Line conditioners ?

[Hyperion]

At times it hardly seems fitting to bemoan the lack of "rare" output devices which can plague any resto job, while not accepting that these devices may well be worth the time and trouble just to save a headache down the road. JMHO. :thmbsp:

Quite so, you have to wonder what percentage (compared to other reasons) of output devices are taken out by mains disturbances either directly, or by cascade effect from earlier amp stages - someone who has extensive experience of amp repairs could probably give a view on this. It certainly sounds like for some of you US guys, these things a pretty much a necessity ref: BrocLuno's post above. In the UK at least, we don't seem to have the kind of severe mains disturbances he mentions. The loss of my wireless router (see my earlier post) was a rarity - it's the first time I can remember losing anything other than maybe a blown fuse - BTW I make sure all my appliances have the correct fuse rating.

John

 

[whoaru99]

Oh, I dunno...I think there is a lot of distance between the worst cases that we typically hear about and the normal situation for most people that we usually don't hear about.

 

[d3imlay]

I've got a 2kW Sola I'm planning to mount outside the house to power my recording studio (under construction). Agree with the issues of current (although that's resonant current, not indicative of power consumption), heat & noise, but not the waveform issue. This from wikipedia: <Older designs of ferroresonant transformers had an output with high harmonic content, leading to a distorted output waveform. Modern devices are used to construct a perfect sinewave>.

Well, nothing's perfect, but 3% max. harmonic (of 60Hz) distortion, should be easily filtered by most any gear's power supply. With its inherent i/o isolation and transient suppression, it seems like a really nice way to go if one's local voltage steps occasionally, as mine does. (Especially for $50 -- surplus!) Anybody got good experience with these things?

The output of a ferro more closely represents a square wave than a sine wave. When a harmonic neutraizing winding is added the output is a very respectable sine wave. If someone wants to know more PM me.

 

[Edriz]

Everythime I turn my ceiling fan on or off, I get a "popping" sound from my speakers. Would a surge protector help that? If so, what would you suggest? If not, what else should I do?

Everytime it happens it make me cringe in fear of something worse happening.

 

[whoaru99]

I suggest you first try plugging your gear into a different electrical circuit. May not be possible...

A surge protector isn't a noise filter, although some devices incorporate both elements. Whether or not it will fix your problem, I dunno.

Is it a big enough deal to actually fix...meaning, how often, really, do you turn the ceiling fan on or off while listening to your system?

I hear guys saying stuff like "my system makes a little noise when I run the vacuum". I say big deal...critical listening and running the vacuum cleaner are not simultaneous tasks at my house.

 

[Edriz]

I suggest you first try plugging your gear into a different electrical circuit. May not be possible...

A surge protector isn't a noise filter, although some devices incorporate both elements. Whether or not it will fix your problem, I dunno.

Is it a big enough deal to actually fix...meaning, how often, really, do you turn the ceiling fan on or off while listening to your system?

I hear guys saying stuff like "my system makes a little noise when I run the vacuum". I say big deal...critical listening and running the vacuum cleaner are not simultaneous tasks at my house.

The entire Living room is on the same circuit. I have a propane fireplace that is thermostatically controlled. When the fireplace comes on, I turn the ceiling fan on. When the fireplace goes off, I turn the fan off. It helps push the heat down and spread it evenly to the other areas of the house.

This time of year it's on and off quite often. During the day when I'm the only one home, the stereo is on all day long

 

[d3imlay]

A .01uf ceramic disk cap rated for !kv across the switch may do the job. Radio Shack used to sell them.

 

[Edriz]

A .01uf ceramic disk cap rated for !kv across the switch may do the job. Radio Shack used to sell them.

Aw, come on, gimme a break here, I'm just a lowle welder here, In english please. Is this something easy to install?

 

[Edriz]

I suggest you first try plugging your gear into a different electrical circuit. May not be possible...

A surge protector isn't a noise filter, although some devices incorporate both elements. Whether or not it will fix your problem, I dunno.

Is it a big enough deal to actually fix...meaning, how often, really, do you turn the ceiling fan on or off while listening to your system?

I hear guys saying stuff like "my system makes a little noise when I run the vacuum". I say big deal...critical listening and running the vacuum cleaner are not simultaneous tasks at my house.

I really don't spend 100% of my time critically listening to anything. I spend 95% 0f my time listening for pure enjoyment. Maybe 5 % of the time for what I would call "critical" listening. Anyone spending any more then that is missing the whole point of the enjoyment of the music

Why be so critical of every little nuscince. Why not just sit back and enjoy what you have spent so much on and get the best out of it. That is what we are striving for isn't it?

My concern with my post was to eliminate the pop as to not cause damage to what I have spent my hard earned dollars on, nothing else.

 

[d3imlay]

Aw, come on, gimme a break here, I'm just a lowle welder here, In english please. Is this something easy to install?

It's easy to do when we speak the same language. If my earlier post sounded like Greek then it probably shouldn't be tried.

 

[Edriz]

It's easy to do when we speak the same language. If my earlier post sounded like Greek then it probably shouldn't be tried.

I just don't know much about electrical stuff. I'll copy your post and ask my brother-in-law. He knows more about that sort of thing. Maybe he can pick up what I need and do the installation.

Since all my vintage gear doesn't have those polorized plugs or any ground type plugs, would you also recommend plugging everything in to one of those surge protection extension plugs with the protection switch things? I use one of them on the computers.

 

[BrocLuno]

Most of your gear has polarized plugs, you just don't see it. Look closely at the line cord from each piece. One side of the lead wire will have little ridges or a single ridge or strip. That's the neutral side of that piece. Plug it in with the stripe/rib into the biggest side of the wall socket. Put the plain side into the shorter side of the wall socket or power strip, what have you.

 

[MJSNet]

Well, I stumbled here looking for a simple answer as to whether or not my vintage and current audio gear should be on a UPS, surge suppressor, line conditioner, or whatever, or if it shouldn't. I have frequent power outages, and a computer is part of my gear plugged into the same circuit. All this talk has my head spinning. Since there seems to be a lot of opinions as to whether or not it helps, my question is would any of them hurt?

 

[RickB]

Well, I stumbled here looking for a simple answer as to whether or not my vintage and current audio gear should be on a UPS, surge suppressor, line conditioner, or whatever, or if it shouldn't. I have frequent power outages, and a computer is part of my gear plugged into the same circuit. All this talk has my head spinning. Since there seems to be a lot of opinions as to whether or not it helps, my question is would any of them hurt?

If your computer is not hooked up to your stereo it should be on another circuit. It should be plugged into a line conditioner/surge suppressor, not so much to eliminate noise getting into the computer (even though that helps, too) but to prevent it from getting out of the computer and getting into the AC line, and to protect it from the power interruptions...so, an UPS is probably the correct device to have the computer plugged into.

The other systems should use good quality conditioners for the front end components, and amps can or not depending on their current demands...sometimes conditioners can seem to take away dynamic impact from amplifiers if the conditioner isn't capable of instantaneous high current deliver for higher powered amplifiers, other times it's not noticeable...you have to approach it on a case by case basis...

In the high end world power conditioners each have their own sonic signature, and like power cords, are another way of tuning the subtleties of a system...an Audience does not sound like a PSAudio, which doesn't sound like a Shunyata, which doesn't sound like a Running Springs Audio, which doesn't sound like a Richard Gray....etc...it's basically a try it for yourself situation...

Cheap power conditioners, though, can quite frequently do nothing, or even mess up the sound, when compared to better devices...I have found that TrippLite Isobar Ultras are great for computers and other noisy electronics but not so good for audio in sonic comparisons that I have done.

I personally have built my own power conditioners and combined with a huge 20 amp isolation transformer help assure that my components get cleaner power....

Some pieces of my gear, though, inject their own noise back into the AC line, like my Adcom GFA-555II, and I have individual filter modules that I built just for them...

How did I find out about the noise from the Adcom? I used an Audio Prism line noise sniffer. This unit plugs into your AC line and "hears" the noise that's on the line. At it's essence is a little radio receiver in a box with a volume control and a speaker...but it clearly showed that when the Adcom was plugged in that there was a huge amount of noise dumped back onto the AC line...

I'll go into more details only if asked about the tests I did with it, and with a high-end communications receiver that really enlightened me about power line noise effects...and this was several years ago, too.

So, it's not just the quality of the power coming in that matters but also the items in your stereo and your home that also contribute to line noise pollution...

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