KEF 104 ab

[SaSi]

IIRC, the KA5500 delivers between 50 ~ 60WRMS. That amount of power is fine for the 104ab provided you don't want to go to the 105+dB range. If the enclosures are in perfect shape (no scratches, dents or discolorations) and the drivers are in top shape, then $300 seems like a fair price considering what you get. There appears to be a surge of 104s on ebay.uk and although prices are low nobody's buying.

I run a pair of those in a large living room with a 70W RMS amp. They sound great and effortless and I have never cranked the amp higher than 1 o'clock.

What cart do you have on the Rega P1? The 104ab are quite revealing in the mid-highs and unless the cart is a good performer you will be missing a lot - let alone listen for yourself the cart's shortcommings. But with a nice cart the system will sing.

A point about the original foam grilles. When the 104 came out grill transparency and possible ill effects were very closely studied. The 104s closely follow the doctrine that the grill should not have any solid material. Both for the fear of difraction and for avoiding resonances on the lightweight false baffle that isn't too rigidly mounted anyway.

Hence came the idea of the foam mounted on velcro stripes. Agreed, it doesn't look all that professional (a snob relative that show these commented upon the grill and suggested that my latest DIY speakers suffer in the finishing touches) but they do their function ok.

I do have to point out though that the doctrine these enclosures are supposed to follow would not endorse the 5 mm extension of the side panels to the front to form a casing for the foam. These extensions go against every known good practice on enclosure building.

So, if I was to go ahead and build new grilles, I would utilize this existing frame to have the grill snugly fit inside. A set of velcro stripes against the existing ones on the front baffle would ensure a tight fit as well.

And as for the differences between the SP1022 and SP1039 versions of the B200, they are so different they should not even be called similar names. The SP1039 has a larger voice coil, lighter diaphragm, half the Qm and a higher power handling among other differences. There has to be a different former in the SP1039 voice coil as well as it goes up an additional 70 degrees Celcius in normal service temperature compared to the SP1022.

 

[spitfire411]

I have an Ortofon Red on my Rega. Forgot to mention I also have a NAD PP2.

The seller says the grilles are wood frame with stretched cloth. I take it these are not original??
This is what he said about the grilles:
"These grills are a wood frame stretched with grill cloth. There does not seem to be any sign of old foam on the fronts. In fact there is the wood veneer around the passive. this would not have been covered in foam.

there were several different versions of the 104ab. some were also sold as kits to save money."


I attached a couple pics he sent me, does this look like the original setup?

This is what he said he could get for the parts:
On ebay the T27 are selling for a bit over 100
the B200 around 50-75
the B139 for about 40-50
crossovers for 25

Thanks for the input!

Cheers

 

[SaSi]

These are kit versions. It's also clearly stated on the panel. KEF sold kit versions of the 104 and 104ab where you would receive a partial front baffle where to mount the T27, B200 and crossover with front panel. The rest of the enclosure had to be built by the DIYer.

So, these are not original KEF R104abs. Enclosure build quality and effectiveness are unknowns. They do appear to be in decent condition though.

Take his argument one step further and give him $225 for the whole lot saving him the trouble to part them out and ship items all over.

 

[spitfire411]

Thanks for all the info. I was unaware that they were sold of kits. I was wondering what the KIT meant on the panel. I am fairly new to all this and didn't grow up when these vintage speakers were made.

Do you even think they are worth $225 with the unknown in build construction you stated? I think I'd rather have something a little more genuine.

I saw a pair of JBL L16s (refoamed) for $130, are these a decent speaker for the price?
Also a pair of BANG & OLUFSEN BEOVOX S75 for $150. (Never heard of the brand before)

To not get off topic, I'm wondering how these speakers would compare to the KEF "kits"

Thanks again

 

[jan_stevns]

Thanks for all the info. I was unaware that they were sold of kits. I was wondering what the KIT meant on the panel. I am fairly new to all this and didn't grow up when these vintage speakers were made.

Do you even think they are worth $225 with the unknown in build construction you stated? I think I'd rather have something a little more genuine.

I saw a pair of JBL L16s (refoamed) for $130, are these a decent speaker for the price?
Also a pair of BANG & OLUFSEN BEOVOX S75 for $150. (Never heard of the brand before)

To not get off topic, I'm wondering how these speakers would compare to the KEF "kits"

Thanks again

Assuming the KEF kit is made as it is supposed to be - the sound of it is between the Amercian westcoast sound from the JBL's and the chilly sound from the Danish Bang & Olufsen S75 speaker ....

I like the KEF sound :tresbon:

btw.... B&o is a old Danish brand - even have some items on exibition at the Museum of modern art in NY
http://search.moma.org/?q=Bang+and+olufsen&q1=The%2BCollection&x1=category

 

[spitfire411]

So, when KEF sent out these kits, they told the DIYer the measurements of the enclosure and how to install the speakers into it? The DIYer was left to pick out the materials and such?
Just trying to figure this out. Never heard of this before.
I understand the components are worth the asking price, but if they are set up improperly or poorly, is it really worth it???
Or should I just save myself $100 or so and get the JBLs? Smaller, refoamed and a well known speaker?
Ahhhh. This hobby is driving me nuts!

 

[Transconductor]

I never realized these came with foam grills. Means mine were retrofitted with cloth.
Here's a few pics to show...
By the way, these are speaks I'd never part with. They sound good with every amp setup I've thrown at them.

 

[Balifly]

MY KEFab were purchased new.
The black foam cover rotted away due to age many years ago.
Fortunately there is a foam shop near by that sells speaker foam covers.
Unfortunately they are not black but light brown.
Next time I think I will try to get some red ones.
They were pretty inexpensive, $12.00 for both speaker covers.:thmbsp:

 

[SaSi]

So, when KEF sent out these kits, they told the DIYer the measurements of the enclosure and how to install the speakers into it? The DIYer was left to pick out the materials and such?
Just trying to figure this out. Never heard of this before.
I understand the components are worth the asking price, but if they are set up improperly or poorly, is it really worth it???
Or should I just save myself $100 or so and get the JBLs? Smaller, refoamed and a well known speaker?
Ahhhh. This hobby is driving me nuts!

What I'm going to write will make some people here laugh.

I had a pair of cabinets from ancient Avid 110 speakers. The tweeters were blown during a party when I was at high school (1982) and the 8" woofers had their foam surrounds rotten before I joined AK - i.e. I threw them in the recycle bin.

So as not to have the cabinets waste space - and I wouldn't throw them away as they were decently built - I mounted a KEF B200 SP1063 and a T33 driven through a two way crossover SP1052 designed for the KEF Corelli, suitable for the B200 in use but designed for a T27 rather than T33 and for a smaller sealed enclosure.

I also didn't have the back plates for the binding posts as I "recycled" them when the tweeters blew to use on my DYI CS1. The Avid binding post plates are unusually long and allowed the large crossover boards to slip inside.

So, here we are with a leaking cabinet hosting two good drivers in top condition driven by an unsuitable crossover with no dampening material inside.

Yet, they sound great for what they are. I am using these franKEFsteins in the workshop and although bass power handling isn't as high as it could, they sound decent.

So, what I'm trying to say here is that if the cabinets are half decent (and they appear to be quite a bit better than that) expect a fine pair of speakers, able to make lot's of other units vintage and current shy.

If you like jazz and classical music, these speakers are ideal. If you like classic rock but not high SPLs these will also do well. If you like heavy metal and high SPLs look for JBLs.

 

[spitfire411]

The majority of my collection is 70's rock with some pop. some 60's and 80's too. I also have a lot of punk stuff. (They are always releasing limited colour stuff that I'm a sucker for)
Don't want to sound like a total noob, but what do you mean by SPL?
Thanks.

 

[samplexample]

Spitfire,
What is the middle driver on those? I have a pair of Tangent RS-8s that need new woofers, they look very similar.

 

[Nat]

Its a KEF B 200, which came in various versions -- so you'd have to find which the Tangents used. And there was a Dalesford that looked rather like it also, so make sure it actually is a KEF.

 

[ColinR]

The Canadian pyrimidal Tangent RS series used Dalesford drivers for bass and midrange, no KEF drivers were used.



This post or any other information supplied to this website or any other by myself is not available as sales and marketing material for ePrey pimps and the like.

 

[jan_stevns]

The Canadian pyrimidal Tangent RS series used Dalesford drivers for bass and midrange, no KEF drivers were used.



This post or any other information supplied to this website or any other by myself is not available as sales and marketing material for ePrey pimps and the like.

curious to what speaker your avatar shows :yes:

 

[ColinR]

A little story, Burt Webb a retired school teacher designed a speaker for Audio Amateur, it's commercial incarnation was the Cambridge Audio R50, later "knocked off" for a magazine design by Chris Rogers who hadn't quite developed the Pro9TL.

Burt's other "commercial" transmission line is the trapizoidal lined Lentek Monitor, my avatar.

Using sleezeBay speak it's a "rare" speaker with about 500 built, 15 known pairs and I own two pairs .






This post or any other information supplied to this website or any other by myself is not available as sales and marketing material for ePrey pimps and the like.

 

[andersonpaul]

Kef b200 SP 1039

The 8" bass/mid in the 104ab is a very special low distortion driver with an underhung voice coil specified for lower-excursion use. Spendor bc 1 people claim that the bc-1 and kef b200 sp1039 are very similar. Not for headbanging or for transmission line use as were the two other monster sized magnet versions, the sp1055 and the 1022. More fragile, very detailed smooth and sweet. Perfectly and precisely engineered for just that box.

I was looking at a neat 250 watt amp, or at least i though it was an amp, and then i came across the picture of the back of it. Any clue as to what this amp might be used for?

All i know is that it is 125watts per channel, and made by Stronmberg Carlson.

I have attached pics of the front/back

cheers,
Colin

 

[SaSi]

The majority of my collection is 70's rock with some pop. some 60's and 80's too. I also have a lot of punk stuff. (They are always releasing limited colour stuff that I'm a sucker for)
Don't want to sound like a total noob, but what do you mean by SPL?
Thanks.

SPL=Sound Pressure Level, the measurement of how loud a sound is. 90dB is a moderately low level for enjoyable background music. Many loudspeakers produce that with 1W or less, others, like the 104ab, need a few Watts do deliver that.

 

[HPower]

Found some 104aBs?

I thought I would bring back this thread to see if you guys think I should jump on the 104s I just found.

I just came across a pair of mint Teak 104s when I went to pick up a H/K930 that I bought yesterday.
I have been into Klipsch speaker the last few years but have owned KEF 107s in the past.
Before being able to afford the big 107s, I remember listening to the original 104s and that is the speaker that really got me interested in KEF.

These 104s were owned by the same gentleman that owned the 930 I got and bothe the receiver and speakers have obviously been VERY well taken care of.
Yes the grills are long gone but I did not see a single mark on the cabinets.

Do the 104 drivers need rebuilding to the cones or surrounds over time?

The asking price was $150 for the pair... good , bad, or how high should I jump?

 

[Nat]

Are they 104s or 104aBs? That might matter to the price, but I don't know. As to the price, 150 for well cared for speakers isn't a whole lot of money, and given that they are a speaker you have an emotional connection with, it seems reasonable. The drivers themselves are probably worth that much.
And no -- the drivers don't need maintenance. Check the butyl surrounds to see that they haven't hardened -- I don't think this happens with KEFs, but with some other companies' surrounds it does. Other wise there isn't much to go wrong.
It's possible that the caps in the crossover might need replacing -- for some AKers, it's an article of faith, but others would want to see signs of problems before changing them. It's a complicated crossover so there are more than the usual number of caps, and they are electrolytic, so its possible that there might be some out of tolerance.

 

[leesonic]

$150 sounds like a good price for a set in good condition. I've seen them go for over £150 on eBay UK, and that's over $230 with the current exchange rate.