• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Help Needed Reusing an Old Desktop Computer to Stream HD Audio from the Internet.

But they are few. And Single Core processors are dated in the Linux world. And most of them won't run modern GUI environments, getting them to even run XFCE can run into limitations and that's even in 32 bit.
 
Still a decent amount of 32 bit and some 16 bit distro out there. Anything by Debian still run and supports 32 bit system just fine. I've used a few myself on my ancient Thinkpads. Audio, even high res audio, don't require a lot of computing power. It's not like you're going to play 1000 music files all at 1 time. All of my music machines are only required to push music one file a time to a DAC and be quiet.

Most limitation with older CPU and older systems is being about to run modern desktops and web browsing.
 
DChen said:
Still a decent amount of 32 bit and some 16 bit distro out there. Anything by Debian still run and supports 32 bit system just fine. I've used a few myself on my ancient Thinkpads. Audio, even high res audio, don't require a lot of computing power. It's not like you're going to play 1000 music files all at 1 time. All of my music machines are only required to push music one file a time to a DAC and be quiet.

Most limitation with older CPU and older systems is being about to run modern desktops and web browsing.
Click to expand...

And running current enough audio interfaces or sound cards for high res audio.
 
ldatlof said:
There is a 32-bit .iso on Daphile's download page...
Click to expand...

I see. FWIW, I'm like 90% sure the P4 computer in question is 64 bit. Not for nothing, it's almost become a mission in and of itself to offer a working proof of concept, just for those who say this can't be done, that it won't sound decent, that the software and modern streaming sites wont recognise it. Everything I've read over the last several days about the Daphile software tells me the polar opposite. My gut tells me it's possible and the results will be worth the effort of pulling out a 15 y/o computer, doing nothing at the moment either way.

I get it. a faster newer computer, Core 2, 5, 7,9, would work, work better.. I do get it. I hear you all. I read and re-read these posts garnering every nugget of information I can, then researching it over and over. Anything I do I obsess and research over and over till I;m ready. The problem is I don't have a spare Core 2,5,7,9 machine I want to take off-line then convert to a music only device. Nor am I one bit interested in using any incarnation of Windows OS for the project. Windows is a power draining, life succking hog., It's designed, as are its various available platform applications are designed, to suck the life out of your processor. . My old man was in the computer business way back when, his famous saying has always been "software drives hardware", which is why we need to buy computers as powerful as we do in our homes,.. What,.. just to watch movies, to surf the net, look at porn, .. and listen to music,..Yes.. no?

BS, no one needs 1000 times the sum total of computing power used by Nasa to put man on the Moon in their home system. But, if the hardware nerds and software geeks made hardware and wrote software that DIDN"T require all these resources, we wouldn't need to buy and recycle millions of computers per year,..Or worry that our OS is about the be discontinued, or worse, be attacked through some back door someone left accessible to 14 y/o hackers.

Enter Linux and programs like it. Simple, effective, powerful. The average idiot doesn't even know he has a choice of OS's, beyond Windows or whichever level CrApple is up to this month. The ONLY reason I stopped running XP Pro was due to the fact Windows stopped supporting updates, and that's it. Which is which I still run 8.1 on my older computers, by the time Windows stops supporting it (like they won't support Flash after the end of 2020) another newer OS will be available beyond Windows 10. Why do you think they were giving Windows 10 upgrades away, free to everyone who has a Windows based PS?, Just because Bill Gates is nice guy, has enough money, and simply wants to give back to everyone he's fleeced over and over and over for more than 3 decades?,...

Yea, right..believe that and I've got some beach front property for sale down south Louisiana way that you may be interested in..

The 120GB SSD is on the way from Amazon. I'm using an old 250GB HDD before I buy a 1TB HDD, just to be 100% sure that things work the way I'm sure they will. I can have a 1 or 2TB WD Purple HDD here in 24 hours from Amazon, no need to have it here for initial testing purposes. The 250GB HDD I'm using is out of a Scientific Atlanta recordable cable box that was found on the curb along with 3 more boxes identical to it. I've formatted them, so they are ready to install whatever on them anytime I am.

Since the computer I'm using is in the attic storage, I will need to rearrange my lab and workbench to get the door to the stairs open, which I'll do Friday after work. The SSD will be here by then as well. I have the SATA cables, a local mom and pop computer shop is less than a block from here, in case I need anything immediately. While, there, I'll chat with the guy and see whats cheap used in Core 5 and 7 desktops coming in these days. Since the Core 9 is out, older 5 and 7's should start showing up used cheap everywhere. Yea, I could go Ebay, but I simply don't trust people who sell there anymore. Too many horror stories, things not working out the way they were supposed to.

I like to have whatever it is in my hand , to see it and check it personally , before I lay out my cash...
 
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Hmm, I wonder if Daphile would work on a thin client PC (basically a low power Intel-based appliance used to RDP into a Windows virtual machine)? I have a few of those sitting around.

BTW, I happen to like Windows 10; is there a reason you haven't upgraded from 8.1? MS really screwed the pooch when they tried to go all tile-based, luckily there are third-party apps you can download to get back the start menu.
 
I have a dedicated pc connected to my Sansui 9090db. I installed a Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD which has rca ins and outs. But the best part is the Burr-Brown PCM 1974a chip. Though this is an older card, Burr Brown chips are fantastic and have a very smooth sound. Not harsh like most digital chips. Plus having dedicated rca in and outs is a bonus. The SB x-Fi Titanium HD can still be found. And any older pc will work. Just throw in a massive hard drive and have fun recording vinyl or streaming. And on a lighter note most software you may need should run on XP or 7 or 8. Who cares if Microsoft quits supporting an OS !! **** will still run. Or if you feel you need Windows 10, then download the install file from Microsoft and during the install, just use your XP or windows 8 CD key. It will work and activate using that older version of windows key. Microsoft never closed the free upgrade option. But dont tell anyone !!!! Hell I ran a multi-track recording studio on an ancient AMD Athlon back in the day !!! So your pc's will do fine.
 
swechsler said:
Hmm, I wonder if Daphile would work on a thin client PC (basically a low power Intel-based appliance used to RDP into a Windows virtual machine)? I have a few of those sitting around.

BTW, I happen to like Windows 10; is there a reason you haven't upgraded from 8.1? MS really screwed the pooch when they tried to go all tile-based, luckily there are third-party apps you can download to get back the start menu.
Click to expand...

I upgraded to 8.1 from 8.0 which came on the older Toshiba Satellite I use every day. I didn't like Vista, which came on 2 of my other bigger Toshiba laptops. Windows 10 came OEM on the little Dell laptop I got free. I tried Win 10 when it first came out, I think it was the Beta version. It ran like molasses on my daily driver Toshiba, witn an AMD Vision and 8GB RAM. So I rolled back it's OS to 8.1, which ran better than 8.0 ever did. The again I could use a hammer and chisel to write faster than Windows 8 did anything on my computer.

It's not lost on me that many things were accomplished and done really well, using older computers. True the P4 had thermal issues, running hotest of all the Intel Chips made to date, as well as having a painfully far behind beginning, compared to what AMD and some P3's were capable of. By the Prescott series, the things ran much better. FWIW, I don't remember either of these P4 3.8Ghz towers running overly slow or hot, but one did have the noisy fans which were replaced adding a bigger 500W PS and different processor fan.

I can't remember which Sound Blaster card is in the towers.., IIRC the it was most powerful and expensive one available at the time, (192/24- 2.0-5.1 SPDIF-Optical out) same with the Nvidia graphics card, which looks like I won't need. But the graphics cards helped the P4 run faster preventing resources from being tied up. So I may or may not use the one 21" WS monitor or 32" LED TV for display in the main room, with a USB remote. If I don't have a laptop running while listening, I'll need some device to control it, though one of the 2 older Kindle Fire tablets I replaced the batteries in would work as well and take less space-resources.
 
Down the rabbit hole we go. Looking at fanless cases, fanless power supplies, and form factor boards that allow for a fanless processor as well. ITX Intel Atom seems most popular, but there are other options.

One day. Currently, I'm trying to finish ongoing projects, sell off whatever I'm not using and never going to. Stuff that's nice to own, but I don't ever use. Reusing one of the 2 desktop PC's for a streamer-server helps to that end. Perhaps I can repurpose the other tower for movie storage and as a movie server. One project at a time...my head is already spinning from all the options to build a high def music server. SSD will be here by Saturday. Trying to get it built and working over this weekend. Next week is packed full and I won't have time to do anything but decompress after work. A perfect period to test drive the music server, begin file transfers, and streaming off the net in HD.
 
Yessss.., especially on Friday night's and Saturdays!!

Mommy and the girls are gone all day tomorrow till 9 or 10 at night, I've got the place to myself. Gonna get my mad scientist on. Spark a spliff, settle in chill with some tunes and build me a server.

On a related topic, which streaming sites do you think are the best value for the dollar.? A server is only as good as the music on it. Amazon HD is like 12$ per mo. as we have Prime already. There are so many, Tidal, Spotify, etc. Then there is HD Tracks to buy music, but their stuff is expensive. IS anyone offering a better deal on buying HI Rez albums for less, or are they more or less the only game in town? I know their are unsanctioned places to go, where stuff is free, but I like to support the artists.

I'm a pretty much a every music guy, not a huge classical fan, more like typical mainstream stuff, Clair De Lune Fanfare For the Common Man, Vivaldi. etc. Jazz is OK , I dig Miles, Coltrane, Charlie Parker. Female vocalists, like Patricia Barber, Norah Jones, Emmylou Harris but not Lady GaGa. Rock 60's 70's, 80's new wave, B-52's,.. blues big time, some country, even 50's rock Sinatra, pretty much anything good but nothing past say 2000, except Adele and one or two other acts.. I'm not like hardcore into Beethoven or stuff like that. Not that I don't like Wagner, classical soundtracks are great, John WIlliams, if that qualifies as classical. I'm pretty eclectic in my music tastes Abba to Zebra, Warren Zevon to the Animals, Floyd, CSNY, Folk,.. Gordon Lightfoot, John Mayall, Al DiMeola. Clapton, Genesis, you get the idea.
 
Amazon HD is not compatible with LMS. Hi-res is either Tidal or Qobuz. Spotify is less than CD quality but very popular.
 
I like your spirit macman007. I still think this machine will work no problem for what you are doing. Besides the SSD (which you already ordered), I wouldn't buy anything new right now. If you're an experience Linux user and know 100% what you want then absolutely go for it. If not then I encourage you to play around a bit. All you need is CD and/or a 4 or 8 GB USB stick. Preferably the USB stick is a USB 2 not USB 3. Why? Because older BIOS will not boot from USB 3 but will from USB 2. Some older systems yet will not boot from a USB hence the requirement for a CD. Once you have that then try a few different distros in Live mode. It's all free and will not cost you anything but time. A live Linux distro on a USB stick is handy to have around if I want to test a machine to see if it works or I need to debug some hardware or do some date recovery or clone another HDD or...... It allows you to get a taste of the OS but more importantly allows you to see if there's sufficient driver support for what you are trying to do. Linux is down right friendly now compared to where it was in 1995 when I was in University. One you get everything going with the live version then install onto your SSD.

Set up the software and then decide, if anything you want to upgrade. Computer cases, especially a good case, will last to the next computer. So will the SSD and a good power supply. An upgrade for me typically consists of upgrading the MB, CPU and possibly RAM but everything gets used. I like to reuse as much as possible. For nostalgic reasons I still have a laptop that will use a 3.5" floppy. Hoping to find one that is able to use a 5.25" floppy even though I have no clue what I'll do with such a system. My days of text based Pascal, Basic and C programming are pretty much done.

I got a Masters in Comp Sci. and totally agree with you about Windows. For my personal use, Windows 7 is as far as I got and have switched to Linux. Don't care for the telemetry and the "google" like experience that MS is moving towards. Already Internet Explorer have become Chrome in all but name. Profesionally I've used Windows 8 lots and obviously Win 10. Win 10 is getting better especially once you've strip the BS away. But starting with Win 10 build 1803, Microsoft eliminated the very useful Homegroup networking feature. Why? So that they can push their Onedrive crap. There's other ways of course to network PCs and devices together.

Anyhow enjoy your have fun doing your project. I'd be surprise if this doesn't work out for you. The only caveat is that Linux, especially older and/or smaller distros (without the huge forum support) can be frustrating. If you do have issues, you won't find a lot of people having the same issue of installing year Linux 2020 onto an older P4. But you've got the right attitude. which is 90% of the game. If you've never used Linux there is a learning curve as there would be with any new OS. But the knowledge you gain will be invaluable and it's nice to be free of the MS monopoly. It's nice to choose to use Windows rather than being forced to use Windows.
 
Amazon is behind a day, so the drive and caddy adapter will be here Sunday. I have a new USB 2 memory stick with 32gb space. The PC is down and open, 4 sticks of 800mhz 1gb memory installed. Fresh Arctic silver on the processor, case is clean, ready to install the SSD. Since everyone has pretty much agreed, I'll only use the SSD for now, the caddy adapter is designed to mount 2 SSD's in the space of the stock 3.5" HDD. That way I can add a big SSD later if desired. SATA cable-connections at the ready,

I still don't know if I'm going to try the 64 bit or 32 bit ISO. I guess I could try the 64 bit first, however I'm wondering, should I be looking for the latest and greatest BIOS update before I do? I won't know which BIOS version is loaded until I do the POST before the SSD install and load Daphile.

From what I've read, I load the ISO to the memory stick, set the bios to boot from the USB then load and install the Daphile OS on the new SSD then Bob's your uncle. Once the files are installed and setup, boot normally, and there will be a installed partition on the SSD,part for the OS, the rest for file storage.

Or am I missing something here?
 
Even though I know to leave well enough alone I still update to the latest BIOS anyways. 99% of the time not necessary but I can't help myself. If you're the same just do it or it will constantly nag at you.

Once everything is assembled. Time to test it out, make sure everything is working and is stable. Time to load up a Live Linux distro. Try both 32 and 64 bit. Not only will you get a chance to see if the hardware works but also get to putter around with the OS a bit before loading it for real.

You got the high level logistics of how to go about it. However I wouldn't do it without first testing a few things. Here's what I would do:
  1. For a system this old and especially after taking everything apart, cleaning, reapplying thermal paste and putting back together. Got no idea if everything still works and if the work was done correctly. First step is to reassemble PC.
  2. Turn it on and see if it posts.
  3. If post without error. Then see if it will load and run a live Linux distro or boots to a Windows install screen. If it gets to this stage then that's really promising.
  4. I would then run memtest86 for 12 to 24 hours to test the memory and some CPU.
  5. If it is stable after memory testing and have not died due to heating issues. Then I would "typically" load Win 7 but don't activate it. I'd run Prime95, CPUZ and HWMonitor to stress test the CPU for 24 hours. I'm checking for stability and for a P4, especially heat stability. After 24 hours of Prime95 and after having done memory testing I would consider the system stable ready for OS install.
  6. I would then install a Live Linux in both 32 and 64 bit version to confirm my hardware is really 64 bit. If not bummer as you'll be limited to 3 GB max. My favourite Linux for this is Parted Magic or Knoppix. Seeing that Daphile is Gentoo based you could also try Redcore Linux too which is also Gentoo based but a larger distro but more comprehensive. IF Redcore works then I'm 99% confident that Daphile will work without issue.
  7. At this stage, knowing the hardware is solid. Go ahead and update the BIOS if you wish before installing Daphile.
  8. Finally install Daphile.
https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=daphile
https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=daphile

Sooooo...if we get this far without any hiccups what do we know? We'll know hardware wise everything works and is rock solid. We are also 99% certain that Daphile will work no problem or Daphile will not work but another Linux or OS will work. Along the way if there is a problem we will sort of have an indication where the problem is and is able to methodically diagnose and find a solution. However if all we do is turn it on, try to install Daphile onto our new SSD and something goes wrong we will have not clue where to begin to diagnose. Is it the memory? CPU? PSU? Overheating? Software 32 or 64 bit? Hardware or software? What the heck do I google? Most people just give up and blame it on "old" hardware, go buy a $3000 PC with Dell's dummies support.

This is the method I use for all PC and laptops that comes to me regardless if I'm loading Linux, Windows or MAC OS onto a Thinkpad. First test the hardware. If that's stable and good then decide on the software.
 
I disagree about the BIOS. BIOS updates are there to fix specific bugs; it's not like updating an OS where you need to do it. If the system works fine as-is, leave it alone.
 
I'll check the BIOS first. Then I will try to load the 64 bit version of Daphile ISO. Should run OK, I'm pretty sure the latter P4 Prescott 3.8Ghz processor came in the 8400 with the option of XP Pro 64 bit or 32 bit. The MB/Processor supports 4Gb RAM 800Mhz 240 pin DDR2, which is whats in there maxed out. There are 6 SATA terminals for various peripherals, I'll run down the numbers on the SB audio card. Video though not needed is the Nvidia Geforce GTO 6800, if I read it correctly. The other identical PC has a slightly different graphics card, don't know if it is better or worse, but it has an issue with concentric vertical lines of static about every 1/2 from left to right on the display screen. Swapping in the other card the static lines go away. Corrupted chipsets, or caps methinks.? Either way a modern replacement is cheap and a click away of I want to go that way with the other PC.

Still waiting for USPS Amazon shipment due today with the 120GB SSD, 4$ 2 SSD tray caddy, including hardware cables and a driver. The rest is done and waiting. I used Arctic Silver thermal paste that I had here, stuff that is non-conductive, which I use for mounted transistors heat sinks on amps and other related gear. I didn't ask if the non-conductive stuff is OK for processors, is it? I know you can't use the conductive thermal paste on transistors, as it creates a path to ground shorting the transistors, But you can use the non-conductive stuff on the lid of a computer processor between it and the heat sink right? Can't see why it makes any difference the heat sink radiator assy doesn't touch anything but the plastic shroud housing Dell put in the P4 Dimension 8400's to keep them cool.

I better look up if its OK or not. Has to be better than the stock stuff, which was completely dry, not much there, and not in full contact of the whole surface of the lid. Plus I've read the OEM stuff is garbage, esp. compared to what is available today. Arctic Silver heat paste being the best, or so I've told. Used it on dozens of mounted transistors and it works better than the old Dow Corning stuff I had that was 30 years old 5 years back.
 
Everything is here, ,finally. Still investigating the thermal paste I used as outlined in the above post #59. I got some stuff I'm into to tie up and I work 5-10 PM tomorrow, so I have the rest of today, tonight and all day tomorrow to play with it.

Got customer Tandberg, Scully, Crown, and Studer open reels apart for service-resto, plus an Akai to finish ATM. Work comes before play, keeps the Missus happy and the coffers from running dry. Priorities, ya know? Then this week is full force work, our heavy week with 7 big homes to clean plus a Dog Grooming business tomorrow night. Hey, its whatever it takes to get by right?

I was looking for the fiscally responsible route in doing my first server here, repurposing an otherwise working idle PC taking space. This makes sense to me for my first music-only PC build. I've built real desktop computers before, using off-the-shelf hardware, case and OS. All were Windows based, nothing using Linux or Apple. This is why I ask all my OS questions here.

Before 2009, I was afraid to even look inside any computer, to clean it, install more memory, or up the storage. Now, I'll do pretty much anything for Desktop or Laptop, going as far as to replace swollen-bad MB capacitors. But that is a deep as I'll go on board-level repairs. It's much easier to get a new replacement MB and new processor, and reuse the case with everything else for most builds. If money is a factor, or it's a HP, Compac, Dell, E-Machines,or Acer with the damn proprietary cases and M boards, nothing else really fits so all bets are off.

I'll take photos as I go and post them later once things are going, unless I run into issue, which I'm sure I will .. Wish me luck,.. here we go !!! :banana::jump:
 
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