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M91ED or M97XE

I purchased a Shure M91ED from a seller on Ebay which looks and works great. After reading this thread I wanted to compare it to my other cartridges. It arrived today so I cleaned and mounted it.

My test system has a Technics SL-1650 and a Technics SL-5350 both connected to my Pioneer SX-1050 which has two phono inputs and sounds great with the JBL-100 speakers. I have two copies of the record store day release of Paul Simon's There Goes Rhymin' Simon. The records are numbered and I have two low numbered pressings which sound fantastic.

When comparing cartridges, I start both records and get them playing the exact same spot so I can instantly switch between cartridges and compare the differences. I am careful to adjust the volume each time I switch so that one doesn't sound louder and therefore better than the other.

First I'm curious of what others here think of testing this way. I compared the Shure M91ED against the Shure M97xe which I got in December and haven't used much. The 91 has a little more bass than the 91 but the sound from the 97 was more detailed. I could hear the instruments just a little bit better on the 97. I also have a Shure V15 vmr with original stylus that's been in use for about 9 months, an Audio Technica AT13 with a 13EaX stylus that is new, bought about 6 months ago, an Signet TK7E. I compared the 91 against all of these and noticed the same slight lack of detail but better bass.

When I've compared the other cartridges to each other, they sound very similar and I would not be able to say which one sounds the best with the exception of the Shure V15vmr.

Any thoughts on this?
 
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jeffpaletz said:
I purchased a Shure M91ED from a seller on Ebay which looks and works great. After reading this thread I wanted to compare it to my other cartridges. It arrived today so I cleaned and mounted it.

My test system has a Technics SL-1650 and a Technics SL-5350 both connected to my Pioneer SX-1050 which has two phono inputs and sounds great with the JBL-100 speakers. I have two copies of the record store day release of Paul Simon's There Goes Rhymin' Simon. The records are numbered and I have two low numbered pressings which sound fantastic.

When comparing cartridges, I start both records and get them playing the exact same spot so I can instantly switch between cartridges and compare the differences. I am careful to adjust the volume each time I switch so that one doesn't sound louder and therefore better than the other.

First I'm curious of what others here think of testing this way. I compared the Shure M91ED against the Shure M97xe which I got in December and haven't used much. The 91 has a little more bass than the 91 but the sound from the 97 was more detailed. I could hear the instruments just a little bit better on the 97. I also have a Shure V15 vmr with original stylus that's been in use for about 9 months, an Audio Technica AT13 with a 13EaX stylus that is new, bought about 6 months ago, an Signet TK7E. I compared the 91 against all of these and noticed the same slight lack of detail but better bass.

When I've compared the other cartridges to each other, they sound very similar and I would not be able to say which one sounds the best with the exception of the Shure V15vmr.

Any thoughts on this?
Click to expand...

The 97 just needs some wear in time. That bottom will show up, and the detail stays intact. :)
 
Just from memory, didn't the M91 need 400 to 500pf? and the M97 is best at 275pf...

So it is very possible that those who prefer the M91 have higher C setups than those that prefer the M97....

Worth checking your capacitance folks - often the cartridge is blamed when in fact the setup is wrong for it...

Catman after further experimentation ended up going back to 47k, but only after getting his capacitance down to the right level - it had been higher before...

With the higher capacitance the resistive load of 62k works well - but it does result in a slight midrange suck out.
 
dlaloum said:
Just from memory, didn't the M91 need 400 to 500pf? and the M97 is best at 275pf...

So it is very possible that those who prefer the M91 have higher C setups than those that prefer the M97....

Worth checking your capacitance folks - often the cartridge is blamed when in fact the setup is wrong for it...

Catman after further experimentation ended up going back to 47k, but only after getting his capacitance down to the right level - it had been higher before...

With the higher capacitance the resistive load of 62k works well - but it does result in a slight midrange suck out.
Click to expand...

How do you determine the capacitance of the system or the resistance? When you have receivers with built in phono preamps, how to you change the capacitance or resistance? Do you change it by doing something to the preamp or something to the turntable cables or??

When these cartridges were made most people didn't know about the effect of capacitance or how to change it. What capacitance is the M91 and the M97 expecting or designed for to provide the sound it was designed to produce?
 
I think that capacitance meter is intended to be representative. There are a number of different ones available. I have two. One is on an Extech HVAC DMM and the other is on another brand DMM. Both work well.

It is possible to measure the capacitance in the leads and tonearm but the capacitance in the preamp can be determined by reading the schematic or if the manufacturer specifies in the owners manual. The capacitance will be the total of the two (leads and preamp).

To decrease the capacitance or increase the resistance in a preamp involves opening it and knowing something about soldering and the design of input circuitry.
 
Here's the one I use. It's currently available on eBay for $20 shipped from China. It measures capacitance down to a few picoFarads (not just nanoFarads). It also tests inductance (good for phono cartridges) at 800Hz, close to the 1000Hz standard, and goes down to the tens of milliHenries necessary for MM cartridges.
LCR meter OYM6243L .jpg
 
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beatcomber said:
I listen to a LOT of jazz, and the M91ED reproduces horns (especially tenor sax) with a nice rich fullness that I totally dig. It sounds to me like a synergy issue, or maybe your speakers need the crossovers recapped.
Click to expand...

Was thinking about this thread today and I just wanted to update my own experience with the M91ED. Since I wrote my original comments, I have gotten rid of the Advents and am playing my Fisher 800B through my one Wharfedale W60 and an XAM 3E (until I get another W60). I also lowered the VTF a while back, and have had my 800B recapped. And the issues I was having earlier with the M91 are gone. The sound is much more open on top, and that pinched kinda sound is gone. The cart also perhaps could have broken in some, along with the caps on my Fisher. The sound coming out of the W60 is wide open and really musical.
 
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