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Klipsch Jubilee Crossover Network

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krytar

krytar

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I know that Al has a very bad taste for those Klipsch engineers, but I didn't know much what was going on until I signed up for the Klipsch Forum yesterday. Initially, I was looking for the schematic of crossover networks that Klipsch uses in their systems. I read many threads that involved AL & Roy, and others. Oh Boy, now I know why. What a wasting effort for Al to convince those Klipsch engineers to improve their design.

To my disbelieve that how Klipsch have been using very bad designs in their systems. I looked at their circuit designs, and just wonder how could they come up with something like that.
 
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As a Jube owner (who is using an active crossover), any thoughts by you to share your design with me?

I've asked another Jube owner if he wanted to swap out xovers for a while so I could experience the passive and he could experience the active.

We've not done anything like that (yet??)... dunno if we ever will.
 
Yikes...those second graphs were't there a moment ago!!

Are you posting more? (as he sits back & waits...)

:scratch2:

(btw, welcome to the site AND to the Klipsch site)
 
Guys,

I have not made any announcements about it up till now, but I also did a design for the new Jube using woofer impedance data taken on a Jube clone built by JC (Cullison) using the same drivers and the "real" Jube. I gave the design to him and to Dean Wescott.

JC actually built an earlier design I gave him. The earlier design had compromises to remove the output inductor from the lowpass entirely for ease of laying out the board. The later design added one to raise the output inductor a bit which resulted in much better performance. I suppose it's time to let the new one out of the bag.

As Keytar has just demonstrated, DelGado's filter is nothing short of CRAP! Anyone who lays out the kind of bucks required for such a high end item like the new Jube deserves a good product. Klipsch has only done half the job!

Coytee,

Your involvement in this has weighed on my mind and I want to thank you for your efforts again! I hope the design I will publish shortly will be of help. There is still the matter of the equalizer that your system will require. The one I did was for the K-69 and K510 combination. It is probably not right for your driver if it's different.

Al K.
 
Guys,

Here is the computer schematic and plots through the highpass and lowpass of my newer design for the Jubilee. Of course, it's extreme-slope and intended to work into the complex impedance of the Jubilee woofers (4.8 Ohms in series with 0.6 mHy). The 0.3 MHy inductor at the woofer filter output is real. The .6 Mhy represents the woofer voice coil inductance and should be left OUT of the assembly. Also note that the insertion loss with real world components is nearly 6 dB at the crossover frequency. This is "Linziwitz-Riley" (spelling?) alignment and should sum up perfectly between channels at the crossover assuming the phasing is correct.

If anybody can't figure the schematic from the PCFILT drawing I will draw it up formally.

NOTICE: As with all the crossover designs that I release for the DIY community, I give permission for anyone who cares to duplicate my designs for his own use to do so but I retain the right to build it for profit. In this case however, being vindictive, I refuse to allow anyone who works for Klipsch to build it.

I still need to scan the plots for the equalizer.

Krytar,

Please give us your design also, but work the voice coil inductance into the filter before you do. I know you are not totally convince of the need for this as yet, but I think you will be very shortly! Owners of the Jubilee deserve all the options they can get! As an S/FSILYN user, you are the only other filter person I have met in the Klipsch community who can do it!

AL K.
 

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Guys,

Here is my jurey-rig equalizer for the Klipsch K-69 and K510 combination. The acoustic plots were thanks to JC loaning me his driver and horn.

Note that it was intended to be used with the ES700 crossover at a 6 Ohm level. The 10 Ohm swamping resistor needs to be replaced with 6.8 Ohms for the Jubilee 4.8 Ohm highpass filter.

I am NOT and expert on equalizers at all. I am concerned that the equalizer will knock the sensitivity down too low to be used with the Jubilee. As you can see, the sensitivity was 90 - 100 dB SPL with 2.8V applied.

Al K.
 

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Krytar,

What circuit simulator are you using? SPICE? Touchstone / Libra maybe? PCFILT will generate Touchstone net lists and S/FILSYN will generate PCFILT "dzn" files. Maybe we can share designs using some of these formats. BTW: I have a program I wrote that will read in Touchstone files and convert them to PCFILT files.

Al K.
 
Krytar,

The equalizer that Coytee needs is for the big horn he has. It's the one on his avatar. He is using the same driver as JC but a different horn. The problem is that I don't know what correction is needed. I would need the raw response of the driver and horn. His is a least partly constant directivity. If you look on the Klipsch site, DelGado published all sorts of plots on his horn but conveniently left out the on-axis frequency response! To make matters even worse, when he gave the data to Richard (Coytee) on how to set up the active crossover he is using he didn't even bother to give him the amplitude equalization data. All he got was time equalization to add to the woofer channel!

BTW: The EQ I posted is as you describe. It's an attenuator with an L-C resonant at the highest frequency to equalize. The L/C ratio determines the slope and the resistors the ultimate correction. I started it with the computer and finish it up by "giant-thumb" on the bench while making acoustic plots. The correction ends at about 18 KHz. To get it flat to 20 KHz reduced the sensitivity way to much.

Al K.
 
I forgot that I had drawn up and scanned the Jubilee network when I sent to to JC. Here it is.

Al K.
 

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Al Klappenberger said:
The one I did was for the K-69 and K510 combination. It is probably not right for your driver if it's different.

Al K.
Click to expand...

Well, I've got the K-69 but I've got the K402 horn...you know...the dinky one

:D

(same one as Dean/Bob/Ralph/Mike and soon to be Bill)

Then there is Bob who has the K69 and "6foot8" who has the commercial Jube in the 3 way...we're slowely getting them out there!! :thmbsp:
 
Richard,

Yes, and that's a problem because I don't have the response on the "dinky" little horn! I can't come up with a passive equalizer until I have at least the response plot. :tears:

AL K.
 
I could call you on the phone and put the phone mouthpiece up to the horn??

(just trying to think outside the box for ya!)

:scratch2:
 
Richard,

I don't think that's gonna work!

The only way I know to get the info is from DelGado. I assume you are still on good terms with him. MAYBE he will give you the on-axis plot, but I doubt it. I suspect it's a company secret because plots of CD horns always look bad without equalization and manufacturers don't want the average customer to see them. He is also going to want to know why you want it. You might try telling him you want to play with the active equalizer in your crossover to exaggerate some area for some reason. You need to make up some story! If you tell him I want it, he's going to shut down like flipping off a light switch!

Al K.
 
Richard.

One option to try is to use above mentioned designs w/o EQ in the passive. Use one amp and use your EV dx38 for parametric EQ only. Then you have the flexibility to tweak some when you put the jubes in your new HT room. You may not like that flexibility. You could later add passive EQ "after" the network.

This is what I did with the K510 CD horn. One amp, ALK ESN, dbx parametric EQ. No EQ was needed when using the Altec 902-511 combo.

Al K. had my K510, K69 to work on a EQ to work with my Bass reflex single K33 in my HT and go 2 way. As you know...I have packed everything up and the K510's aren't even being used right now. Never tried it out.

jc
 
Please forgive my ignorance. Is it assumed that the factory Jubilee crossover at the head of this thread is different than the PWK designed crossover? Would it be useful to find out if it is different?
 
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