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Inner Groove Distortion- Turntable problem?

Slightly off topic, but has anybody here invested in the recent reissue of Thomas Dolby's first album? Think it was only released in the US. Came across it today on Discogs and never knew it existed. Love the splatter effect on the vinyl.
If so, any thoughts?
 
Are you talking about the ECHO 2019 remaster? I have not heard it. I've only listened to the EMI "Venice in Peril" LP pressing. I have heard the US-Capitol (CDP 7 46009 2) 1984 CD and the Japan-EMI (CP28-1031) 1988 CD reissue. I liked the Japan-EMI reissue. Found the US-Capitol was a bit "hot." WRT the treble and upper-mid EQ boost.
 
Op, I would recommend you try aligning your cartridge using another method than that plastic gauge. Many decades ago I had a technics tt and used the plastic gauge. A dealer set up my tt using another method and it sounded much better. Not sure what the dealer used but I recall seeing some kind of Feickert looking tool at his workbench. I currently use the Mobile Fidelity GEO disc and have no IGD of any sort.

I think you just need to bite the bullet and take the effort to realign your cartridge not using the plastic gauge. I realize you indicated you brought the cartridge and headshell to a dealer and he confirmed alignment was correct but I bet he just used the same plastic gauge.
 
pyoung272 said:
Op, I would recommend you try aligning your cartridge using another method than that plastic gauge. Many decades ago I had a technics tt and used the plastic gauge. A dealer set up my tt using another method and it sounded much better. Not sure what the dealer used but I recall seeing some kind of Feickert looking tool at his workbench. I currently use the Mobile Fidelity GEO disc and have no IGD of any sort.

I think you just need to bite the bullet and take the effort to realign your cartridge not using the plastic gauge. I realize you indicated you brought the cartridge and headshell to a dealer and he confirmed alignment was correct but I bet he just used the same plastic gauge.
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I remember using the VE stevenson protractor and had the same IGD.
 
Mr Boochie said:
Are you talking about the ECHO 2019 remaster? I have not heard it. I've only listened to the EMI "Venice in Peril" LP pressing. I have heard the US-Capitol (CDP 7 46009 2) 1984 CD and the Japan-EMI (CP28-1031) 1988 CD reissue. I liked the Japan-EMI reissue. Found the US-Capitol was a bit "hot." WRT the treble and upper-mid EQ boost.
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The 2019 reissue. I haven't heard the Japan or US pressings.
 
80sonvinyl said:
I mentioned in multiple posts that I had the same problem with an Ortofon 2m red. It must be groove wear.
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80sonvinyl said:
My 95E is a €30 cartridge (thought that was expensive at the time lol) so I'm not sure if there's even any point. The whole thing will probably sound atrocious and mask any distortion anyway.
I seem to remember that I was getting similar problems with my Ortofon 2M red that came with the TT. (That's now sold).
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This is your multiple posts? And you "seem" to remember?

Why not get off the budget cartridge wagon and try something a bit better, you might find you get what you pay for. Taking inflation into account the AT would be equivalent to a $12 cartridge back in the 70's, I wouldn't have expected much from it back then either.

I have over 2000 records without near the issues you're having, but I'm not expecting a sows ear to be a silk purse either.

With all the issues you seem to be having if not the cartridge your table is the culprit, if so I would suspect bad tonearm bearings. New tables can have issues, and I wouldn't trust the dealer to admit it.
 
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Grenadeslio said:
This is your multiple posts? And you "seem" to remember?

Why not get off the budget cartridge wagon and try something a bit better, you might find you get what you pay for.

I have over 2000 records without near the issues you're having, but I'm not expecting a sows ear to be a silk purse either.

With all the issues you seem to be having if not the cartridge your table is the culprit, if so I would suspect bad tonearm bearings. New tables can have issues, and I wouldn't trust the dealer to admit it.
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You'll make a lot of enemies here by calling the Technics sl1500c OR the AT-VM95ML a 'sows ear' !!

What would you class as a 'bit better'? A 1K cartridge??
I am not as well off as you it seems, I can't be buying another more expensive cartridge for the purpose of troubleshooting alone. Some people really do live on another planet.

If you read the thread title, you'll see that I'm completely open to the problem being the TT, but in fairness the chances of it being the records (there are so many variables at play such as poor pressings, groove wear etc) is much higher than it being the turntable. Do you ever listen through headphones? Also if you wouldnt mind, just to see what you think, listening to that Private Idaho video posted a few pages back. See if you can hear any IGD. It seems some people just don't hear things that others do.
 
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80sonvinyl said:
You'll make a lot of enemies here by calling the Technics sl1500c OR the AT-VM95E a 'sows ear' !!

What would you class as a 'bit better'? A 1K cartridge??
I am not as well off as you it seems, I can't be buying another more expensive cartridge for the purpose of troubleshooting alone. Some people really do live on another planet.

If you read the thread title, you'll see that I'm completely open to the problem being the TT, but in fairness the chances of it being the records (there are so many variables at play such as poor pressings, groove wear etc) is much higher than it being the turntable. Do you ever listen through headphones? Also if you wouldnt mind, just to see what you think, listening to that Private Idaho video posted a few pages back. See if you can hear any IGD. It seems some people just don't hear things that others do.
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Not all stylus are created equal, and you don't need to spend $1000 to better the AT. On that note, I've purchased two of the budget AT cartridges, one for my brother in Tennesee and one for my son's table, again, I don't expect the same performance from it that I do from my Denon, Grace, etc, it is what it is.



Quoted from another member here in another thread:

"I use cartridges with the fine line or Micro ridge concept. Compared to their elliptical brothers they are a real revelation. Grace F9's were fantastic with their sophisticated shapes, too. So enjoy the large improvement to your HiFi system. For me there is less groove noise and pops and clicks intensity was remarkably reduced. And the cartridges just don't mis-track anymore."

And I'm not here to win any popularity contests.

As far as my being well off, now that's funny lol.
 
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Grenadeslio said:
Quoted from another member in another thread here, not all stylus are created equal, and you don't need to spend $1000 to better the AT, it is what it is.

"I use cartridges with the fine line or Micro ridge concept. Compared to their elliptical brothers they are a real revelation. Grace F9's were fantastic with their sophisticated shapes, too. So enjoy the large improvement to your HiFi system. For me there is less groove noise and pops and clicks intensity was remarkably reduced. And the cartridges just don't mis-track anymore."

And I'm not here to win any popularity contests.

As far as my being well off, now that's funny lol.
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Excuse me, I meant to say the VM95ML. That's what I'm using, not the 95E.
 
80sonvinyl said:
Excuse me, I meant to say the VM95ML. That's what I'm using, not the 95E.
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I realise it has the a different stylus, it's still a budget cartridge just with a different stylus profile, again, you get what you pay for. And it's also just possible it doesn't play well with your tables arm.

I have a nice Grace G707 arm on my Kenwood KD500 and on paper the Picketing XV15 1200E should be the ****, but sadly I could never tame the sibilance, the same with the 625E. But it's my favorite cartridge on the Thorens TD166MKII, and I've often recommended it as such.

The sibilance wasn't with every record, so as you I thought it was just the few records that were the issue, mounting a Grace cartridge removed all doubt, it was a mismatch between the arm and cartridge.

I should also add, the ML stylus profile is much more sensitive to SRA, if not dead on mistracking will occur.
 
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Grenadeslio said:
I realise it has the a different stylus, it's still a budget cartridge just with a different stylus profile, again, you get what you pay for. And it's also just possible it doesn't play well with your tables arm.

I have a nice Grace G707 arm on my Kenwood KD500 and on paper the Picketing XV15 1200E should be the ****, but sadly I could never tame the sibilance, the same with the 625E. But it's my favorite cartridge on the Thorens TD166MKII, and I've often recommended it as such.

The sibilance wasn't with every record, so as you I thought it was just the few records that were the issue, mounting a Grace cartridge removed all doubt, it was a mismatch between the arm and cartridge.

I should also add, the ML stylus profile is much more sensitive to SRA, if not dead on mistracking will occur.
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I researched the 95ML thoroughly before buying it. Actually I had my sights fixed on the VM540ML first, until people told me it may be too heavy for my tonearm. There are plenty of Technics users with the 95ML...my table uses the same tonearm as the 1200 series.

I disagree about the cartridge. The VM95E cartridge body is made in China, the 95ML body is made in Japan. Yes they look the same but the 95ML body must have an edge, even if that's better workmanship with the latter.
I currently have my SRA 'tai down' a bit, it seems to work slightly better than purely parallel to the platter. I play around with this from time to time, but it does nothing obviously to tame groove wear. It's not sibilance I get, it's high freq distortion.
 
80sonvinyl said:
I researched the 95ML thoroughly before buying it. Actually I had my sights fixed on the VM540ML first, until people told me it may be too heavy for my tonearm. There are plenty of Technics users with the 95ML...my table uses the same tonearm as the 1200 series.

I disagree about the cartridge. The VM95E cartridge body is made in China, the 95ML body is made in Japan. Yes they look the same but the 95ML body must have an edge, even if that's better workmanship with the latter.
I currently have my SRA 'tai down' a bit, it seems to work slightly better than purely parallel to the platter. I play around with this from time to time, but it does nothing obviously to tame groove wear. It's not sibilance I get, it's high freq distortion.
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mistracking is mistracking
 
OK, so there's only four possibilities here:
1) Alignment, and since you apparently can't / won't to try a different method, (perhaps you tried a VE template previously, but as per previous posts, using Conrad Hoffman's arc protractor is not difficult), it looks we'll have to discount that as an option.
2) Tonearm / Turntable setup - VTF/ VTA / anti-skate / azimuth / perfect levelling - and you are certain these are correct, so we can discount these.
3) Tonearm / Turntable problem, which again, given it's a new Technics, I can understand why you'd rather avoid pursuing this possibility.
4) Bad records.
So since options 1,2 and 3 are 'off limits', you're left with 4, which you can't do anything about.
(you'll notice I didn't mention cartridges, because I do agree, on a properly functioning TT, and properly aligned, you should not get IGD with an AT95ML)
 
mjwraw said:
OK, so there's only four possibilities here:
1) Alignment, and since you apparently can't / won't to try a different method, (perhaps you tried a VE template previously, but as per previous posts, using Conrad Hoffman's arc protractor is not difficult), it looks we'll have to discount that as an option.
2) Tonearm / Turntable setup - VTF/ VTA / anti-skate / azimuth / perfect levelling - and you are certain these are correct, so we can discount these.
3) Tonearm / Turntable problem, which again, given it's a new Technics, I can understand why you'd rather avoid pursuing this possibility.
4) Bad records.
So since options 1,2 and 3 are 'off limits', you're left with 4, which you can't do anything about.
(you'll notice I didn't mention cartridges, because I do agree, on a properly functioning TT, and properly aligned, you should not get IGD with an AT95ML)
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Yeah. I know it's possible that a new turntable could have issues, but I hate going to the awful trouble of packing it up and sending it for assessment when the evidence that it is indeed the TT is very scant.
 
Kind of sounds like the previous owner mis-aligned his own cart and plowed through the grooves before he sold it. I've encountered LOTS of older 45's from juke boxes that were that way.
 
80sonvinyl said:
About one in 5 or 6 used records I buy will have it, and I'm picky about condition.
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In my experience, this usually means the records have wear in the inner grooves from previous owners. You never know what an old record has been played on, and it may have been subject to worn styli or poor setups over the years.

The other part of the equation is that some records are simply harder to track on the inner grooves, especially with "hot" (aka, loud) mastering.

Better stylus profiles like microline can mitigate either situation, as they can reach areas of the grooves that elliptical and conical cannot. But stylus profile alone does not determine cartridge performance - the cantilever, suspension, and body/generator all play a role as well.

FWIW, I don't have any cartridges with advanced stylus types (they're all ellipticals), but I've yet to come across a new record with IGD - only on some of the used ones I've come across.
 
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