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JICO SAS Discontinued

jeromach said:
Another possibility would be Jico having sold exclusive selling rights to another company. For Japanese people it already was not possible to buy through the international site, I guess to protect local dealers.
But of course it might have a totally different reason. By not mentioning any reason though, they feed the rumour machine. That might be orchestrated, although it doesn't really feel that way.
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No rights have been sold. I can't discuss particulars, but the reason is related to a manufacturing concern. If you know why the original Shure VN5MR and VN5xMR were discontinued, the manufacturing concern is in the same ballpark as the reason those Shure styli were discontinued. Sorry to be so opaque.
 
DustyOldPile said:
+1 for Corporate Greed as the likely cause.
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That's highly over-simplified but perhaps not too far from reality. I'm not defending anyone nor am I going to make accusations, but I will offer the following speculation: Japanese companies in this industry that are in business today still remember the fall out when the bottom dropped out of the analogue market. Anyone with an understanding of business culture in Japan knows that A) companies are extremely risk-averse, B) decisions are built upon consensus, and C) there is a tendency toward refinement, innovation, and replacement of things from the past.
 
grottyash said:
Precisely, more or less the same thing. Strikes me as a Jico publicity thing.
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grottyash - Trust me, this is not publicity. jkilla - I'm curious, I know Audio Technica is using tips similar to the SAS tip (though it's possible the major and minor radii specifications differ), as for boron cantilevers, who else in the industry uses them?
 
Yamaha1060 said:
IMHO the reason for Jico's step can be found in this video:

It shows Morita-san, the man who assembles the SAS styli. He clearly states that the wire tension system of the SAS stylus makes it a special stylus. And he seems to be the only person in the company who has the required skills to manufacture SAS styli. My guess: Demand has exceeded Jico's / Morita-san's production capacity.

Jico say: "We endeavor to refine the original design and bring you the next generation of Super Analogue Stylus as soon as possible."

My gut feeling tells me that the SAS styli will return either more expensive (to slow down demand) or with a simplier suspension system (which can be assembeld by less trained personnel).

BTW: Shure V15VMR and V15VxMR Micro Ridge styli without wire tension systems are still available from Jico: http://www.jico-stylus.com/product_info.php?cPath=18&products_id=1523
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Increased demand for the SAS is certainly a factor, and there is a limit to how many SAS styli we can produce in a given time frame. However, although these issues are related, the discontinuation has nothing to do with Morita-san.

It is certainly possible that the next generation of JICO's top-of-the-line styli will be more expensive. It depends on the materials needed to produce a stylus of equal or better quality to the SAS. You have to realize that even with the increase in SAS prices a few years back, the quality of materials and craftsmanship is unparalleled in this price range. In my own opinion, a $90 M97xE paired with a $167 N97xE SAS outperforms anything currently available in the $200-300 price range, including MC carts. I'm not just schilling for the company, I use this combination myself and I truly believe the SAS was long undervalued and extremely well qualified to challenge many of the popular cartridge/styli combinations that sell for twice the price of the combination mentioned above.

I don't know why the VN5MR and VN5xMR (non-SAS versions) weren't discontinued along with the SAS, they should have been removed from the website along with the rest. As of now they too are no longer available.
 
ranf1970 said:
Thanks for all this information noisemodule!
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Your're welcome! I wish I could be more active on forums, but I'm swamped with answering inquiries. This thread was actually a pro-active attempt to reach out to previous customers and those of you who have been wanting to buy an SAS. I still got a dozen emails after the announcement asking "but can you make JUST ONE MORE FOR ME?"

Hopefully we'll be able to develop a replacement that lives up to the legacy of the SAS. My advice to anyone who is still thinking about it: go get yourself one if you can, before prices go up any higher. Skeptics will say it's all a rouse, but from everything I've learned about styli I would guess that whatever comes next will be different. Not necessarily better, not necessarily worse, but different.
 
noisemodule said:
Your're welcome! I wish I could be more active on forums, but I'm swamped with answering inquiries. This thread was actually a pro-active attempt to reach out to previous customers and those of you who have been wanting to buy an SAS. I still got a dozen emails after the announcement asking "but can you make JUST ONE MORE FOR ME?"

Hopefully we'll be able to develop a replacement that lives up to the legacy of the SAS. My advice to anyone who is still thinking about it: go get yourself one if you can, before prices go up any higher. Skeptics will say it's all a rouse, but from everything I've learned about styli I would guess that whatever comes next will be different. Not necessarily better, not necessarily worse, but different.
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Fortunately I did grab one a few years back. Definitely very happy with it! I'm also glad that Morita-san is doing well.

I'm also interested in seeing what comes next.
 
My V15VMR SAS replacement came Saturday. :) The SAS for my V15 type IV should be here today.

While I didn't install the V15V SAS in my cart yet, I did look it over and found an issue with the damper/brush that seems to be the opposite of everyone else's experience. The general consensus seems to be the JICO versions of these assemblies aren't damped, or not damped enough. Unlike the OEM assemblies, the JICO are supposedly very loose and have no friction, and therefore no damping effect. Yet the one I just received is so stiff in it's motion that it can probably be considered "broken." It's almost like there is some kind of binding going on in the hinges. Interestingly, there does seem to be some kind of lubricating goop in the hinges but whatever it is, it's not helping the issue. It absolutely cannot be used as a damper or even as a lint pick brush the way it is, though. It just doesn't move.

Anyone have any ideas?
 
I liked the SAS myself, actually loved them on my Shure V15's but since have moved on from Shure/SAS to Soundsmith offerings. There is always something better out there. Old goes, new comes. It's the cycle of everything
 
needlestein said:
Where did you buy yours from? I'm wondering if one possibility is that before the SAS craze of last week that some of these had sat for a long time in stock not moving much if at all. I got mine from TTN, but it hasn't arrived yet. For me, I'd look real close at the operation of the hinges and then maybe see if I could judge if the lubricating grease in the hinge had perhaps dried up over time.

Problem here, too, is that a return at this point is probably only going to get you your money back. While I am very well versed on aftermarket stylus options for Stanton and Pickering stereo cartridges, I know virtually nothing about Shure especially the odd-sized V15-VMR. I think you/we have about five options total: SAS, LPGear ViVidline, LPGear HE, a Jico Shibata and a $50 EVG that may or may not be the same as the $80 ViVidline.
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TTN as well. I don't consider return an option because I doubt they can exchange the stylus, and because if the stylus itself is okay (and I have every reason to believe it is,) I couldn't in good conscience return it as "defective."

Later on this week I'll do a careful, side by side comparison between the SAS and Shure OEM and see what I can see regarding construction and assembly of the dampers. I may try applying some 99% isopropyl to the hinges and see if that loosens up the mechanism.
 
empirelvr said:
My V15VMR SAS replacement came Saturday. :) The SAS for my V15 type IV should be here today.

While I didn't install the V15V SAS in my cart yet, I did look it over and found an issue with the damper/brush that seems to be the opposite of everyone else's experience. The general consensus seems to be the JICO versions of these assemblies aren't damped, or not damped enough. Unlike the OEM assemblies, the JICO are supposedly very loose and have no friction, and therefore no damping effect. Yet the one I just received is so stiff in it's motion that it can probably be considered "broken." It's almost like there is some kind of binding going on in the hinges. Interestingly, there does seem to be some kind of lubricating goop in the hinges but whatever it is, it's not helping the issue. It absolutely cannot be used as a damper or even as a lint pick brush the way it is, though. It just doesn't move.

Anyone have any ideas?
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I have the same issue with the brush on my SAS and I recall reading that others have had the same problem. But since I'm using it on a low mass arm, I don't require the damping so I run it with the brush up.

Les
 
I just got the email from LP Gear:

Regrettably we are out of stock on this stylus. The manufacturer has discontinued production due to lack of essential parts. We do not know if and when we can obtain new stock.

We have refunded your payment in full:

I ordered it on Friday at the original price. They raised the price on their site on Saturday and again on Sunday. It looks like you can still place an order at the higher price.
 
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