Just read on Google Western Electric to build 300B's again
- Thread starter sanford12
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Also, one wonders what the longevity will be. The old ones seemed renowned for lasting 20K hours and still sounding good. Seemed like a lot of them went a lot longer than even that. I suppose if these last that long then they are still a great value compared to the other new production options that are usually rated for a couple thousand hours.
Spacey37308
Active Member
A tech friend knows the guy that has the rights to WE. Based in Rossville, GA , Western Electric has been making amps for the Asian market for a couple years. Custom built amps with high price tags.
I wonder how the new OPTs will be compared to the original western electric 171's on the 91a. Western electric has said they will reissue the 300b tubes for some time now, but hopefully now this is true!
FWIW, the person behind this version of WE/300B is the same as the last attempt of the 90s: Charles Whitener(sp).
As I recall, the 90s 300B while a close replica of the original, was poorly reviewed by a couple of influential Japanese opinion makers when compared to the original. This kinda killed the buzz around the replica and its production was short lived. In the mean time there’s been a number 300B types released by other mfgrs and many get good reviews so this “new” 300B is going to face more competition than before. Best of luck to the new venture......not holding my breath.
As I recall, the 90s 300B while a close replica of the original, was poorly reviewed by a couple of influential Japanese opinion makers when compared to the original. This kinda killed the buzz around the replica and its production was short lived. In the mean time there’s been a number 300B types released by other mfgrs and many get good reviews so this “new” 300B is going to face more competition than before. Best of luck to the new venture......not holding my breath.
BillWojo
Addicted Member
Is it really WE or just someone who purchased the rights to the name? Who has all the engineering drawings and documents?
It takes a lot of money to tool up to make tubes and a lot of expertise. There is nobody left from the original WE crowd that could do this anymore. What happened to all of the original tooling to stamp out all the intricate parts? Where will they be able to buy the original sheet metal with the special coatings and such arcane materials that were used in tube manufacturing? No steel company will even entertain quoting the material unless you were buying mass quantity's of it, ton's and ton's of it. Back in the hey day this was common material to source and special coatings were common. Today, there is very little need for it.
My guess is that IF they are built in the states, material and stampings will be sourced from China. Will they have the exact same property's as the originals? I think not. Either that or be prepared to spend many thousands of dollars per tube. Very high volume is the only thing that drives prices down. Tooling and bulk buy's of material can than be amortized over a lot of units. This is the reality of manufacturing. Whats the market? Maybe a few thousand a year if they are really good and not to expensive.
When I would quote a machined part, one part might be 500 bucks, 100 parts could be 25 bucks each or even a lot less. For one part I had to charge all the setup time, any special tools purchased and a high price for a small piece of material. Metal warehouses nick you pretty hard when they have to cut a piece off a bar. Sometimes it was cheaper to buy the whole bar!
BillWojo
It takes a lot of money to tool up to make tubes and a lot of expertise. There is nobody left from the original WE crowd that could do this anymore. What happened to all of the original tooling to stamp out all the intricate parts? Where will they be able to buy the original sheet metal with the special coatings and such arcane materials that were used in tube manufacturing? No steel company will even entertain quoting the material unless you were buying mass quantity's of it, ton's and ton's of it. Back in the hey day this was common material to source and special coatings were common. Today, there is very little need for it.
My guess is that IF they are built in the states, material and stampings will be sourced from China. Will they have the exact same property's as the originals? I think not. Either that or be prepared to spend many thousands of dollars per tube. Very high volume is the only thing that drives prices down. Tooling and bulk buy's of material can than be amortized over a lot of units. This is the reality of manufacturing. Whats the market? Maybe a few thousand a year if they are really good and not to expensive.
When I would quote a machined part, one part might be 500 bucks, 100 parts could be 25 bucks each or even a lot less. For one part I had to charge all the setup time, any special tools purchased and a high price for a small piece of material. Metal warehouses nick you pretty hard when they have to cut a piece off a bar. Sometimes it was cheaper to buy the whole bar!
BillWojo
Rumor has it that Whitener purchased rights to the WE name for audio use, the tech drawings and other doc and some of the original production equipment as well as the last of the remaining tungsten “melt” for filaments, much like first attempt. How this all works out remains to be seen.
BinaryMike
Pelagic EE
I never troubled myself to look up the 91a/b 'til just recently. This sacred cow apparently uses pentode voltage amplifiers, tons of electrolytic caps, and negative feedback!
maxhifi
Addicted Member
The new 91C is supposed to operate in A2 and use a toroid output transformer, to get 20W out of a single 300B. Sounds to me like a 91 in name only, but could be an interesting design in its own right...
soundmotor
super modified
For the Merrimack Valley Western Electric plant mothballed tooling & materials were rolled into scrap metal dumpsters when the Lucent reorganization took place. And that was for stuff used to make gear far more recent. By that time, mid-90s, it's almost certain that anything remotely vacuum-tube production related had been repurposed into other assembly lines or scrapped long before. I'd bet that was the same for plants all across the country.
Again, rumor or lore but Whitener appparenty bought up some tooling and other stuff at Kansas City facility where last 300Bs were last mfgd in early 90s. He also rented production space at that facility and hired some of the old 300B production team. Reportedly he also had to comply with WE’s rigorous SPC/QC requirements as a condition of using the WE name. I’m pretty sure all of this first round stuff was covered in detail in a VTV feature article. May be worth someone’s time to find it and post a link.
soundmotor
super modified
You know, I think he did buy gear out of the KC works but believe that was in the early 90s and not when 300Bs were last made there. IIRC that was a ~decade earlier.
My sentence was poorly structured: he bought the equipment in the early 90s from the KC facility that had last produced the 300B. I believe early 80s was the end of true WE 300B production at that facility as you recall.
bean_counter
Active Member
I would be very surprised if new production did happen. The owner has moved the company - and presumably the equipment - around a few times, and a year or so ago I saw that the Rossville GA address was on the real estate market. Not sure what the new amp lineup is but I imagine a jobber is making it, and it's simply marketed as WE. Seems to be a rich man's plaything, but kudos to him for saving the equipment - I hope he can make it work out.
The gripe with the '90s production was a batch with bad filaments that opened after a couple of hundred hours, and months and months of waiting for warranty replacements while they sorted things out. Reliability, tough customer service situation, and price was a buzzkill. Add to that losing the leased space in KC where the line was still located, and the old-timers he had hired to make the tubes. A real shame, they were really nice tubes, I had a borrowed quad in my system for a couple of weeks; run conservatively, worth the price. And that's saying something, I'm a cheap SOB
The gripe with the '90s production was a batch with bad filaments that opened after a couple of hundred hours, and months and months of waiting for warranty replacements while they sorted things out. Reliability, tough customer service situation, and price was a buzzkill. Add to that losing the leased space in KC where the line was still located, and the old-timers he had hired to make the tubes. A real shame, they were really nice tubes, I had a borrowed quad in my system for a couple of weeks; run conservatively, worth the price. And that's saying something, I'm a cheap SOB
arts
Addicted Member
restorer-john
Addicted Member
I especially like the 'add to cart' button for the monoblocks at $50,999.00 pair...
http://www.westernelectric.com/products/97a.html#specifications
Maybe I'll just add 4 to my cart, just for fun.
http://www.westernelectric.com/products/97a.html#specifications
Maybe I'll just add 4 to my cart, just for fun.
maxhifi
Addicted Member
I especially like the 'add to cart' button for the monoblocks at $50,999.00 pair...
http://www.westernelectric.com/products/97a.html#specifications
Maybe I'll just add 4 to my cart, just for fun.
Got to say, crazy prices, and the fact that I will never be able to afford them aside, those are really nice!
