Now THAT's refreshing, but I'm afraid I hear an upswelling of collective groaning SPL here.
[Prepare to DUCK...!
]:zoom:
Klh 17
- Thread starter Zilch
- Start date
[Prepare to DUCK...!
]
Long days, all this week.
Paratima
E'Wavin'
Eval still to come. Waiting for the Elmer's to dry and thinking black thoughts about the pitfalls of working with 40-year-old fiberboard.
There WILL be a cautionary note about this in the blog! I decided to use T-nuts for the speakers, esp. the woofers, as they may be out frequently to make changes. Well, the old particle board doesn't want to hold them very well. If there is a sinking feeling, it happens when you go to tighten/loosen one of the speaker screws and you wind up pushing the T-nut free of the wood. Not helpful.
And I do mean particle board. The KLH cabs do not have the same heavy, dense feeling as, say, my Advents. Much lighter, much coarser grain.
There WILL be a cautionary note about this in the blog! I decided to use T-nuts for the speakers, esp. the woofers, as they may be out frequently to make changes. Well, the old particle board doesn't want to hold them very well. If there is a sinking feeling, it happens when you go to tighten/loosen one of the speaker screws and you wind up pushing the T-nut free of the wood. Not helpful.
And I do mean particle board. The KLH cabs do not have the same heavy, dense feeling as, say, my Advents. Much lighter, much coarser grain.
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Paratima
E'Wavin'
Hmmm. Exemplary woodworking skills are in short supply around my home, but I muddle along. About the best I've managed is "adequate".
Had 2 T-nuts give way and the other 2 look fine. Collected the slackers, slathered them up with Elmer's, which has been known to fix some pretty big whoopses, and put them back in. Letting it dry till morning & I'll try again.
BTW, Zilch, I haven't put in the ports yet. You seemed to indicate ambivalence on the porting issue, so I thought I'd give 'em a test without and take some measurements. Then play.
Heh, right now, I just want to hear 'em sing, even if it is somewhat off-key.
Below, problem and (hopefully) solution. If this doesn't work, I'll use your method.
Had 2 T-nuts give way and the other 2 look fine. Collected the slackers, slathered them up with Elmer's, which has been known to fix some pretty big whoopses, and put them back in. Letting it dry till morning & I'll try again.
BTW, Zilch, I haven't put in the ports yet. You seemed to indicate ambivalence on the porting issue, so I thought I'd give 'em a test without and take some measurements. Then play.
Heh, right now, I just want to hear 'em sing, even if it is somewhat off-key.
Below, problem and (hopefully) solution. If this doesn't work, I'll use your method.
Attachments
Paratima
E'Wavin'
Smooooooooooooooooooooth!
OK, got the first ZLH-17 buttoned up! See photo a few posts back. Boyoboy, have I learned a few things about speaker bits!
Bass: I'm hearing some big, round low notes that I never heard before! I've got a couple of CD's that make notes of which I'm sure I've only ever heard the 1st harmonic. Gettin' down there now. The bass has a lot more authority. Not earth-shaking, not a revolution, but still not ported either. :scratch2:
Treble: For all that my ears have given up on anything much above 10K, bells and cymbals sound a lot more "ringy". Haven't played anything violin-y yet. I think I was getting shortchanged in the VHF region. I'll have to ask my wife - she supposedly can still hear that kind of stuff. Hmmm, maybe ask the cat, too. I know he can hear it! (Cats can out-hear dogs, even. Up to ~55-60K!!! A cat can zero in on a bat echo-locating!
Once in a very great while, to the bat's downfall, if he flies too low. 
)
Mids: No wonder everybody likes those Seleniums. Smoooooooooooooth.
Overall: The major difference I hear is clarity, especially when I crank on the Loud pedal. I've got a recording of music by Holst, played by the English Sinfonia. There are 28 players on this CD and I think I can hear every one of them, even at window-rattling levels.
That's all for now. Gotta finish building #2. Then gonna take some more measurements. Then play with ports. Heh, heh, think Dynaco...
OK, got the first ZLH-17 buttoned up! See photo a few posts back. Boyoboy, have I learned a few things about speaker bits!
Bass: I'm hearing some big, round low notes that I never heard before! I've got a couple of CD's that make notes of which I'm sure I've only ever heard the 1st harmonic. Gettin' down there now. The bass has a lot more authority. Not earth-shaking, not a revolution, but still not ported either. :scratch2:
Treble: For all that my ears have given up on anything much above 10K, bells and cymbals sound a lot more "ringy". Haven't played anything violin-y yet. I think I was getting shortchanged in the VHF region. I'll have to ask my wife - she supposedly can still hear that kind of stuff. Hmmm, maybe ask the cat, too. I know he can hear it! (Cats can out-hear dogs, even. Up to ~55-60K!!! A cat can zero in on a bat echo-locating!
Once in a very great while, to the bat's downfall, if he flies too low. )Mids: No wonder everybody likes those Seleniums. Smoooooooooooooth.
Overall: The major difference I hear is clarity, especially when I crank on the Loud pedal. I've got a recording of music by Holst, played by the English Sinfonia. There are 28 players on this CD and I think I can hear every one of them, even at window-rattling levels.
That's all for now. Gotta finish building #2. Then gonna take some more measurements. Then play with ports. Heh, heh, think Dynaco...
Don't know which E'Wave PCB you're using, but the HF polarity is reversed on the overlay of the initial 3" x 6" ones. My fault, I had inverted-polarity JBL woofers connected when I prototyped them.
We'll fix that on the next run. There's a note about this in the Bauhausler's Advent E'Wave thread, as well, describing the difference he hears when connected both ways.
Bottom line: Per Jack's schematics, L-Pad terminal 2 connects to HF (+) when running with standard polarity woofers.... :yes:
We'll fix that on the next run. There's a note about this in the Bauhausler's Advent E'Wave thread, as well, describing the difference he hears when connected both ways.
Bottom line: Per Jack's schematics, L-Pad terminal 2 connects to HF (+) when running with standard polarity woofers.... :yes:
You'll be able to see it in your measurements; if the polarity is wrong, there'll be a dip in the system response at crossover, ~2 kHz.
Jack and I wire L-Pads differently, also. He's an Altec guy, I'm JBL.
http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2304672#post2304672
E'Wave crossover is Jack's design, so the PC boards do it Jack's way.... :thmbsp:
Jack and I wire L-Pads differently, also. He's an Altec guy, I'm JBL.
http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2304672#post2304672
E'Wave crossover is Jack's design, so the PC boards do it Jack's way.... :thmbsp:
Paratima
E'Wavin'
Glissando on the ZLH
I was just listening to one of my all-time major league favorites, Beethoven's Symphony #6 on the ZLH. I LOVE this piece! I have likely listened to it a thousand times and with any luck, before I cash in, will listen another thousand (at least). Well...
I just heard something I've never heard before, although it's the same recording I've been listening to for years. It's performed by the master of Beethoven interpretation (imho), Leonard Bernstein, conducting the Vienna Philharmonic.
In the first movement, Ludwig scored a bloody huge bunch of runs by damn near every instrument in the orchestra, from high to low and running about one octave. Well, at two, maybe three, places (I've got to let it rest, then listen again), he has that run done by the double basses - glissando! Every other time the basses underscore the theme, it's played with normally bowed notes, or sometimes pizzicato. But here he does it glissando, which on a double bass is very impressive. If you're listening casually, it flies right by. Oh yeah, you'd say, nice passage. But if you really listen, it's so cool. The glissando is so low it shakes the floor, but just for a second! Then it's gone. Did I really hear that? I had to play it again. Yep, it's really there, about 3:30 into the movement and again, maybe 20 seconds later.
It's like eating a Snickers bar and finding that someone has hidden a cashew in among the peanuts! I imagine Ludwig thinking, "Let's see who's paying attention." ...and who has the speakers to play it so it can be heard.
I was just listening to one of my all-time major league favorites, Beethoven's Symphony #6 on the ZLH. I LOVE this piece! I have likely listened to it a thousand times and with any luck, before I cash in, will listen another thousand (at least). Well...
I just heard something I've never heard before, although it's the same recording I've been listening to for years. It's performed by the master of Beethoven interpretation (imho), Leonard Bernstein, conducting the Vienna Philharmonic.
In the first movement, Ludwig scored a bloody huge bunch of runs by damn near every instrument in the orchestra, from high to low and running about one octave. Well, at two, maybe three, places (I've got to let it rest, then listen again), he has that run done by the double basses - glissando! Every other time the basses underscore the theme, it's played with normally bowed notes, or sometimes pizzicato. But here he does it glissando, which on a double bass is very impressive. If you're listening casually, it flies right by. Oh yeah, you'd say, nice passage. But if you really listen, it's so cool. The glissando is so low it shakes the floor, but just for a second! Then it's gone. Did I really hear that? I had to play it again. Yep, it's really there, about 3:30 into the movement and again, maybe 20 seconds later.
It's like eating a Snickers bar and finding that someone has hidden a cashew in among the peanuts! I imagine Ludwig thinking, "Let's see who's paying attention." ...and who has the speakers to play it so it can be heard.
Woofer looks good, and the crossover seems to be occurring in the right place.
I'll have to build up the filters again to measure the system impedance for comparison to your results.
The Seleniums went to MI for E'Waving some AR2As, but I have others here.... :yes:
This crossover:
I'll have to build up the filters again to measure the system impedance for comparison to your results.
The Seleniums went to MI for E'Waving some AR2As, but I have others here.... :yes:
This crossover:
Paratima
E'Wavin'
OK, I'll keep looking. Had some more minor mechanical problems. Sure wish I'd paid more attention in Shop! :sigh: I can solder to NASA specs, but can't bend wood to save my donkey. Wait! It's metal you bend, right? Can't cut wood... that's the ticket.
Second unit almost ready to play, but LaWife & I are taking a couple of days R&R over around St. Augustine. Leaving tomorrow & should be back & ready to test sometime Sunday afternoon. Meanwhile, I'll try this and that. Also will match schematic to crossover board one MORE time, just to be sure!
Second unit almost ready to play, but LaWife & I are taking a couple of days R&R over around St. Augustine. Leaving tomorrow & should be back & ready to test sometime Sunday afternoon. Meanwhile, I'll try this and that. Also will match schematic to crossover board one MORE time, just to be sure!
So what's the word on ported vs. un-ported for the ZLH-17s? If ported, what are the parts required? I remember reading 1.5" diameter and an elbow is needed, but don't ever remember seeing the complete specs.?
Also, the parts list shows two different Selenium tweeter possibilities, one costing 50% more. What's the advantage of the 220 over the 210?
I've got some KLH-20s waiting to hear this decision. :yes:
Also, the parts list shows two different Selenium tweeter possibilities, one costing 50% more. What's the advantage of the 220 over the 210?
I've got some KLH-20s waiting to hear this decision. :yes:
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Skywave and Kegger have found some additional "Clearance" options over in the E'Wave thread:
http://www.loudspeakersplus.com/product.asp?specific=jrdpnmp0
http://www.loudspeakersplus.com/product.asp?specific=jqcoioo4
http://www.loudspeakersplus.com/product.asp?specific=jrdpnmp0
http://www.loudspeakersplus.com/product.asp?specific=jqcoioo4
2 x 1.5" x 8.5" long, elbowed, aimed up along the sides of the compression driver.... :yes:
Paratima
E'Wavin'
I'm new to the porting business (and others of not immediate importance). I'm going to put in two ports, using 1-1/2" Schedule 40 with a 90 degree radius-turn elbow. So I drill a 1-7/8" hole. I'll cut a chunk of pipe to go from hole to elbow and another to go from elbow up the box. Rinse & repeat. No sweat.
Now the details: You said 8-1/2". Does that include the bit that goes through the baffle? If not, what's recommended for that bit? Also, what's good for sticking Sched. 40 to 40-year-old particle board? Need a little help here, please. :saywhat: :ntwrthy:
Now the details: You said 8-1/2". Does that include the bit that goes through the baffle? If not, what's recommended for that bit? Also, what's good for sticking Sched. 40 to 40-year-old particle board? Need a little help here, please. :saywhat: :ntwrthy:
It's the total length, ~8.5", from the front of the baffle, including that portion going through it, as best you can guesstimate that through the centerline of the elbow.
For now, just wrap the outside diameter with masking tape to make a tight fit in the hole in the baffle. Glue with silicone RTV later, after you determine the design is final.... :yes:
Paratima
E'Wavin'
Excellent advice, i.e., your explanation is geared to my level of implementation competence. Measuring, sawing, fitting, happening right now. :thmbsp:
Well, as soon as my drill recharges and I find where I put my damn hacksaw...
Edit: According to my calculations, the elbow adds 1-1/2 inches to the total length, assuming the pipe sections are fully seated in the elbow. Which makes sense, thinking about the centerline of a radius-turn 90-degree bend of a 1-1/2" pipe. Yup, gotta be 1.5 inches, exacto, en punto. So, if the bit that connects to the baffle is 3", and the pointy-up bit is 4", adding the 1.5" of the bend gives 8.5" total.
Well, as soon as my drill recharges and I find where I put my damn hacksaw...
Edit: According to my calculations, the elbow adds 1-1/2 inches to the total length, assuming the pipe sections are fully seated in the elbow. Which makes sense, thinking about the centerline of a radius-turn 90-degree bend of a 1-1/2" pipe. Yup, gotta be 1.5 inches, exacto, en punto. So, if the bit that connects to the baffle is 3", and the pointy-up bit is 4", adding the 1.5" of the bend gives 8.5" total.
