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Mac vs the Japanese

All this talk and not a single Nude of Mac....I guess you should only look at them from the outside.
 
I found this, out of a MC 2105. not the prettiest of pictures.

Those bubbled up traces are enough to scare the crap out of more than a few people.
 

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A .... Well thats a start..... :) I don't think the waviness on the runs is a real issue...that is just a lot of solder on the runs...

Funny thing I was searching on google and could not find any Mac Nudes.... Found a lot for other brands. I have seen the inside of a few...and was impressed, but didn't really study them for things like cap types, wire gauges and on and on... I know they do a good job...just odd how few nudes there are....

Maybe Mac owners don't have a screw driver? :twak:

jk
 
I don't have a MA-6100 yet but I do believe my Japanese made 1975 Marantz 4140 (70 wpc in 2-channel) will give it a good run for it's money. And it's much prettier. :D

marantzs.jpg
 
Elroy said:
2uberoller
Of course if you GAVE it to me, but the point I was trying to make with the analogy wasn't what I would prefer if it was GIVEN to me or even what I would buy if money was no object. The point was that in many instances (not always) you can indeed get gear that performs to %95 (and even %99) of the over priced premium name brand gear at a fraction of that price. And isn't that what we are all trying to do- get the BEST gear we can afford?

Now to thread topic: "Mac vs. Japanese". I personally think as I have mentioned previously that McIntosh enjoys a better reputation than it really deserves. Please hear me, I am not saying that they don't make excellent gear, I just don't think it deserves the "Rolls Royce" like status people have given it. I have come to this PERSONAL conclusion based on listening to a LOT of high end gear including McIntosh and from conversations with very reputable vintage techs. Futhermore, I often hear Accuphase referred to as the "Japanese McIntosh" This was a phrase coined in the 70s and was appropriate at Accuphase’s inception in the 70s- but in the 80s Accuphase left McIntosh way behind with their cutting edge innovation, world class reference engineering and astounding build and parts quality. I believe there are several factors that contribute to this "exaggerated reputation". For 1 as several have mentioned there is the whole “Made in America” thing and this is attractive to many Americans for obvious reasons but also even in for example Japan, it is very “chic” to be the proud owner of a such a slice if Americana as a McIntosh system. I also remember when I was a teenager in the late 70s the status McIntosh held and how it was the Holy Grail and the unobtainable dream for poor schleps like me and my friends in those days. I think there were a lot of frustrated teenagers like me and now we are all 40 something and able to finally realize that once “unobtainable dream”. McIntosh enjoys this kind of history and reputation probably more than any other brand I know of (interestingly, very similar to Harley Davidson)- but for me when put to the test I just realized McIntosh doesn’t measure up to their reputation.
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You are entitled to your opinion. That is why we have different flavors of ice cream. However, before you say Mcintosh's reputation is exagerated, why not take home a system as a demo and do a comparison to what every you have.
 
...before you say Mcintosh's reputation is exagerated, why not take home a system as a demo and do a comparison to what every you have.
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If you read my posts you will see that I did. Remember the original question posed was a call for opnions of how McIntosh compares to Japanese and my post did just that. It was not meant to be taken personally or to offend anyone. I just posted what I believe and WHY. Hey if you are a McIntosh fan great, I am not trying to dissuade you. It's the bystander looking at it objectively from the outside I was addressing my comments to. It appears by now we are kicking a dead cow however.
 
I suspect that the originator of this thread did not pose the question only to hear McIntosh fans sing its praises and probably expected to hear comments from both sides of the opinion fence- right? :dunno:
 
Beautiful!

onepixel said:
I don't have a MA-6100 yet but I do believe my Japanese made 1975 Marantz 4140 (70 wpc in 2-channel) will give it a good run for it's money. And it's much prettier. :D

marantzs.jpg
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Boy are these sweet...I'm pretty much a MAC man these days, but I started out with Marantz in the early seventies and so I'm always moved by a sight like this. I still aspire to one day set up a beatiful vintage Marantz system...trouble is, even if I had the funds, with the four systems I already have, I don't have the room! :no: :tears:

Pete
 
Elroy said:
I suspect that the originator of this thread did not pose the question only to hear McIntosh fans sing its praises and probably expected to hear comments from both sides of the opinion fence- right? :dunno:
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And they just will not share any nudes.... Must be ashamed....
 
Elroy said:
I suspect that the originator of this thread did not pose the question only to hear McIntosh fans sing its praises and probably expected to hear comments from both sides of the opinion fence- right? :dunno:
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I own plenty of both but this is not a thread I care to discuss the subject in. I rather lurk and snicker. :music:


Carl
 
i can put some wood on this fire also. I grew up with both mcintosh and onkeyo, (my father was big in this stuff, thus it past to me, but i can remember he came home with a onkey grand integra 508 amp ( with the two meters that go from orange to green, I believe when he got it it was not supose to be sold in the united states, i cant remember its been to long, and he is gone so i can ask him. he also had one of the first yamaha surround sound set ups, this had two pieces and a seprt amp. with a remote that can make over 200 differnt delays and halls, live rock shows and so on. I still have all th is gear in mint condit, but its at my mothers. The point im trying to make, ( i know i took the long way around the barn here) is we also have the mc2500 now this piece out shines them all, though the onkeyo 508 with its preamp and tuner( i will get the modl number so i can post it) sound awsome today, but the mcintosh has a fuller sound. plus you can still get three thousand or so for the mc2500 where the onkeyo 508 i dont even know, maybe 500 or so. I really think mcintosh last longer at or close to spec, then other gear. Also early japan gear was not as realiable as it is today i believe. I am just not a big fan of sony or yamha for upper high end gear, due to they have way to many products and they are just mass produce. now i am not saying mcintosh is the best, I would have a hard time not taking a a accuphase amp over a mcintosh if someone gave me it for the same price.
sorry for my long and some what of the topic post. sorry sorry lol
 
CarlV said:
I know what they look like. :smoke:



If you did a search you would find pictures too. :yes:


Carl
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I did search... Didn't find any Vintage SS Mac nudes that was impressive.... I am assuming there just isn't much posted.... Found some new stuff and some tubes.... But we are talking Vintage SS.... guess the owners are afraid to pop the covers....

Also at some point you would think that a product that is so well establish would be very easy to id the technical merits of the units... We seem to be well short of those details.... I think I was the only one to mention the Auto-former.....

This post has mainly been it about how it sounds great... But come on, some where there should be more merits than the pretty black glass....


jk
 
I'm not sure why but I just read every post in this thread. The only thing I got out of it was how cool OP's Marantz gear looks and how good his photography skills are. :thmbsp: Actually I read every post because I'm always thinking about buying some McIntosh gear. Maybe a trip to my local Mac dealer is in order for tomorrow afternoon.
 
And they just will not share any nudes.... Must be ashamed....
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Its probably more of an issue of enjoying them so much so that it's just not worth the effort to remove them from the rack and remove the covers!
 
Well, I'd love to post a nude of my 2100 just to silence the whining :D, but the damn thing weighs 65lbs, and is a chore just to unhook and move. I really should have took a pic when I first got it and had the bottom plate off for some dust bunny removal and new RCA's, its really something else inside compared to the newer jap and crown stuff I've had open. The pre I wont touch because its chery and under warranty. If it needs opened, Ryan at A.C. can do it. Actually, I think that is alot of the reason you dont see Mac nudies, at that price level, people would just as soon let the pros do the work.


Now as the the OP, Mac has its own sound, and thats for sure. I hear alot of 'all amps and preamps sound the same', and that is pure BS, do an A/B for yourself on speakers that can resolve at a halfway decent level (and vintage advents aint it), and you can and do hear both subtle and night and day differences. The Mac I currently own, compared to the jap stuff I've heard and owned, is laid back and smooth, and in my experience likes a borderline 'hot' source to sound its best. I can take turntable settings and cartridges that sound fantastic on the Mac, hook it up to my Denon 825, and have my ears bleed, or do it vice versa, and have dull sounding Mac. At the end of the day, its all about having a system that has synergy, and approaches the sound you like, and if you can get that sound with Mac, there is no better built or more importantly with regards to vintage, supported, gear in the world.
 
Elroy said:
Its probably more of an issue of enjoying them so much so that it's just not worth the effort to remove them from the rack and remove the covers!
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My mc252 weigh's 100 lbs. so it is literally a pain to move to take these pictures. In the end I agree it is about synergy. Good is what you like.
 
Ok... Seeing you guys are neither willing nor strong enough to lift your Mac ( nor have a screw driver :) )... Here's a nude of an 85 pound Marantz Model 500 ( there's 4 of those 21,000uf caps and more for total of 100,000uf ).... Vintage SS amp from 1974.....load invariant. How about some pics of a 65 pound 10b, talk about pure sex....

Price is no excuse not to take pic, the 500 & 10b is way up there in resale value.....and something on warranty still is not vintage... :)

Come on open the kimono...and lets see.

VCS42ORZMnTL1R12mL9eiZl5VxRNWayt0300.jpg
 
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