JICO revives the Shure classic M44

[johnjhazel]

View attachment 2050448
I just checked both of these.

Bonded. The HE is a 2x7 bonded elliptical. The 75 is a bonded 3x7.

The ellipticals are the typical flatted conicals; 2 flat facets ground on front and back of the conical.

They have shiny metal “Stubbs” that synthetic black tips are glued to. Pressed into the cantilever foot.

When I look at the ellipticals, I look at the width of the flats ground on the front and back of the conical black (color) diamond tips. A 4x7 has barely perceptible flats. A 3x7 is easily seen. A 2x7 is relatively very broad flats. The Kyowa N95HE has the very broad flats. Not a true HE, but at least better than a typical 3x7.

The construction of the 95 is interesting. I’ve never seen it before. The end of the cantilever is pressed into a “V” shape inside the housing. There is a magnet cylinder glued to that cantilever “V” shape; the tie wire is attached to that “V” and is soldered to the brass housing’s end.

So the tie wire is counterfeit. There is no bearing plate as is used on a real Shure stylus. A Shure stylus has a brass plate that forms the fulcrum of the cantilever movement. The suspension is strictly for damping and spring, aft of the center of rotation (fulcrum) of the cantilever. So even the Kyowa uses the suspension block as a fulcrum, spring, and damper; just like the Pfanstiehls and EVGs. That means it has center of rotation of the cantilever in the middle of the suspension block; damped fore and aft of the rotation. Just like Pfanstiehls and EVGs.

Great info Wolfie62. You have the most informative and interesting posts. I had looked at the tie wires on a few Kyowa back whenever the 'Kyowa for Shure' thread was created. I saw where the tie wire was soldered to the cantilever housing but I could not see well enough to see where it went exactly. I have never been of the opinion that a needle with a tie wire is better than one without. If the tie wire is part of a bonafide suspension design such as those created by Shure, Pickering, Stanton, and any correct aftermarket duplicates, then there are benefits such as reducing fore and aft movement, defining a precise pivot point, and exerting a downward force on the cantilever. To add a tie wire as window dressing serves no useful purpose and can introduce resonance. I think it was Peter E Pritchard of GE, ADC, and Sonus fame who was not a fan of tie wires due to the resonance potential. Notice I said 'potential'. I am sure that the Pickering, Shure, and Stanton tie wire designs were excellent.

 

[johnjhazel]

Have you gotten or heard any feedback on the last batch of PM3146DE needles?

No returns !! Yea !

 

[56RETROGRADE]

EVG PM3146DE were a surprise when they arrived. Not sure when they will be available again. I have never before seen a model sell out so quickly. The early Black Diamond(brand) VN35E's were a disaster. There was so little clearance between the tip and the grip that the cartridge body dragged on the records. The recent and only batch of the PM3146DE exhibited good clearance from the record surface. Recent Black Diamond brand should be the same as the EVG's. I.E. Improved.

I bought an M55e nude elliptical from LP Gear just recently and it is the Black Diamond short shaft soft suspension garbage product. No clearance so cart drags on record. Very disappointed for sure. Got it on sale, co hope LP Gear will refund my money. Don’t think I’ll be doing business with them again if they sell something so obviously not made correctly. No QC i will assume.

 

[MRL_Audio]

DJ market. (The 'scratch' type DJ's).

Lot's of DJ's out there clambering for the 44... ready made market and sure sales opportunity.

Read that somewhere...

 

[johnjhazel]

I bought an M55e nude elliptical from LP Gear just recently and it is the Black Diamond short shaft soft suspension garbage product. No clearance so cart drags on record. Very disappointed for sure. Got it on sale, co hope LP Gear will refund my money. Don’t think I’ll be doing business with them again if they sell something so obviously not made correctly. No QC i will assume.

Black Diamond is a brand name. Why LPGear would be buying those from Switzerland is beyond me. They should stick to Japanese styli. You did answer the question as to where that nude elliptical is coming from. Black Diamond is a brand name sold by MrStylus. EVG is the American brand of nude ellipticals. Thakker sells them as NudeLine. I thought the ones being sold by LPGear would have been Japanese due to the high price. Interesting that LPGear states they are made in Japan. There is the above mentioned problem with many of the Swiss nude elliptical N55E. So much so that a number of sellers have dropped the model. Along with other models.
Edit - After thinking about it, LPGear probably bought them from Russell Industries if they are indeed Swiss.

 

[ripblade]

I am curious why did Jico choose M44 of all the similar Shures. I think the M75 was the most popular, so many oem clones too.
Why did they not choose to go with a later model like M97 ?

The M97 is not selling for anywhere near what the M44 is selling for.

 

[T68]

A bit off topic maybe but since they are mentioned:
The MrStylus Black Diamond stylus I have on my Shure M75 bottomed out, cartridge housing scraped the record when I had vtf set at 1.75. MrStylus recommend 1.25-1.75 so I was within spec if so on the heavier end of it.

Thought it was crappy suspension. Until I lowered vtf! Running at 1g now and it's really, really good sounding.

So maybe the Swiss don't have their recommended vtf ranges for the nude ellipticals in order.
And if you got one that bottoms out it may be worth a try to back off on the vtf.

 

[johnjhazel]

A bit off topic maybe but since they are mentioned:
The MrStylus Black Diamond stylus I have on my Shure M75 bottomed out, cartridge housing scraped the record when I had vtf set at 1.75. MrStylus recommend 1.25-1.75 so I was within spec if so on the heavier end of it.

Thought it was crappy suspension. Until I lowered vtf! Running at 1g now and it's really, really good sounding.

So maybe the Swiss don't have their recommended vtf ranges for the nude ellipticals in order.
And if you got one that bottoms out it may be worth a try to back off on the vtf.

That is some great info. Not at all off topic. I think the retailers and distributors are at the mercy of Switzerland. First the dealers and distributors stuck to the original VTF's and then discovered they had to recommend higher VTF's. And now it is possible that they may have to revert to the original VTF's. Of course with no 'head's up' from Switzerland. I will remember your advice the next time I hear of the bottoming out problem. It may still be a crappy suspension but you have it cured for the time being. Keep us posted on the behavior of that stylus.

 

[T68]

Update: I got response from Christian Hofner at MrStylus and he confirms that the N 75 ED II swiss nude elliptical (branded Black Diamond by mrStylus) now has a lighter recommended vtf than the one first stated on their webshop (which I used), and their info on the page is updated.
They also have an optimal recommendation after running tests of their own:

Tracking force: approx. 0.75 – 1.45 g
Optimal: 1.10 g (measured)

 

[johnjhazel]

Update: I got response from Christian Hofner at MrStylus and he confirms that the N 75 ED II swiss nude elliptical (branded Black Diamond by mrStylus) now has a lighter recommended vtf than the one first stated on their webshop (which I used), and their info on the page is updated.
They also have an optimal recommendation after running tests of their own:

Tracking force: approx. 0.75 – 1.45 g
Optimal: 1.10 g (measured)

The EVG PM3127DE (N75ED) shows 1.0 - 1.5 on the label.