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Is Crosley a problem for Vinyl revival?

I was one of those people I suppose. I grew up with crappy mp3 downloads, starting with Napster when I was in middle school (10-20 mins a song on 56k, we were some dedicated 13 year olds). Of course, we all had CDs and shelf system stereos that we all thought were awesome as well. Never really progressed much with my music formats since those days, never really had a motivation to.

Then about a year ago on a whim I bought a junky Yorx all in one stereo with a built in TT from the 80's. I started to become more and more fascinated with records, so I ditched the Yorx and picked up a proper (but inexpensive) TT, receiver and speakers.

Now, I've gone down the rabbit hole completely. That set up is gone, and currently I have two different stereos in two different rooms, each with their own TT's (Pro Ject Debut Carbon DC and a Sony PS-FL1). Honestly, I really like the sound of vinyl, but I also like the aspect of "working" for your music. Going out to record shops, scouring through the shelves, then bringing it back and letting the record play all the way through. Just has a different feeling than mindlessly skipping around tracks.
 
For me it was a spring board... I went from the to a Garrard gt35 in a few months now have a sl-1900 with a shure v15 mr. And love it modest speakers and running through a 90's technics rec.

But I love hunting out music and looking to digitize lp for my portable player.
 
needlestein said:
The world changes. It doesn't really get better or worse when it comes to taste in music. It just changes.
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Sure the world changes, but any change "must" be better or worse all depending on the perspective of the viewer. It would be almost impossible for a change to have equal value in the eyes who judge it.
 
Ken Boyd said:
but any change "must" be better or worse all depending on the perspective of the viewer. It would be almost impossible for a change to have equal value in the eyes who judge it.
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QFT
Perfect for this thread and all that feel the need to call someone elses gear CRAP. From my perspective view I could look down at the vast majority posting in this thread and call your gear crap that would never enter my doorway. However why would I do that? what benefit does that bring to anyone?
 
Looking back some 40 plus years ago as subjectively as possible I believe much of the music then was as poor as it is today or, for that matter, as good. I know that today there is compression and Auto-Tune which means prettiness can finally triumph over talent (and does so constantly) there are still many amazing young artists today whose music is as good as anything past. Katie Melua, Melody Gardot, and the group Daughter, to name a few, are young, well known, and fabulous talents. Whether they are to your taste is another matter and subjective.

Unfortunately manufactured talent is what many young people listen to today. But was it not so "back in the day?" I won't name such from that era or now because they are as readily identifiable from back then as they are today. Besides you just might be a Pat Boone, Menudo, or Bay City Rollers fan. If so great and If not, well, that might even be better. Good music is always remembered and bad nearly always forgotten. We can always name good talent from what ever time we were young. We sometimes use such to prove it was better back then but we are often hard pressed to remember that marginal artist who sold records, had girls screaming or or boys putting up posters. Why? They did not survive the truest, most trustworthy, and harshest critic...the passage of time.

Same is true for Crosley, Ion, or insert-your-favourite-here brand. I had a portable tube record player that could not possibly have been kinder to my records than a Crosley. Yes it was better made but a trenching tool is still a trenching tool. I say this because I know the crystal or ceramic stylus on it had never been replaced and must have been destructive. I don't know as I do not have my old records. They were obliterated by parties, Frisbee tossing, and primitive attempts to inadvertently invent or discover scratching. Yeah, I know..."young kids ain't got no danged respect fer nuthin' these...er...them days." Point is I grew in understanding of music, knowledge of what good means, and in the quality of my stereo kit. Maybe today's youth will too.

As for me I think I shall listen to my Marantz and practice my curmudgeonly "get off my lawn" voice for the fast approaching warm weather.

Gerard
 
needlestein said:
With music, not science and technology for example (running water is always better than having to carry a bucket to a well and a chamber pot to the street) what is current and popular is not necessarily the best in terms of artistry, virtuosity, or expression. But it may be considered the best for a lot of reasons that make sense to thirteen year old girls who have always determine what's on Billboard charts and in what order since the late 1940s.

What happens later is that generations of thirteen year old girls disagree with each other. Yes, of course those who currently drive the popularity contest think what they promote is better than what they are currently replacing and they don't think beyond that. Further, they don't even think in terms of better, only new.

The lament of the cynical has been artist is that during their rein of popularity, they thought it was their music and talent being judged as "better" or even "best" by the current music consuming public compared to their contemporaries. But then they come to realize that they were only new. Smart artists like the Beatles, Madonna, Elton John, Bowie, Beyoncé and even the Rolling Stones know that successful reinvention is how to stay current and popular. It's about new, not better. But it can't be so new that it's too different. It's a tight rope.

If the music is indeed better, then why doesn't it stay at the top? If we could all agree that classic rock is better than reggaeton, then classic rock would always be better, right?

It is my personal opinion that R.E.M. on the albums Murmur and Reckoning and some few assorted later tracks on later albums as a collected whole is truly the only music that matters in instrumentality and message. I think it is better than everything else I or anyone else has ever heard. But R.E.M. failed to successfully reinvent themselves and simply became noise. R.E.M. once Rolling Stone's "Coolest Rock Band of All Time," is on the verge of being completely forgotten.

The thing that amazed me was how quickly the forgetting began. Girls loved REM in the 1990s because of their song "Stand," a dumb bubble gum girly song that REM wrote and released and made millions of off probably just to prove the "new," point. Their old songs were full of substance and poetry and meaning and deep musical artistry and they were catchy and interesting and cool, too. But it wasn't enough to get to the top of the pop charts even if they'd been at the top of the college charts forever. And even if they were "new," with their debut album, they were too different at a time when Journey and The Eagles rules the charts. REM is, was, and always will be better that Journey and the Eagles. Girls who first heard "Stand" thought REM was new, having no idea they'd been around for many years before that release.

Just my opinion of course, but it's not even my opinion. It's the observed practice of those artists who manage to stay current over long periods of time.

In the end, in music what is "better" is a complex mixture of opinion anyway, too, right? We all have our own opinions and then there is radio and the charts and now television and videos and now also the Internet and YouTube.

Maybe when there was one place to go and competition was tough it was easy to think of music in terms of one act coming to the front at a time only to be replaced by whats better or new or both. But now it's all out there at the same time. I think it's as heard to figure out what's better as what's even current.

If the music that comes forward is always better than what's left behind, is Taylor Swift better than Sam Cooke?
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Excellent post, needlestein.

Gerard
 
Even the music industry has its awards ceremonies. They themselves don't claim all is equal but just different.
 
In my honest estimation the Crosley, ION etc are a killer for recruiting new people to records/turntables. One listen and they will be saying this sounds like @%*& compared to their cheap digital devices/players wondering what all the hype was about. Maybe there is an opportunity of convincing them otherwise if by some chance they arrive here at AK and aren't brain washed by the happy talkers who never met a bad turntable. Yesterday I attended the AK fest in Clinton MA and had the opportunity to see many terrific AK friends who have been in this hobby for years and really have an appreciation for good sounding audio equipment. I also noticed a few new faces I hadn't seen before, one young man purchased a turntable, not sure what he payed but my guess is $100 or less, I was very familiar with the table since I used to own one, a Sony PS-X500 with a cartridge installed, the table was in great shape with the exception of the dust cover hinges missing, no big deal. Compared to a Crosley or ION that Sony is in another universe. There was a totally reconditioned Pioneer receiver for $100, also noticed many nice pairs of reconditioned vintage bookshelf speakers of well respected brands for $40-$60. For a total of $250 or less a newbee could of left the AK fest with a very nice turntable based system that would totally outclass anything he could purchase from Amazon, Best Buy etc.
 
needlestein said:
My dad hated Led Zeppelin, too. They didn't have half the talent of Lenny Dee or Ray Conniff. The kids in the 1960s and 1970s just didn't know good music. And the cars were crappy, nothing like a '57 Chevy. Oh and the houses were better, too: real lathe and plaster walls, not this cheap sheet rock. And women had meat on their bones, not these skinny... and no one did drugs, either!

And what's with all these boys with long hair? They look like girls, and they might as well be dodging the draft like that.

Blah blah blah...

My dad still bitches that you can't recap the tire on a passenger car like you could back in the days when you had a real bias ply tire made in America in Akron, Ohio by Goodyear.

*Smh*

Finally broke down and bought a Japanese car last year. He still can't believe the US isn't enemies out of retribution.

The world changes. It doesn't really get better or worse when it comes to taste in music. It just changes.
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Funny now, but so true beck then. I was raised in the 60s and 70s.

I tried like hell not to be that father. Now my kids are 27, 25, and 23. They listen to all kinds of music from Beatles to Gaga and all points in between.

As for Crosley, they filled a role. Poor sound and junk,? Yes. But many people used them as a stepping stone. Nothing wrong with it.

Many times while in record stores, college aged kids will tell me they have Crosley' s. They want better but they need money for the receiver/amp and speakers too. Yes they could do better with CDs, but they like vinyl.

I have cleaned up and refurbed a bunch of 70's components for my kids, their friends, and occasionally for kids met at record stores.

Those of you that think you young people are dumb or don't care about sound are wrong. Some do, the world is different. Back in the 70's there were plenty of people who did not care about sound quality or music. We did, but not everyone did.
 
majick47 said:
Maybe there is an opportunity of convincing them otherwise if by some chance they arrive here at AK and aren't brain washed by the happy talkers who never met a bad turntable.
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I think the bashers will likely steer them in the direction you deem appropriate..
Damn those happy people and their positive attitudes.
 
majick47 said:
In my honest estimation the Crosley, ION etc are a killer for recruiting new people to records/turntables. One listen and they will be saying this sounds like @%*& compared to their cheap digital devices/players wondering what all the hype was about. Maybe there is an opportunity of convincing them otherwise if by some chance they arrive here at AK and aren't brain washed by the happy talkers who never met a bad turntable. Yesterday I attended the AK fest in Clinton MA and had the opportunity to see many terrific AK friends who have been in this hobby for years and really have an appreciation for good sounding audio equipment. I also noticed a few new faces I hadn't seen before, one young man purchased a turntable, not sure what he payed but my guess is $100 or less, I was very familiar with the table since I used to own one, a Sony PS-X500 with a cartridge installed, the table was in great shape with the exception of the dust cover hinges missing, no big deal. Compared to a Crosley or ION that Sony is in another universe. There was a totally reconditioned Pioneer receiver for $100, also noticed many nice pairs of reconditioned vintage bookshelf speakers of well respected brands for $40-$60. For a total of $250 or less a newbee could of left the AK fest with a very nice turntable based system that would totally outclass anything he could purchase from Amazon, Best Buy etc.
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There is lots of bad gear, but that gear is owned by someone so why the obsession to put it down? Lets have a list of what your working with, I doubt you'll post it though as every time I see you post, your putting down gear all the while staying anonymous as to where you fit in.

It's all perspective as to what's good, you might think your system is good I might not. Like what you just posted, what if someone doesn't have the space, what if the old receiver goes out in a week or any of the other components. If it breaks and dies it's definitely not better.
 
Westy56 said:
I think the bashers will likely steer them in the direction you deem appropriate..
Damn those happy people and their positive attitudes.
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I think the bashers will steer them away from ever joining a site like this. All those guy's with their high end 40 year old $300 systems:rolleyes:
 
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4-2-7 your full of #*@&. You just craped on your fellow AK members that will stand 100% behind their 30-40 year old gear and either repair or refund the buyers money if they are not totally satisfied. I'll take their handshake warranty any day of the week over any big box store or on line seller. Those AK sellers at the AK fest were not in it for the money, it was a labor of love of the vintage equipment that they restored and sold. We aren't talking mega size speakers, components weighing tons or monster turntables, unless some one is living in a closet all that vintage equipment will fit in any average size home, condo or apartment.
 
Westy56 said:
Well, at least you're all about audio instead of attitude.
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majick47 said:
I wouldn't invest ten cents or a minute in attempting to "upgrade" or modify a AT LP-120. OP from what you have said your stuck with the "gift" AT LP-120, a cartridge upgrade will be a minimal improvement to a table that has major limitations. No matter what you do it will never sound like your brothers costly up scale table/audio system or sound like a CD. Face it the LP-120 is a low budget entry level table and it was made by the Hanpin Turntable Factory in China/Taiwan and not in Japan or it would of cost ten times the amount. If your hankering for CD sound quality get a CD player and display the AT LP-120 with a couple records as a conversation piece.
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majick47 said:
Just invest another $1,075 into the AT LP-1240 and it might get closer to a Technics.
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majick47 said:
This isn't a cartridge problem, it's a turntable problem, my Grado cartridges perform excellent with well designed and built turntables. Grado is the last of the USA cartridge mfgs and Grado continues to mfg high quality cartridges that were never intended for the low quality turntables such as the OPs.
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For instance:idea:

In three separate thread lately...
 
I haven't met a single person who's bought a Crosely in pursuit of sound quality. They buy it because it's cool, they buy it for nostalgia, the buy it because they enjoy the ritual of spinning a record once in a while. I've a friend who bought one to play records she heard as a kid with her kids.

Some move up, some move out, and some stay content. Why is it such a big deal?
 
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