry Pi. I second the Daphile recommendation.

Using Daphile you could access everything from one of your laptops so there is no need for a monitor and keyboard. Good luck.

 

[macman007]

This Daphile application looks like just the ticket. I have a Monitor-LED 32" TV on the table in front of the DVD-Bluray's when I don't want to fire up the projector and burn lamp hours. There is a mouse I've seen that looks like a remote that allows access and connects via a dongle. once set up, keyboard and traditional mouse are not needed. Being able to use the laptop to access as well will be icing on the cake! My smartphone is going to be used as the remote to control everything along with the Harmony remote I have as well. I'm in the process of picking an IR Blaster that allows the Samsung A-20 Smartphones to be used as all-in-one remote solution.

I can't wait to get this project going! It's going to be so much fun to build this and functional as well if everything works the way Daphile readme information suggests. Best of all I get to reuse hardware I already have. If for some reason Daphile is no longer supported, I'm not out much. Part of the big problem with computer based music server units of any kind is the limited support and product life, since computer technology changes every 6-18 months. This renders the hardware and support for software obsolete after a few short years. Then you begin all over again, buying new hardware, transferring the media and installing it within the system.

Something like this with older hardware makes sense and is futureproof, provided the software company continues supporting the product and the needs or desires from the user don't outpace what the hardware is capable of. I was looking at something like the Bluesound Vault 2i, but it doesn't do everything I wan't, does what my MS300 already does and has limitations that people often complain about. Plus, it's 1300$ and your all-in, with hopes the product MIGHT improve, or company doesn't go out of business or discontinue product support a couple years in. Oppo owners are facing this right now and I almost bought an Oppo unit.

Mcintosh/D&M Holdings did the the same thing using their Escient Fireball models to base the MS300 and MS750 units upon. Power supplies in all were sub-par, and not upgraded for the MS units. Support went away once Escient folded. Then Mc no longer supported the units. Panurgy took over repairs and did a piss poor job for a lot of money spent. After spending 6K$ to purchase a MS750, this should never have happened, no matter what. Technology didn't change as much as sufficient safeguards were not built in.

It was only because so many hard headed MS owners like myself took it upon ourselves to figure out the weaknesses, known flaws, and failure points, that allowed us to get our MS units up and running again, able to continue on keeping them running an long as we want them to. Power supplies and hard drive longevity were the weaknesses, and once you have the PS good, a copy of the firmware, changing HD's is easy provided you backed up all your files in the event of eventual HD failure. The only time the motherboard fails is if the PS has a catastrophic event that takes it out, as it is a simple board and processor

This is the basic reason why I'm doing things the way I am on this particular project. Why spend 1300$ or 7K$ for a unit that yo can build for pennies, using an old on hand computer, which is more than capable of performing these simple tasks that don't require modern hardware and power? Plus, I have 2 complete working units on hand for spare parts if I ever need them or want to set up a second unit. SSD drives are so cheap now, it makes more sense to go with a one or 2 TB SSD than reuse the 250Gb HD's I have. They can be used for offline backup, which I may use the other machine for, keep it updated with everything on machine 1 and unplugged just in case the other unit pukes out on me.

 

[DChen]

First it's 4 GB of DDR2 RAM not DDR4. That chipset of that generation can only take 4 GB DDR2 RAM which you already have.

As for power and functionality. For what you are doing it will be plenty fast enough. My current "portable" music player is a Thinkpad X200s also have 4 GB RAM with a 1.8 GHZ dual core laptop CPU. For Windows 7 and dedicated music player it's plenty fine. I got a 1 TB HDD in there with is plenty to store all my FLAC and WAV music files. This Thinkpad is for the road as I got 2 modern desktops serving that purpose at home with 1 of the desktop acting as the central heart of my music system.

The key to all of this is a good DAC from computer to my preamp. I got 3 different DACs for that purpose, each serving a different function with cost ranging from $100 on the cheap side to $1000 on the expensive side. As part of my traveling kit with the Thinkpad is a cheap USB input DAC that allows me to hook up the "source" to a conventional preamp via RCA. Total cost for laptop, DAC and cables is around $200 and is a pretty sweet setup.

As for what you are proposing, from a hardware and OS perspective it's doable. However the main concern I have is the heat.....which equals a noisy machine. Intel's P4 was, IMO, the worse and hottest Intel chips they ever produced so far. It was so bad that AMD was kicking their butts with the AMD 64 chips at the time. The P4 ran hot and inefficient. My main desktop dedicated machine is fairly powerful but I spent a lot of time, effort and money to make it as quiet as possible such as installing a fanless but powerful power supply into case design to be quiet and water cooled.

Having said that your system, well very old, is still doable. I would consider Western Digital Purple Drive which are design to be used in PVR and surveillance. They are design to run all the time, run cool and run long but not as fast. Of course a SSD will trump everything but it's quite expensive. This drive should last you till the next system. I partition my drives into 2. One partition is C drive which gets Win 7 and all programs. The other partition is D drive and is my data and only data. In this way C drive I'm not to concern about. I can reinstall the OS and programs at anytime. The data on my D drive is the most important thing. I back up D drive onto 4-5 other drives and this is done simply by copying and pasting. In this manner I still have my Pascal computer programs from high school (1987-90).

On my main music server and portable Thinkpad, D is actually a 1 TB separate HDD drive. C drive is a 120 GB SSD (cheap) that is loaded with Win 7, MusicBee, and some music dedicated software. Back up is really simple. Simply copy the entire contents of D drive on the main music desktop computer. The D drive on the Thinkpad has the exact data is D drive on the music machine which in turn is backed twice more.

After that you need to consider what and how you want to use the machine. That will determine what other hardware accessory and software you need.

Why Win 7? I prefer it over Win 7. Also I've been running a Win 7 homegroup for over 10 years and I've become accustom to how easy and convenient it is to share data, music, video and printer with the other machines. Win 10 had this feature but removed it. I could reconfig my network but I prefer Win 7.

If you want to go with Linux, I recommend Linux Mint as that's what I got running on a few machines. It's pretty slick and polish with lots of community and driver support. However expect a learning curve and some frustration while you are learning. But honestly there's no need go to Linux. With an SSD I even manage to get my Thinkpad A31 working decently, albeit painfully, on Win 7. Had I wanted to only load Win 7 and Musicbee and use that old clunker from Dec 2002 as a music server, it would have worked. Browsing the net those is slow with that thing. That Thinkpad A31 is 2 generation older than your P4 with a single core laptop CPU that your P4 will run circles around. I keep my A31 around because it has a floppy drive and is almost too fast to run my computer programs from high school.

Anyhow sorry for the long post. Hope this helps a bit.

 

[macman007]

So, with Daphile, I don't need any other OS? No windows nothing, just the Linux based Daphile install files?

Pardon a few dumb questions, below are the minimum specs which I more than easily surpass:

Computer to run Daphile:
▪ Processor: x86 architecture based, minimum i486
I have a P4 4GHZ processor, more than enough?
I won't have to run any incarnation of Windows or similar OS, correct?

▪ RAM: 512MB
Currently my RAM is maxed out at 4GB DDR4, enough?

▪ Network adapter: Ethernet and/or wireless
I'm using a Linksys PCI bus Wireless Adapter, that is OK?

▪ Bootable storage device: 2GB (SATA, IDE or USB)
Haven't chosen a SSD or HDD as of yet. Any Recommendations?
I can use a HDD or SSD of any size as long as it exceeds the minimum requirements listed, correct? SSD Preferred..

▪ Audio device: internal (PCI), USB or FireWire
Current audio device is a Sound Blaster 192/24 PCI sound card with 2 channel analog and SPDIF/Optical digital outputs, sufficient? Should I be looking at an outboard USB DAC down the road, and if so which one (s) are recommended based on personal experiences?

◦ Another web browser equipped device to access Daphile
The web browser used by remote devices can be anything the remote device uses and the Daphile software will recognise and work with it? Granted I need to set up network access during the Daphile installation and configuration for this function to work properly..

Thanks for answering my questions. I did peruse the readme file, but it's a little stiff. I may need help and will certainly be asking questions once I gather everything together and begin the install/setup

Tell me based on your personal observations what you think of Daphile and how does it affect your listening pleasure?

Thanks for all the informative posts so far. Daphile exactly what I was looking for, as it satisfies all my goals and then some!

 

[rajoo]

I currently have two Intel Nuc setups; one is a Nuc and the other is an Asus version which has a slightly larger footprint, both with i5 processors running Win 10. They both cost me less than $150 used, I did swap out the HD for a 256GB SSD, so total cost is just under $200 each. So I don't know where you get the $1K cost.

Go for it, it's your time and money.

 

[ldatlof]

So, with Daphile, I don't need any other OS? No windows nothing, just the Linux based Daphile install files?

The OS will be Linux. No need for Windows or any other OS.

Pardon a few dumb questions, below are the minimum specs which I more than easily surpass:

Computer to run Daphile:
▪ Processor: x86 architecture based, minimum i486
I have a P4 4GHZ processor, more than enough?
I won't have to run any incarnation of Windows or similar OS, correct?

The P4 will be enough and you don't need any other operating systems.

▪ RAM: 512MB
Currently my RAM is maxed out at 4GB DDR4, enough?

More than enough

▪ Network adapter: Ethernet and/or wireless
I'm using a Linksys PCI bus Wireless Adapter, that is OK?

WiFi definitely will work. I use USB adapters that are 802.11bgn. I am not sure about your adapter.

▪ Bootable storage device: 2GB (SATA, IDE or USB)
Haven't chosen a SSD or HDD as of yet. Any Recommendations?
I can use a HDD or SSD of any size as long as it exceeds the minimum requirements listed, correct? SSD Preferred..

I would go with a 256GB SSD because they are faster than HDDs. Linux has a small footprint. I have run Linux with 16GB thumb drives.

▪ Audio device: internal (PCI), USB or FireWire
Current audio device is a Sound Blaster 192/24 PCI sound card with 2 channel analog and SPDIF/Optical digital outputs, sufficient? Should I be looking at an outboard USB DAC down the road, and if so which one (s) are recommended based on personal experiences?

I would start with sound card and see how it sounds. Some people hear noise from the computer when using a soundcard. Then an outboard DAC becomes necessary. On the low end of DAC market Schiit and Topping seem to get good reviews on this site.

◦ Another web browser equipped device to access Daphile
The web browser used by remote devices can be anything the remote device uses and the Daphile software will recognise and work with it? Granted I need to set up network access during the Daphile installation and configuration for this function to work properly..

Yes the remote device (PC, tablet or even a phone) needs a browser to access the Daphile machine. Any of the major browsers will do.

Thanks for answering my questions. I did peruse the readme file, but it's a little stiff. I may need help and will certainly be asking questions once I gather everything together and begin the install/setup

Tell me based on your personal observations what you think of Daphile and how does it affect your listening pleasure?

Thanks for all the informative posts so far. Daphile exactly what I was looking for, as it satisfies all my goals and then some!

Daphile is Logitech Media Server (LMS), Squeezelite and a Linux OS. It is all in one .iso image which makes it easy to install and configure. I use the same apps but I have separated the server function to its own dedicated machine (a Dell Mini Tower server with a Xeon CPU and 4GB of RAM running Ubuntu server). This machine is complete overkill for running LMS. I didn't want a computer next to my stereo.

The player is a Raspberry Pi running squeezelite and is located in another room on the other side of the house. A Topping D30 is connected to the Pi via USB.

The system has bit perfect playback and supports many subscription services. It plays all sorts of files and will play up to DSD512. It will also play multiple players simultaneously if you ever decide to expand to other stereos. The price is certainly right. Free. I also suggest using the Material skin for LMS it is much nicer than the classic skin. It looks great on a smartphone.

I use this system everyday and it sounds terrific. Don't forget to backup your flac and wav files to another drive. Because this system is basically the software for the discontinued Logitech Squeezebox there is a large community of users on the internet to help if you ever get stuck.

 

[macman007]

The NUC setups I looked at were new not used. By the second look albeit quick at 1K plus I decided to go with my original plan. Depending on how much I like the streaming technology and how it integrates with life and system, I'm not opposed to or against building an I5 or I7 based unit in a nice quiet case, more audiophile geared hardware components, including the PS, cables, cooling etc. I want to know before I sink a ton of money (relative) into.something that I'll like and enjoy it enough to justify the cost.
Either way SSD is needed, might as well get a 1TB, since storage is so cheap and reusable for anything I can use it for.

Apologies for confusing my RAM memory type, ddr2 with ddr4. My next question is since its recommended to keep the Daphile OS on a separate drive , would a regular small HDD suit the purpose for the OS and a 1TB SSD be ok for everything else, meaning all the music files?

Sorry about all the questions! Just trying to get it all straight before I start.

 

[Dneprrider]

I picked up a used 1TB hdd and use that on my setup. One hdd for both the OS and music storage. The install setup does it all and sets up the hdd with an os partition and music files partion. Just get the install files. Make a usb boot drive and go. You can have it done in minutes.

 

[RTally]

My next question is since its recommended to keep the Daphile OS on a separate drive , would a regular small HDD suit the purpose for the OS and a 1TB SSD be ok for everything else, meaning all the music files?

Sorry about all the questions! Just trying to get it all straight before I start.

I suggest doing it the other way around. Keep your OS on the SSD and your data on a spinning disk. That way, you have fast access to your OS files, including cache. And since data is not accessed that frequently and there is no need for fast access, why waste the cash. For the same size disk, spinners are less expensive than SSDs.

i use a 2009 MacBook for my music server. The OS is on an SSD with a 2 TB USB HDD for my music storage. I am using USB 2, which is slow, and I have no trouble keeping up with my music play.

 

[swechsler]

I suggest doing it the other way around. Keep your OS on the SSD and your data on a spinning disk. That way, you have fast access to your OS files, including cache. And since data is not accessed that frequently and there is no need for fast access, why waste the cash. For the same size disk, spinners are less expensive than SSDs.

Agreed, this is the way to do it. Normally I'd recommend an external USB drive for media storage, but your system likely only has USB 2.0, and while that's fast enough for any sort of media playback, if you want to copy stuff around it will be slow. A 120GB SSD will be more than enough for your OS drive, and 2TB hard drives are cheap.

You might also want to pick up a wireless remote and IR sensor for this system, assuming they're supported by the OS and software. There are many made for PCs and they're not too expensive.