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Mach One 4024, 4024A, 4029 Information and Upgrades!

As I write this I'm listening to and "feeling" Peter Gabriel "So". Here's the thing, I'm upstairs, and the volume is running around 5-10 watts, so I'm not blaring this. In fact when I'm downstairs the volume is comfortable. A little loud for a normal conversation, but still possible to have a conversation without yelling. Only other speakers that have come close were my Mach Two's. As stated before, only mods so far are fresh caps and resistors, no changes in values.

With that in mind, I so look forward to any enhancements to be found by VL for the 4024a speakers. Should be most enjoyeable. I do know that everyone who has, at the very least, done the cap changes have been quite satisfied.
 
I totally agree Copa1934 - I have the same model Mach 1s with new caps and resistors, and the music jumps out at you even at reasonable volumes. They have plenty of impact, even though they arent the most efficient speakers out there. They do need power!!
 
Opening the partition under the mid horn will help its need for power. My machs are running very nice w/a mere 25 watt unit (STA-84). My normal listening levels seldom breech the 1 watt mark...and VL's low end improvements are oh so welcome.
 

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Updates

newguy1 said:
Any updates?
Click to expand...

Yes! I now have a complete set of 4024a drivers. I am doing all the testing on them! This way, I will know the difference and how the 4024a drivers compare to the 4029. The Tier 2 release, I hope, can contain all the mods for both models. Good news for you 4024a owners, right?? I will also post the measurements comparing each driver of both models! Hang in there. I have also been sick the last few weeks and have been on a ton of medicine and haven't got much done. I should be able to start posting my findings starting some time next week!:D
 
Definitely good news for us 4024a owners! I hope you feel better - take care of yourself.

Tiga

videolady201 said:
Yes! I now have a complete set of 4024a drivers. I am doing all the testing on them! This way, I will know the difference and how the 4024a drivers compare to the 4029. The Tier 2 release, I hope, can contain all the mods for both models. Good news for you 4024a owners, right?? I will also post the measurements comparing each driver of both models! Hang in there. I have also been sick the last few weeks and have been on a ton of medicine and haven't got much done. I should be able to start posting my findings starting some time next week!:D
Click to expand...
 
4024a vs 4029

As I started testing the Mach tweeters and midrange horn drivers, I found a number of things to report. I will post pictures and graphs later but wanted to let you know what I have found.

On the tweeters the 4024a model has a paper voice coil, the 4029 has an aluminum voice coil. The 4024a dome is mounted to a card board form and the 4029 is on a plastic form. I had stated before that you could add Ferro-Fluid to the 4024a and now that I know it has a paper/card board voice coil I no longer suggest adding any Ferro-Fluid. I believe it will attack the form and make it fail. The 4029 also measures around 1.2 ohms less which should give it a little more output which is much needed. Both units have alignment tabs to center the voice coil. I will test the SPL later and post the output of each unit. Both are very good build quality.

On the midrange units the 4024a also has a paper/card board voice coil and again the 4029 mid has an aluminum VC. The impedance of the 4024a and the 4029 match and the output of each should be the same. The 4029 has a self aligning dome assembly while the 4024a does not. This only matters as the unit is put together. Everything else is the same between the two.

One thing I saw on both tweeter & mid of the 4024a drivers is a very resonant impedance sweep due to the lack of Ferro-Fluid. It is certain that the 4029 drivers will handle much more power.

As I continue, I will update you and will start posting pictures and charts so you can see this for yourself! Woofers will be Next! :yes:
 
A friend has three pairs of the 4029's that he wants to get rid of so I decided to read this thread front to back.............. Looks like I might have a project in front of me. Next step is to see what he wants for them. Its great that there are people (VL.) with the knowledge, time, and interest to take on time consuming projects like this. Thanks for all of your effort.
The big question is, what am I going to do with three more pairs of speakers?
 
Kinda explains why I could not blow them, even purposely abusing them. The Horns never failed, nor have I read of any 4029 horns failing. Only on the 4024. RS did make a speaker that back then, and even now, that has its own very tough look. This we all know.

In hindsight it seems they could have made the box 3" deeper and really clean up the base as VL mod does. They could have tweaked out the crossover.

How about this thought. RS Mach One speaker designers (4024/4029) did play with bigger cabinets and smoother crossovers, but wanted it to sound as it does now for best reproduction of music back then, and of those who would buy them; what they listened to (Erik Clapton, Stones...). Now in 2010 they would have done things much different. But whats neat is the drivers are still able to handle the power requirements of today's digital material with ease. So it may be very unfair to knock the designers in anyway as it may have been how they wanted things. They did sell a lot and not many took them back, no?

So subjective sound qualities aside, the liquid cooled version 4029s, rated to handle the music output of any amp on the market of the day cleanly without breakup, distortion or damage - that design goal was largely achieved. Most under $260 speakers of the day were not robust, not at all. Most still used cone tweeters. The MachOnes (4029) had a 1" (tweeter) and a 1.5" (mid-range); both wound on aluminum forms, and liquid cooled. This had to drastically increase power handling and just as important power compression and a largish woofer coil for that type of money (not much ;) ) was a bargain for the day for many. Although not many blew the drivers in the 4024s and they could Rock loud!!! The fact they still are speaks for itself.
 
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On another note, pun intended... does anyone detest the hook up screws on the back of the Mach's as much as i do... they are great speakers, but those dam hook up terminals drive me crazy... and using the RCA jack, just seems wrong.. :) Any one mod these hookup terminal in any way? if so any Photos?

I have 4024As
 
Hookup Terminals

robmorin said:
On another note, pun intended... does anyone detest the hook up screws on the back of the Mach's as much as i do... they are great speakers, but those dam hook up terminals drive me crazy... and using the RCA jack, just seems wrong.. :) Any one mod these hookup terminal in any way? if so any Photos?

I have 4024As
Click to expand...

The 4029 model has spring loaded push terminals, much nicer! I see them on ebay from time to time. I would try and pick up a pair of these and they screw right in!!:yes:
 
I'm going to build my own cabinets (keeping my 4024a like they are for the moment) using 4029 drivers (or possibly just the woofers). Most of my design will be based on VL work.

As for the posts, screw terminals were around long before the spring jobs. There are banana posts that will likely screw in place of the terminal screws, unless they use metric threads (banana jacks), otherwise you'd have to do what I plan to do, which is make a new crossover "pad" that has banana jacks and updated electronics.
 
The RCA isn't all that bad, and not really sure why the bad rap (not referring to your post). Don't forget that all your "low level" inputs are RCA, where clean solid connections are of the uptmost importance. Not saying high level isn't important, just not impacted to the same "degree" as low level. If the contact is clean, and the gauge of wire used (RS actually sold 16ga hookup wires with RCA on one or both ends) the results should be equivalent to banana or any other push connect. Screw terminas will bite into the wire better than any other hookup. Not convenient, but how often to you change speakers? If often, then maybe consider a quality speaker switch instead.

Just a thought, not picking on anyone.
 
robmorin said:
On another note, pun intended... does anyone detest the hook up screws on the back of the Mach's as much as i do... they are great speakers, but those dam hook up terminals drive me crazy... and using the RCA jack, just seems wrong.. :) Any one mod these hookup terminal in any way? if so any Photos?

I have 4024As
Click to expand...

I haven't modded mine (I want to keep mine as original as I can), but I did use a fork connector on the wire. Works a lot better I find. Just a crimp on fork connector, you could get fancy and solder it in, but I don't think that's really necessary to be honest.
 
Ya true i guess i can use the fork/lug connector on the wire, and keep cabinet more original looking..

Thanks for the suggestion!

Have a good one!
 
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