Klipsch Jubilee Crossover Network

[krytar]

Hot Water

Hi All,

:tears: I'm in hot water for posting the data of new crossover network designs on the net. I was using company computer. By law, they all belonged to the company. I have to delete them all from the forum since I didn't have the permission to do it (yet!). :thumbsdn:

I thought it was kinda fun to do it, and it takes very little time to design them. Well, I'll have to find the way to help you guys on this!

I'll be back, promise!

 

[Al Klappenberger]

Krytar,

BUMMER! :gigglemad Check you email. I may have the answer to this.

JC and Coytee,

I think you have the answer for Richard, JC. The same equalization that you have set into the active crossover now should do for use with my passive crossover. You simply have to set it flat below 600 Hz and connected it right at the input of the amp that's driving the Jubilee.

Nakdoc,
I don't think PWK ever did a crossover for the Jubilee. He was just leading DelGado by the had on the design of the new woofer. It's a moot point though because PWK wasn't a filter designer either. I forgive him though because of the age he lived in. DelGado should know better! PWK was pioneer. DelGado is just a Pompu.... <Sensored, Sensored>.


Al K.

 

[krytar]

AL,

Thank you for your email, that's very nice of you!
I think I'll take both.

It's not the problem that I use my time at work to do the crossover designs. The company let me do whatever I'd like after my main work are done. BUT, all the results from my "playing" belong to the company ! That's fair!

 

[Al Klappenberger]

Guys,

Krytar had to delete his plots on the Hack job network DelGado designed for the Jubilee. I have no such restrictions.

Here it is..

Al K.

 

[Al Klappenberger]

Krytar,

Call me later tonight.

Al K.

 

[jwcullison]

Al

On the high pass section of your design, the "second" set of parallel caps have a value of 12uF and 24uF. How come you didn't suggest similar cap values...such as 18uF and 18uF?

jc

 

[krytar]

Al,

I think can still leave the Klipsch Jubilee analysis data here since the circuit is public.

I have to remove any new data, ckt, design approach...that was working on company computer. Only you and I understand the way we do crossovers in this forum.

 

[Al Klappenberger]

JC,

On the cap values, I think I had SoniCaps in mind. They don't come in 18 uF. 18 + 18 is fine though if they come in that value by the brand you are thinking of.

Krytar,

I looked quickly and saw that you had deleted the hack design plots, so I put the PCFILT analysis of it up.

AL K.

 

[krytar]

Oh,

Sh********! The data was also removed. I thought that can stay. :grumpy:

I have to either delete or edit all messages that has reference to my work to comply with the policy.

 

[Coytee]

I don't know your reality at work but I must say that I at least, admire the diligence you show regarding their policy.

:thmbsp:

 

[Al Klappenberger]

Krytar,

I think you can control the attachments separately from the text. You just have to upload stuff as attachments rather than having it show in the post. I get the impression your employer did the delete rather then you. If true, I'm surprised you gave them your password! That is proprietary to YOU!

AL K.

 

[krytar]

Al,

I didn't use Audio Karma server as a host of my pictures/files like you do. I placed my pictures/files under one folder on my company server. I had removed all the reference to the company and myself. They probably removed the whole folder after that.

I had to go back to my post either to edit out all the link to the files/pictures or deleted the message completely. Even though they didn't know where did I post the message, but I'd rather make it clean on my part.

Nobody has the access to my Audio Karma account but me.

 

[Deang]

Yes, and that's a problem because I don't have the response on the "dinky" little horn! I can't come up with a passive equalizer until I have at least the response plot.

You have the plot, I emailed it to you.

I am concerned that the equalizer will knock the sensitivity down too low to be used with the Jubilee. As you can see, the sensitivity was 90 - 100 dB SPL with 2.8V applied.

Your plot shows +/-10dB across the horn's range, with an average sensitivity of 95dB. Of course, the LF section is 105dB, and we are now at +/-15dB. My Delhacko network does quite a bit better than that.

I've said this to you many times, the only thing that matters is the acoustic response.

 

[Deang]

If you look on the Klipsch site, DelGado published all sorts of plots on his horn but conveniently left out the on-axis frequency response!

No it's there. On-axis response doesn't reflect the true response anyway. The goal is a smooth in-room power response, which is a combination of on-axis and off-axis energy.

I think these accusations are unfair. Though under no obligation to do so, he's provided a significant amount of data along with some well reasoned explanations. Really, I don't see other manufacturers providing much of anything on their designs -- you don't get anything unless you see it in some reviewer's test report.

 

[Deang]

Here is the raw, out of network response of the K-402/K-69-A. It's +/-5dB from 6kHz to 18kHz. There is no reason to correct out to 18kHz, which only results in reduced sensitivity of the system. Correct out to 6kHz, and you have a 100-105dB top section. There are two large peaks below 6kHz, so you need two traps to pull them down and match the sensitivity of the uncorrected response. You can leave the peak at the end of the response in place to account for the natural falling response of middle-aged hearing loss. Sounds pretty good to me.

 

[Al Klappenberger]

Krytar,

I do have a section of my ALK Engineering web site set aside for pictures I can link to. I usually use that for eBay listings mostly. Contact your ISP. They often give away web site space to customers.

Dean,

I have received NOTHING from you lately. I did not even receive a confirmation that you received my new Jubilee network design when I email it to you. As to my comments about the Klipsch stuff: They stand. That plot you posted, I have seen it before and I am not convinced it applies to Richards horn. If the Klipsch high end is not hot enough for passive equalization then it must be equalized by an active unit ahead of the amp. I would use a horn with a flat on-axis response for a home system. If, on the other hand, that crappy passive network DelGado did actually yields a flat response then passive is possible. I have no respect for any of this until I get my hands on it myself!


Al k.

 

[BECtoo]

Al,

As Dean mentioned, Klipsch, through Roy, has provided us a wealth of information on the Jubilee and he did not have to do that. Of course Roy is a better man than I, but if I were doing it, I might have had a qualification on that info saying something like:

"All are free to use this info except employees of ALK Engineering."

Bob Crites

 

[Al Klappenberger]

Bob,

DelGado is only an employee of Klipsch. His say-so on what people build of designs post on the Klipsch forums carries no wight at all. Klipsch owns them, NOT HIM! If Klipsch wants to keep their designs secret they would cut them off the forum just like Krytar's employer did. I, on the other hand, am everythnig from engineer, to production, to management to Janitor of ALK Engineering. I own my designs and do with them what I like. What I like is to keep incompetent people who only SEEM to have credibility from giving opinions on what they don't understand. The Klipsch people obviously do not understand filters! If they have no permission to build my designs they can't post opinions without admitting they have built my designs. This opens them to legal action. I am not worried about them doing computer simulation. I don't think they have the software to do it! This is the insurance I am counting on.

BTW: They have no fear of my doing anything with their crumby crossover designs!

Al K.

 

[krytar]

Deang's equalizer

Hi Deang,

I've got the EQ for you, PM me for the design. It's simple & use standard values. You can build it very easily. Here is its spec:

Insertion Loss: 1.2 dB
Slope: 5 dB Negative
VSWR: 1.7:1

Here is the graph of the response with & without my equalizer:

 

[krytar]

Dean G

Hi Dean,

Here is another equalizer network, which is a bit more complicated but not that hard to build. Once again, all values used are standards. This network involves 2 pair of L/C and 3 resistors to create 2 valleys at different frequencies (one the low end & another at ~13KHz). The insertion loss of the network is about 1.0 dB.

I can add more insertion loss at Mid to Low to bring the high end (>18KHz) up a bit, but I don't think you care.

Here is the analysis: