KEF 104 ab

[HPower]

Hi Nat,

Thanks for the info!
I just got off the phone with the seller and he is going to send me a couple of pics to refresh my memory.

Sounds similar to Heritage Klipsch in regards to up keep, just freshen the Xovers, the woofer surrounds last for ever.
Maybe replace a diaphragm in the horn drivers, and that's about it.

How do you distinguish between the difference between 104, 104aB...
I do know what the 104/2 is like.
Based on the vintage of the H/K930 receiver (1973-1975), I am guessing the 104s are also mid '70s.
The original owner even kept the manuals for both the H/K and 104s, very cool.

 

[HPower]

They are 104s, not 104aBs.

Well the pics confirm that the speakers are the 104s, vs. the 104aBs :sigh:

Should this make these a deal breaker?
What are the differences between the 2 models?
If it is just the Xover, and assuming the XOs do need a rebuild, can the rebuild bring the 104 Xover up to 104aB status without too much trouble?

Now I am not so sure, but they are in excellent condition cosmetically.

 

[Arthroscope]

MY KEFab were purchased new.
The black foam cover rotted away due to age many years ago.
Fortunately there is a foam shop near by that sells speaker foam covers.
Unfortunately they are not black but light brown.
Next time I think I will try to get some red ones.
They were pretty inexpensive, $12.00 for both speaker covers.:thmbsp:

I refurbed a pair of these last year and ended up using what was called 'filter foam'. I ended up spray painting it black and it seemed to work, I really couldnt hear any difference with the foam on or off. I could never find any info about how the original foam looked, on a couple photo's it looked like it was grooved in 2 inch or so squares. The finish was a real bear to remove. Sanding was too much effort so I stripped it and got gobs of a realy thick polymer before I got to bare wood. I used tung oil alone afterwards and it looked great.

How about a link for the foam? The stuff I used was OK but I thing it was about $40 which I thought was a little high.

 

[Nat]

You might be able to reconfigure the crossover -- there is a KEF speaker website run by an admirer which has the schematics and KEF's paper on the reasons for the switch. I also have an aB crossover out of a speaker that I could photograph for you if you wish.
Particularly if you are going to recap, it makes sense to upgrade, given what previous posters who have heard both versions have said.

 

[HPower]

Hey Nat,

I gave the seller a call and I agreed to take the 104s at $125 for the pair.
I am kind of kicking myself for not just throwing them in the car yesterday as it now means another 250 mile round trip to pick them up...
what was I thinking.

My friend that I sold my 107s to, found a local guy here in the Toronto are that is very good with speaker refurbs.
I think I will give him a call on Monday and see if he has done anything similar to the 104 to 104aB upgrade.
This guy did a fantastic job on rebuilding the woofers on the 107s.

 

[mech986]

You could look for 104aB crossovers, they do come up from time to time on that web auction place, look for canadian and british auctions, bolt in replacement. That said, if the inductors aren't different, then you could sub in the caps from the 104aB schematic, but I think the inductors will be different.

May also wish to check with Falcon Acoustics in Britain as they had a lot of DIY type crossovers that could be used as improvements. Malcom Jones, the original proprietor, designed these crossovers that KEF used before he started Falcon.

 

[Geoff777]

Really enjoyed a quick read through here!
Kef 104ab's are on a shortish list of all time fav's
I used to work in HiFi back at the end of the 70's/start of the 80's
and sold several pairs of them..
If I remember rightly those Kef speaker names related to the size
so B200 meant Bass 200mm (8")
B139 was 13 x 9 oval bass unit, or sometimes radiator.
T27 was a tweeter just over and inch (27mm)
(The mid/bass unit B100 was used in smaller units like the
Kef 101 based loosly on the LS3/5A)

 

[HPower]

Hey mech986,

Ya, just sent an Email of to both Falcon as well as Wilmslow Audio to see what they have to offer in the way of Xover bits.

I will also keep an eye on FleBay, good idea!

I am now looking forward to going back a getting these guys.

It will be interesting to see how they sound with both my new H/K930 that the original owner used, as well as my Audio Space Galaxy 300 (300B integrated in push pull, making 21wpc).

 

[1973BuickGS]

A pair of regular KEF 104 speakers sold for $430 in the UK a few days ago. $125 is nothing. Just the pair of tweeters alone go for around $100 on ebay easily, and the woofers probably sell for more than that. I spent about $300 fixing my 104aBs that I got for free from a friend and consider them worth every penny and then some. $90 of that was on a single tweeter that I didn't use, and I'm even okay with that.
As for the 104aB crossover, I've attached a schematic for them if you'd want to try to modify yours or make your own. If you can find a schematic for the 104, maybe you just have to add or swap some things, but the woofer, tweeter, and passive radiator are the same.
On the schematic, the T27 is the tweeter and the B200 is the woofer. The resistors are 3 and 10 ohm, and the inductor with three values is the one that goes with the "- REF +" switch. I assume the middle value of the three is the reference value.

 

[HPower]

Hey 1973BuickGS,

Thanks very much for the intel, much appreciated.

Yes, I figured these were a nice deal but I really was not looking for speakers so coming across these did catch me a little off guard.
I have actually been "trying" to thin things out a bit lately.
2 weeks ago I sold off my KHorns and Heresys and I am down to just my Cornwalls and a single La Scala.

And now after I pick these up next week, a pair of 104s... :yes:

.

 

[HPower]

Hey Guys,

Without breaking any rules I would like some advise.

Today a came in contact with a gentleman who has a pair of 104aB Xovers that he has offer to me.
He had these set aside for a project that looks like he will not be getting to.
What would be a fair price to offer him for the pair... fair for both him and I?
They are located in England, so I will have some shipping cost involved.

It is cool if PM'ing me is a more politically correct for money talk.

Thanks

 

[sealy]

Yeah, they are inefficient - I noticed that when I tried them on my Marantz 2230 in the basement, very flat sounding. Now that they are subbing in my main system, though, they are being fed by 500wpc monoblocks, and wow do they sing!

Leesonic : I'm in Branchburg, NJ - near Somerville.

Beware pushing the T-27's too hard. They have a tendency to fry.

 

[1973BuickGS]

Hey Guys,

Without breaking any rules I would like some advise.

Today a came in contact with a gentleman who has a pair of 104aB Xovers that he has offer to me.
He had these set aside for a project that looks like he will not be getting to.
What would be a fair price to offer him for the pair... fair for both him and I?
They are located in England, so I will have some shipping cost involved.

It is cool if PM'ing me is a more politically correct for money talk.

Thanks

I managed to get one crossover from an AK member for $25, but this was from the same guy that sold me TWO of the tweeters for only $100.
Maybe you should just ask him what he thinks is a fair price and see if it's something you're willing to pay. If not, see if you can go a little lower. Keep in mind that you should definitely recap them, and that will cost a little, but also keep in mind that you're getting $400+ speakers for only $125. Your overall cost after you're done will still make this an amazing deal.

 

[HPower]

Well,

The plot has now thickened.
I got the 104's home last Saturday and much to my dismay I discovered that one of the tweeter was not working.
I did not notice this when I picked them up and now I have more on my plate than worrying about updating the Xovers.

To be honest I feel that an impulsive buy has gotten me into more than I really want and now I am wounder if I should just cut my loses and sell them.
They have been at an acquaintance's house the last couple of days where he was checking out the dead tweeter as well as the rest of the components.
He verified that indeed the tweeter needs replacing but the rest looks fine.

My friend agreed that they are one of the nicer cosmetic examples that he has seen so it would be a real shame to give up on these but I was really looking for something that was plug and play.
Upgrading the Xovers would have been more of a luxury, were as a new tweeter would be a necessity.

 

[sendust]

The majority of my collection is 70's rock with some pop. some 60's and 80's too. I also have a lot of punk stuff. (They are always releasing limited colour stuff that I'm a sucker for)
Don't want to sound like a total noob, but what do you mean by SPL?
Thanks.

I also listen to alot of rock, Queen, Supertramp, Black Sabeth ,Elton John etc. And tried to find speakers that went with my Marantz 2275 or Pioneer sx1010. I found that the Cerwin Vegas and JBL,s that i tried seemed great for bass but lacking in midrange or highs, for me vocals are very important. I purchased a pair of Kef Reference 104 a/b and found them to be great for mid but at quite a loss for bass. I already had a pair of remodded by VL standards Mach 1 4024, that are amazing rock speakers but somtimes with groups like Eurythmics and supertramp loose a little with the higher notes. I decided to combine both speaker sets with my marantz, due to the fact that the kefs are not as efficient i placed them approximately 16 inches closer to my listening area and i can tell you for rock the combo is to die for, just an observation..

 

[Nat]

If this hasn't been answered yet, SPL is sound pressure level.

 

[Geoff777]

Incidentaly - the efficiency of a speaker makes a big difference in the
volume stakes.
Usually quoted for 1W @1meter the Kef 104ab is rated:
Sensitivity 1W (2.83V/1m) gives 88dB
88db is not too bad in this day and age, so was fairly good back in their day
However some of the likes of the thunderous Cerwin Vega (Boom & Tizz
brigade) were more efficient.
What does this all mean practically?
Well - If one speaker has an efficiency of 88db for 1W and another similar
speaker has an efficiency of 3db more 91 db for 1 W it is the same effectively as
having an amplifier of twice the output power rating.
For every 3db more efficiency - it is like doubling your power.
So my little old Rogers LS 3/5a's efficiency is 82.5db
My Tannoys are 92.5db - do the sums - there is a massive audible difference in volume.
Therefore I have permanently loaned the LS3/5a's to my Mum as they closer match her
Leak Mini Sandwich speakers for volume!!!
(A pair in front and a pair in the back rooms).
More efficiency also seems (to me) to make the dynamic range better. They just seem to be
able to react better to bursts of loud sound.
Going back to the Derwin Vegas - I cannot remember the efficiency of them - but it was high
- something along the lines of 93 - 96db as I recall (it was a long time ago I worked in Hifi )

 

[fonon]

Hi,
Look at the photo attached. Not original cases? DIY variations about KEF?
Regards,
f.

 

[Geoff777]

Those 'look' to me like they should work quite well.
Impressive alternative - I like
How do they sound??

 

[mech986]

Hi,
Look at the photo attached. Not original cases? DIY variations about KEF?
Regards,
f.

DIY variation using KEF 104 components, very similar to KEF's own Calinda version using similar drivers and passive radiator in similar slim / deep cabinet.

The Carlton II and III were similar but used updated B200 drivers and tweeters.