Large Advent Cap size?
- Thread starter CT Jim
- Start date
Register to hide this ad
What do you mean by second generation?
Do you mean New Large Advents?
Do they have flush mounted tweeters and all metal frame woofers?
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=126376
I would open them and see what caps you have.
Do you mean New Large Advents?
Do they have flush mounted tweeters and all metal frame woofers?
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=126376
I would open them and see what caps you have.
Last edited:
cubby01
aka Buck
Yup, its worth the 5 minutes to know for sure.
Yes, the model appears to be The new Large Advent as noted, however, the speaker label only says "The Advent Loudspeaker". In the explanation below the new advent, it talks about the red and green tweeters. I have the green, but I also have the metal frame woofers.
OK, I'll pull one and mess up another section of the shop until I get back to them
OK, I'll pull one and mess up another section of the shop until I get back to them
They made so many variations of the Large Advent Speaker that you must open it up to get it right.
http://baselaudiolab.com/ADVENT_LA_XO.html
http://www.theprojectasylum.com/ele...r/adventcrossover/adventcrossoverdiagram.html
Don't mess with the values or you'll be unhappy. My particular speakers use the .3mh inductor and a 13uf capacitor. I've tried 12uf and 15uf caps, and the sound just wasn't right. Finally I found a Solen 13uf and "the magic" was restored.
Replacing the inductor was even worse because you have to match the mh value and DCR. Placement within the cabinet is also critical relative to anything metallic.
Speaker building is "black magic engineering" and a lot of trial and error till you're happy.
http://baselaudiolab.com/ADVENT_LA_XO.html
http://www.theprojectasylum.com/ele...r/adventcrossover/adventcrossoverdiagram.html
Don't mess with the values or you'll be unhappy. My particular speakers use the .3mh inductor and a 13uf capacitor. I've tried 12uf and 15uf caps, and the sound just wasn't right. Finally I found a Solen 13uf and "the magic" was restored.
Replacing the inductor was even worse because you have to match the mh value and DCR. Placement within the cabinet is also critical relative to anything metallic.
Speaker building is "black magic engineering" and a lot of trial and error till you're happy.
Totally agree with heyraz and Pete B - - you gotta take a look inside to see what was originally installed - - - hey, it's just four (or better yet, eight) screws to remove!
The project asylum link noted in post 7 is a pretty good reference, but I think his choice of replacement capacitor was a very poor decision. You don't need to go overboard with so-called boutique caps, but this guy was the original owner and still didn't feel the need to purchase some modest film caps, instead replacing with NP electrolytics. More importantly, the original x-o called for 13uf caps, and the ones he installed (15uf) actually measured closer to 16uf, quite possibly affecting the speaker performance substantially.
The project asylum link noted in post 7 is a pretty good reference, but I think his choice of replacement capacitor was a very poor decision. You don't need to go overboard with so-called boutique caps, but this guy was the original owner and still didn't feel the need to purchase some modest film caps, instead replacing with NP electrolytics. More importantly, the original x-o called for 13uf caps, and the ones he installed (15uf) actually measured closer to 16uf, quite possibly affecting the speaker performance substantially.
OK, live and learn. I took the time at lunch to open one up, and I need the 13uf, so I compiled some 2 pc units which total 13 from PE. I also have 2 new resisters as they're pretty cheap. Didn't find 13uf so I'll use the sum method. But a set of PE 100v for 2 pieces cost $1.19 and for Daytons 250v costs about $5.80, much as I like Daytons I'm not sure I'll hear any difference spending about $9 more for a pair of speakers I haven't even heard yet??
Now the Inductors? Not sure if they even need replacing, because I don't know what they do, but I did find some 20g Jantzen units (.30 x .36) instead of .3 x .37 as specified.
I'll order up some stuff on Wed, then order a re-foam set from Cobb.
Now the Inductors? Not sure if they even need replacing, because I don't know what they do, but I did find some 20g Jantzen units (.30 x .36) instead of .3 x .37 as specified.
I'll order up some stuff on Wed, then order a re-foam set from Cobb.
Partsconnexion has the Solen 13uf capacitor: (solen 62386)
http://www.partsconnexion.com/capacitor_film_solen_pb.html
Madisound has the inductors you want:
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/air-core-20-awg/madisound-0.3-mh-20-awg-air-core-inductor/
Parts Express has the non inductive wirewound resistors you want (1.0 ohm and 1.5 ohm)
http://www.parts-express.com/mills-1-ohm-12w-non-inductive-resistor--005-1
http://www.parts-express.com/mills-15-ohm-12w-non-inductive-resistor--005-1.5
Trust me on this...I've got a box of expensive capacitors 12uf and 15uf and 1uf
I've added 1uf to 12uf
I spent 5 times the amount on "better inductors"
And none of the "expensive" parts sounded as good as the list above. In fact, things sounded horrible, like there was a hole in the middle of the sound. It was a compromise at best, and a complete failure at worst when compared to another set of unmodified NLA's that I picked up for my son.
The inductor was the worst experience ever-you have to match the mh AND the DCR for it to work right. And, you need to place it up on it's rim so the coil is oriented 90 degrees from the woofer's voice coil. And, it has to be fairly close to the crossover board-I hot glued mine to the side wall and ran short 18g wires over to the switch.
Be forewarned-the new caps will take a few days to break in. It will sound so bad you will hate me and think I must be deaf. The caps will break in, smooth out, and you'll hear depth in the music that you never thought the Advents were capable of. I'm enjoying them again.
Speaker building is like Voodoo Black Magic. Inductors are the worst to mess with because you need to match mh and DCR. I've got some real nice ones by ERSE in my parts box that seriously ruined the sound because the DCR was different than the original spec. The woofers just boomed all over the place and clouded the music. The original Advent inductors did a much better job.
I have been through so many different capacitors that my parts box is overflowing. The crossover just does not sound right unless you get it right, and I think the Advent Engineers spent a lot of time tuning the sound.
From what I've read, they even changed the woofer design (not just the Masonite ring), which changed the crossover parameters. So stick with the values you have.
I never say "my way is the only way", but seriously...on this one-save yourself some heartache and money. If you want to buy any of the parts I used in my failed attempts...you'll be doing me a favor because they just don't sound as good as the parts list above.
It took me years to find those 13uf caps, and then one day I stumbled across them. Well worth the wait. Trust me.
Rich
http://www.partsconnexion.com/capacitor_film_solen_pb.html
Madisound has the inductors you want:
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/air-core-20-awg/madisound-0.3-mh-20-awg-air-core-inductor/
Parts Express has the non inductive wirewound resistors you want (1.0 ohm and 1.5 ohm)
http://www.parts-express.com/mills-1-ohm-12w-non-inductive-resistor--005-1
http://www.parts-express.com/mills-15-ohm-12w-non-inductive-resistor--005-1.5
Trust me on this...I've got a box of expensive capacitors 12uf and 15uf and 1uf
I've added 1uf to 12uf
I spent 5 times the amount on "better inductors"
And none of the "expensive" parts sounded as good as the list above. In fact, things sounded horrible, like there was a hole in the middle of the sound. It was a compromise at best, and a complete failure at worst when compared to another set of unmodified NLA's that I picked up for my son.
The inductor was the worst experience ever-you have to match the mh AND the DCR for it to work right. And, you need to place it up on it's rim so the coil is oriented 90 degrees from the woofer's voice coil. And, it has to be fairly close to the crossover board-I hot glued mine to the side wall and ran short 18g wires over to the switch.
Be forewarned-the new caps will take a few days to break in. It will sound so bad you will hate me and think I must be deaf. The caps will break in, smooth out, and you'll hear depth in the music that you never thought the Advents were capable of. I'm enjoying them again.
Speaker building is like Voodoo Black Magic. Inductors are the worst to mess with because you need to match mh and DCR. I've got some real nice ones by ERSE in my parts box that seriously ruined the sound because the DCR was different than the original spec. The woofers just boomed all over the place and clouded the music. The original Advent inductors did a much better job.
I have been through so many different capacitors that my parts box is overflowing. The crossover just does not sound right unless you get it right, and I think the Advent Engineers spent a lot of time tuning the sound.
From what I've read, they even changed the woofer design (not just the Masonite ring), which changed the crossover parameters. So stick with the values you have.
I never say "my way is the only way", but seriously...on this one-save yourself some heartache and money. If you want to buy any of the parts I used in my failed attempts...you'll be doing me a favor because they just don't sound as good as the parts list above.
It took me years to find those 13uf caps, and then one day I stumbled across them. Well worth the wait. Trust me.
Rich
I am the author of this page:
http://baselaudiolab.com/ADVENT_LA_XO.html
And I have to say that this is not black magic.
There is no need to replace the inductor unless you want to go all out
on this system. Listen to it first then decide.
Any combination of decent NPEs or film capacitors that gets you 13uF will work fine. This is also my work here:
http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=2790
The thread is out of order as a result of an upgrade of the forum software at that site.
http://baselaudiolab.com/ADVENT_LA_XO.html
And I have to say that this is not black magic.
There is no need to replace the inductor unless you want to go all out
on this system. Listen to it first then decide.
Any combination of decent NPEs or film capacitors that gets you 13uF will work fine. This is also my work here:
http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=2790
The thread is out of order as a result of an upgrade of the forum software at that site.
spkrdtr
spkrfixer
Yes, the model appears to be The new Large Advent as noted, however, the speaker label only says "The Advent Loudspeaker". In the explanation below the new advent, it talks about the red and green tweeters. I have the green, but I also have the metal frame woofers.
OK, I'll pull one and mess up another section of the shop until I get back to them
To me, Advent's multi-pronged approach to speaker ID was faulty. They even assigned model numbers in addition to names to add to the confusion.
Well, I spent some time in the wee hours reading the Advent pages and am a little more hyped up than I was before about these NLAs. I happen to like KLH and have 17s and sixes and 32s, so I wanted to see what all the hype is about.
One of the interesting things I picked up is that the drivers are the same as my set of Advent /1 speakers which I refoamed a year ago and are used somewhat regulary in my shop, so I can switch the woofers for a quik check.
I can also say I didn't like the /1 at all after recapping, a tad bright but way too harsh in the upper mids, but they settled down and all in all I like them.
One of the interesting things I picked up is that the drivers are the same as my set of Advent /1 speakers which I refoamed a year ago and are used somewhat regulary in my shop, so I can switch the woofers for a quik check.
I can also say I didn't like the /1 at all after recapping, a tad bright but way too harsh in the upper mids, but they settled down and all in all I like them.
Pete,
First of all, I want to thank you for your original work with the various Advent Speakers. As far as I'm concerned, you pretty much wrote the book.
That being said, subjectively I stand by everything I previously wrote. Maybe it's the way my amp (Fisher SA300B w/EL34 tubes) interacts with the speakers, the damping factor, my room, or whatever other factors are in play, but I really feel that a single, dead on value 13uf capacitor yields the best sound for that speaker to my ears. Admittedly, purely my subjective opinion, but I have an unmolested pair of the same speakers as a reference, and I could hear the difference with all of the other combinations mentioned.
Even with the NPE caps in the unmolested pair, they had a better overall balance to my ears, although a little too grainy and unclear. That lack of clarity is what drove me to replace the NPE capacitors in the first place, and using ANY value other than a single 13uf capacitor had a different overall quality that "killed the magic" for me.
I even tried a matched set of 13uf 100V oil caps (in the can) that came out of a pair of Klipsch speakers, and thought the sound was dull and muffled.
In the end, I felt the Solen 13uf caps from Parts Connexion yielded the clearest image and best balance in my speakers.
Regarding the inductor, I really do feel that my final decision to replace the original inductor resulted in a clearer sound, especially at higher volumes. Replacing the inductor however proved to be a little more complicated than replacing the capacitor. My "black magic voodoo" comment was my way of expressing how complicated I found the process to be. While I can appreciate yet not fully understanding the math and science involved in selecting the correct inductor, there were other factors that I realized were also in play, physical placement near other magnetic fields and the metallic frame of the speaker itself to name but a few. In the end, it seemed as though I might need to swap different inductors in before I found the right one. Hence my frustration.
I think speaker building is an art form, requiring a lot of smarts as well as trial and error. Voodoo and Black Magic to this primitive.
First of all, I want to thank you for your original work with the various Advent Speakers. As far as I'm concerned, you pretty much wrote the book.
That being said, subjectively I stand by everything I previously wrote. Maybe it's the way my amp (Fisher SA300B w/EL34 tubes) interacts with the speakers, the damping factor, my room, or whatever other factors are in play, but I really feel that a single, dead on value 13uf capacitor yields the best sound for that speaker to my ears. Admittedly, purely my subjective opinion, but I have an unmolested pair of the same speakers as a reference, and I could hear the difference with all of the other combinations mentioned.
Even with the NPE caps in the unmolested pair, they had a better overall balance to my ears, although a little too grainy and unclear. That lack of clarity is what drove me to replace the NPE capacitors in the first place, and using ANY value other than a single 13uf capacitor had a different overall quality that "killed the magic" for me.
I even tried a matched set of 13uf 100V oil caps (in the can) that came out of a pair of Klipsch speakers, and thought the sound was dull and muffled.
In the end, I felt the Solen 13uf caps from Parts Connexion yielded the clearest image and best balance in my speakers.
Regarding the inductor, I really do feel that my final decision to replace the original inductor resulted in a clearer sound, especially at higher volumes. Replacing the inductor however proved to be a little more complicated than replacing the capacitor. My "black magic voodoo" comment was my way of expressing how complicated I found the process to be. While I can appreciate yet not fully understanding the math and science involved in selecting the correct inductor, there were other factors that I realized were also in play, physical placement near other magnetic fields and the metallic frame of the speaker itself to name but a few. In the end, it seemed as though I might need to swap different inductors in before I found the right one. Hence my frustration.
I think speaker building is an art form, requiring a lot of smarts as well as trial and error. Voodoo and Black Magic to this primitive.
Based on the fact I have the full metal frame and yes they are green so they are NLAs. Until I read the Advent model thread I didn't know they stopped green and went red! I have a "Smaller Advent" green tweet which I'm thinking can be a backup, but I need to check the numbers.
Anyway, the PE order has shipped, and I just need to decide whether to refoam now, or rob my /1 woofers.
Anyway, the PE order has shipped, and I just need to decide whether to refoam now, or rob my /1 woofers.
I thought they started out red, well actually they started out natural paper color and they determined through testing that they needed a sealer for the paper. Kloss was working on his projection TV and had some red bulb dye on his desk that he handed to the person working on the tweeters - it worked and they kept it that way. I thought the green was at first to indicate the smaller magnet version for the Smaller Advent and perhaps later they just used either color. I have never even held a green one so this is just what I've read over the years.
When I was a kid and my parents got Advents I looked at the red tweeters and thought it might be some new space age material, haha, wishful thinking!
Last edited:
Doug G.
Lunatic Member
Yes, the original Advent tweeters with the masonite square on them were originally natural colored, as you said pete, and then they dyed them orange/red soon after release. I think it was to improve dispersion.
Since the green ones appeared with the Smaller Advent, I'm sure they used that color for quick ID of the smaller magnet version used on the Smaller Advent.
When they decided to use the same tweeters in both versions of speaker (original and smaller Advents), sometime in 1975, they used up the green cones and then used red again after that until the end of production of the original line. That's why there are examples of the original (large) Advents with green cone tweeters from 1975. I have a pair. They have the larger magnets.
It's just that I would never have expected to see New Advent tweeters with green cones. Jim, are the tweeters in yours the flush-mounted ones without the masonite square on them?
If they are, maybe Advent ran out of red dye one day and switched to green?
Doug
Since the green ones appeared with the Smaller Advent, I'm sure they used that color for quick ID of the smaller magnet version used on the Smaller Advent.
When they decided to use the same tweeters in both versions of speaker (original and smaller Advents), sometime in 1975, they used up the green cones and then used red again after that until the end of production of the original line. That's why there are examples of the original (large) Advents with green cone tweeters from 1975. I have a pair. They have the larger magnets.
It's just that I would never have expected to see New Advent tweeters with green cones. Jim, are the tweeters in yours the flush-mounted ones without the masonite square on them?
If they are, maybe Advent ran out of red dye one day and switched to green?
Doug
Doug G.
Lunatic Member
Also, we have to remember the biggest distinction, appearance-wise, between the original Advent tweeter and the New Advent tweeter is that the originals had the masonite square with the cone about 1/2" forward of the metal mounting plate. The cone is mounted to the masonite square. The screen is whole without any cutouts.
The New Advent tweeter has the cone flush-mounted right even with the metal mounting plate (no masonite square) and the screen has cutouts for the wires.
If the cabinet is the rounded-front version (if walnut) and it has a masonite square tweeter, that means somebody stuck the earlier version of the tweeter in there.
Doug
The New Advent tweeter has the cone flush-mounted right even with the metal mounting plate (no masonite square) and the screen has cutouts for the wires.
If the cabinet is the rounded-front version (if walnut) and it has a masonite square tweeter, that means somebody stuck the earlier version of the tweeter in there.
Doug
Last edited:
