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Mains cables...

CruzBay said:
Within one winter, the porch outlet started getting loose and sparky. I moved the heater (a relay click to 1500 watts, another to pure off, so not similar to an audio load, all on and all off only) to the bottom plug, where the next season I had the same problem. The outlet was being worn by continuous minor arcing.

Replaced the outlet with a good quality outlet, using the push-in (back-stab) method, not the screws- the backstab's failed. A friend admitted that the 'backstabs' are only good for about 8 amps. Good to know...

Ordered and installed Hospital grade outlets and didn't have ant more problems with them (admittedly, we moved out 2 years after.)

Basement is similar, I replaced every location we used the heater with HG outlets.
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FWIW, the 'back-stab' inputs on these HG outlets still use the side screws to tighten a clamp down - they are not a simple spring grab.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000LEZN5M/

Decent price, too.
 
30 years ago, yesterday, I purchased this house.
And in preparation for moving in about a month later, I knew that I would eventually have a lot of electronics connected so I went and screw secured every outlet in the house, after using a small flat blade screwdriver to release the sometimes drywall mud/spackling/paint coated stripped copper wire ends that I had to Scotch pad clean before properly clockwise securing around the outlet`s screws and tightening down the screws.

A time consuming pain in the ass, especially with the use of only my right hand, but worth it, as it gave me piece of mind that there wouldn`t be any high resistance "hot speed wired connections" when powering any medium ~high power electrical devices in any outlet no matter where the outlet was in the circuit string.

And as my main sound system grew, I had 10ga. dedicated 20 amp circuits installed, and of course, outlet screw secured, no electrical issues, save for lower summer time mains voltage for these 30 years..
 
Bill Ferris said:
Why no love for the Tripp Lite 20 amp regulator/conditioner/surge/spike combo power units E-Stat ? They use 12ga windings on the triac, or relay switched autoformer taps.
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You won't find any manufacturer of a high powered amplifier who recommends using one. If you check your McIntosh manual, you'll find they want it plugged directly to the outlet. They work fine for everything else. Just my opinion.

DaveVoorhis said:
It's a preamplifier, so the filter capacitor only really needs to eliminate supply hum. It takes very little reserve capacity to drive a relatively high-impedance load with a roughly maximum 2 volt peak-to-peak swing at low current.
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If you're not concerned with the highest levels of performance, that's fine.

My runt-of-the-litter Audio Research SP20 has a 38 joule power supply, while the REF10 has 300 (click link for pic). Note that line stage uses four separate power supplies down to the transformers. The solid state Pass Labs Xs preamp uses more than 100,000 uF in each of its dual mono power supplies.

In my experience, stiffer power supplies improve transparency and dynamics. Everything is relative, Dave. ;)
 
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loopstick said:
Vinegar on french fries. Oh Canada !!!
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Vinegar on french fries is GREAT.

There's a place on the boardwalk in Ocean City MD named Thrashers that has been selling their delicious home-cut french fries for about ninety years. Strictly vinegar, ketchup is not allowed within 50 ft. of their counters.

Visit the place during the summer, especially weekends, and the crowd will be lined up six deep.

https://thrashersfries.com/ocean-city-md-french-fries
 
My TVC preamp does not have a power supply. Dynamics do not suffer, in fact they are superb. Of course, some equate great dynamic range with maximum loudness, which is nutty to me. It is a matter of quality, not quantity, and micro-dynamics are where it's at.
 
E-Stat said:
If you're not concerned with the highest levels of performance, that's fine.

My runt-of-the-litter Audio Research SP20 has a 38 joule power supply, while the REF10 has 300 (click link for pic). Note that line stage uses four separate power supplies down to the transformers. The solid state Pass Labs Xs preamp uses more than 100,000 uF in each of its dual mono power supplies.
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Bigger caps in a preamp are about reducing hum rather than storing joules of energy for transient response. The bigger the caps the lower the ripple, but they require more energy to charge them initially, which requires a bigger transformer and rectifiers or other approaches that can handle charging big caps. The result is a beefier power supply; not because more current is needed, but because lower hum is needed.
 
E-Stat said:
You won't find any manufacturer of a high powered amplifier who recommends using one. If you check your McIntosh manual, you'll find they want it plugged directly to the outlet.
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I know what your saying Dave, but I have to smile about the butt loads of folks powering their high powered SS power amps plugged into crusty speed wired 14ga Romax outlets all over the US every day, which of course, causes "mains starvation/power compression" when cranked up !

None of my 4 MC 1201`s are fed their power through a "mains regulator", however the 2 in my bedroom are quite happy being protected with a 120 volt Panamax true 20 surge/spike/ filter sequencer, which has 2 power amp specifically labeled non-inductor high ampere contact relay switching outlets..
The other 2 have been Mac authorized rewired for 240 volts, and are protected each with heavy duty 20amp rated 240 volt Panamax industrial laser printer surge/spike/filter, and the in/out 12ga power cables, that are physically attached to that device, put the provided by Mac as part of the mains voltage conversion kit`s "18ga. IEC" power cable to extreme shame !!

I promptly replaced the wimpy Mac supplied 240 volt plug IEC power cords with 12ga. ones, that originally came with the amps as wired for 120 volts and just cut the 120 volt plug off, and wired up a Hubble 20amp rated 240 volt, and haven't looked back, as I feel my carefully chosen protectors ampacity can and do their job sonically transparently.

Those 240 volt wired Mac`s have broken/separated the glue bond twice between the spider and voice coil on my XRT-30`s 2 of the 4 12" woofers at different times during strong impulse very low frequency bass notes, at realistic SPL, and that speaker system recommends the MC 1201 amplifier in the owner`s manual, so I`m confident that my power conditioning fed setup is not squashing/starving the amps demand for un-restricted impulse power current demands..

I can`t speak for other`s in this respect, just what I know works for my selection & configuration..

Take care and enjoy your weekend folks.
 
DaveVoorhis said:
Bigger caps in a preamp are about reducing hum rather than storing joules of energy for transient response.
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Non-experiential speculation noted. No doubt you are more knowledgeable than those who actually design, test and audition this level of gear. Reminds me of one of Rusty's lines in Vacation at the end of the talk.


"Each channel has its own power supply board with over 100,000uf of capacitance for unfettered transient response."

Audio engineers just smile . ;)
 
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SB12345 said:
Vinegar on french fries is GREAT.

There's a place on the boardwalk in Ocean City MD named Thrashers that has been selling their delicious home-cut french fries for about ninety years. Strictly vinegar, ketchup is not allowed within 50 ft. of their counters.

Visit the place during the summer, especially weekends, and the crowd will be lined up six deep.

https://thrashersfries.com/ocean-city-md-french-fries
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You just gave me a flashback to the hot dog stand on Little Lake beach in Midland Ontario. Sun, surf, CHUM-AM (from "T-O", eh?) and vinegar and fries.
 
E-Stat said:
Non-experiential speculation noted. No doubt you are more knowledgeable that those who actually design, test and audition this level of gear.
"Each channel has its own power supply board with over 100,000uf of capacitance for unfettered transient response."

Audio engineers just smile . ;)
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That was written by the marketing department, not Engineering, so I think your comment is non-experiential speculation about what audio engineers might do. :D

I don't claim to have anywhere near all the knowledge of those who develop audio electronics for a living, but I learn more every day, and something I do have a little bit of knowledge about is why certain capacitors of certain sizes are used in the power supplies of certain kinds of gear.

It's true that larger capacity power supply capacitors are generally more able to handle transients than small ones, but in preamplifiers it's not about "unfettered transient response". An input signal that swings about 1mv (-ish... say, a moving coil cartridge) at the preamp input may need to swing 2 volts (ish), but it's into a relatively high impedance load (a power amplifier input), so it doesn't need joules of reserve power. The transient response would already be as "unfettered" as it could be with power supply capacity considerably smaller than 100,000mfd, and any more "unfettered" than the original input signal, relatively speaking, would be a form of distortion.

By way of analogy, if you're thirsty and your drinking capacity is a few big glasses of water, whether you're dipping your glass in a bucket or a river doesn't affect how much water you can drink.

In short, big caps in a preamplifier are all about reducing line ripple, no matter what the brochure says.

If I'm wrong about this -- and perhaps I am; I'm wrong about many things on a daily basis, it's part of learning -- I welcome input in terms of relevant electronics and physics but please, not marketing materials.
 
DaveVoorhis said:
That was written by the marketing department, not Engineering, so I think your comment is non-experiential speculation about what audio engineers might do.
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You live in an imaginary world where facts don't exist - just your uninformed speculation devoid of real world experience. In small companies like Pass Labs and VTL, there is no "marketing department". There's one guy named Joe Sammut. Nelson Pass writes the manuals at Pass as does Bea Lamm (Luke Manley's wife) at VTL.

DaveVoorhis said:
but in preamplifiers it's not about "unfettered transient response".
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Feel free to live in a world driven by speculation alone. My question is the same as Rusty's. ;)

Thanks for the grins, Dave. Must be dinner time there across the pond.
 
Bill Ferris said:
Ok, then why is E-Stat`s 12:40PM post #187 on this thread signed "Every thing is relative, Dave" at the end ?
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I might have confused you in that post contains quotes from both you and Dave Voorhis. The first quotes you while the second quotes DV.

It is that Dave to whom I was addressing the observation.
 
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