Manufacturers commenting on AK (?)

[bhunter]

Good for you to donate to charity, but this is non-profit board. Would you like it to become for profit? Think about the changes that would entail.....


Jim (ehoove) is one of the gents that makes this forum great. He cares about it and wants to keep it going, as do I.

If you run an open board, then you will usually have a number of people free ride; however, those free riders also provide value to the forum. The decision is up to the owners of the board. Pointing out someone's lack of a paid subscription to devalue their post smacks of elitism. Further, such judgements are made without any knowledge of the financial health or life circumstance of the poster.

 

[getter365]

I can't believe that all manufacturers dislike this forum. After all, they can certainly learn what people want in a product from this place. This kind of feedback is priceless if you are a manufacturer. I am sure many members here are manufacturers going "incognito" or not. I see a lot of people in the audio business on here (because they display their website). And if they have a genuine interest in audio (other than making a buck), then they should like this site I would think.

If I made amplifiers or turntables, I'd be on here often "listening" to what our customers want.

The manufacturers that don't like this sight will probably wind up going out of business due to their poor attitude toward their prospects. Does't matter how great your product is. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.

There is one reason that I think may be why a manufacturer may not like this sight. It is educational and has a great wealth of knowledge that helps us repair our components and keep them going for decades. Manufacturers want you to throw out what breaks and buy a new one every couple of years. Just look at cell phones - Yikes. What the heck is going on with that industry and people addicted to it? Anyway, that is my two cents.

 

[Mister Pig]

This thread took a life I never expected, and wound up with people arguing over subscriptions/donations, capital punishment, whether vintage is better than current stuff, etc.
Yep, just like having a conversation in real life!

Well, as I said, I've read about the "issue" in other threads. I don't keep a log of every post or thread I've read to be able to quote the info. later (just like I couldn't name the person who told me the "monkey and cue ball" joke a few months ago), but it's on this site as I don't belong to any other audio-related sites.

After reading almost every post, I'll say this before the thread gets locked:

If a mfgr. thinks we are all a bunch of dicks due to the boorish behavior of some members at shows/fests (or even on the site), I guess it indicates small-mindedness on their part. If they are selling to the public, they should know better than to judge the many by the behavior of the few.

I understand that ad revenue helps to turn a profit for the site owners, but I'd hope they wouldn't have a forum that expects its members to temper their discussions in order to make mfgrs happy (to me, that would be akin to the never-ending accusations that magazines review products more favorably when the mfgr. advertises in the magazine). I think most of us realize that given the number of paid subscribers here, the site is fully paid for, could survive for years on past subscription revenue and is already generating profit without the ad revenue.

For those who gripe about non-paying members: piss off. If the owners of the site offer free access to specific areas of the site, they are offering it for FREE. If someone wants to utilize the free stuff and nothing more, they are 100% entitled to do so to the fullest extent they can and should not be insulted for NOT contributing money. It's the nature of "FREE". If you don't like it, start your own 100% subscription-based forum and go play there, or convince the owners of this one to take away free access.
I'm sure the owners know there is a risk/reward in giving something away and are obviously happy with that risk reward as they continue to offer the limited free access.

Vintage versus modern?
Seriously?
You might as well argue which peanut butter is better than another. You like what you like and that's your opinion (but please stop thinking your personal opinions, preferences, or experiences are FACT, 'cuz it just ain't so.
If it coincides with fact, so be it. Congrats to you.

I think you make some major assumptions about what it costs to run AK, and what the revenue is. I suspect it costs far more to run this site than most realize, and that paid subscriptions are far smaller than you might think. Do I know this for a fact? No. But it is my personal opinion that no one is getting rich off AK.

Regards
Mister Pig

 

[quaddriver]

You might as well argue which peanut butter is better than another. .

jiff.

duh.

 

[62caddy]

I can't believe that all manufacturers dislike this forum.

Neither can I.

Nor should it be supposed this is the case without some more concrete information about exactly what was said and the context in which made.

For all we know it could have been a one-time venting by a single factory rep about a single member - who may even have been banned (for a poor attitude, trolling etc.)

 

[kirk57]

It is my personal opinion that people who have post counts in the thousands here, expensive stereo equipment, and can't pony up $25 a year (that's 7 cents a day) to subscribe should be ashamed of themselves.

That's all I have to say about it.

 

[woodj]

+1 Mister Pig, the costs certainly are not chump change.

 

[jomondz]

It is my personal opinion that people who have post counts in the thousands here, expensive stereo equipment, and can't pony up $25 a year (that's 7 cents a day) to subscribe should be ashamed of themselves.

That's all I have to say about it.

No offense but sounds like if I spend thousands on "expensive stereo equipment" I am obliged to pay.
I've heard this method but I couldn't clearly recall. hmmm

What about people who actually don't spend thousands on "expensive stereo equipment" but choose to subscribe? How SHOULD this person FEEL?

Now I have to check my paypal because I feel like the audiokarma subscription is $100. I'm not so sure though if I mixed this amount of spending with another forum amount of spending. Oh wait, yes, audio karma is $25 and the $100 ish is for another forum.

Please continue the discussion (or not) . (where's the eating popcorn animation stuff is?)

I apologise for not so good memory.

Wait, am I splurging money carelessly because I couldn't even remember on what did I spend the money on? I guess I have to do habit adjustment (or not) to really exercise "respect" to money.

 

[rcspkramp]

Might want to expand your view of what's around today.

^^^^^This.

 

[similost]

 

[datafone]

It is my personal opinion that people who have post counts in the thousands here, expensive stereo equipment, and can't pony up $25 a year (that's 7 cents a day) to subscribe should be ashamed of themselves.

That's all I have to say about it.

Oh dear me...

My post count is in the thousands and I have a nice system, doesn't make any difference that it has taken me several years to get it this way...and I had to skimp on car repairs, haircuts and even food stuff, to have what I have... given such a low income.

Do I feel ashamed?..no.......will I because you say I should?.....NO! That's laughable.

But I'll leave this forum and leave more room for you.. and your high horse to move about.

 

[Brett a]

I think there are two simple simple tings that have been misconstrued in this thread: One is simply common on the site, the other actually relates to the topic of the thread.

The first is that for some people black plastic crap is all they know for modern gear. They don't seem to be aware of all the gear being made today that matches, and often exceeds, the quality of the silver faced vintage gear that so many here have a passion for. I don't doubt that the stuff we see in Best Buy and Sears deserves it's designation as BPC. But if that's all a person has seen out there, of course they are going to think that's all that's available. And if this is the case, they are simply, factually wrong.

The other point which actually relates to this thread's concern is also simple. If manufacturers did not support this site financially, there would be no AudoKarma to join! I doubt the individual people who donate and subscribe could keep the place open.

None of AK is actually free. bandwidth, maintenance and other costs require bills to pay. And free membership is part of the internet forum culture, but in every case, someone is paying real dollars for the infrastructure. Heck, I might even guess that the $25+ I give a year doesn't pay my own rent here considering how many photos I upload that the site has to store in perpetuity; someone is subsidizing my presence here. And for that I am grateful.

EDIT TO ADD:
Actually after all that typing, it looks like I didn't totally get to the point of the thread. It matter what manufactures and retailers think of us b/c we need their support. Should we dictate or fabricate a facade for the site so they'll like us? No. But nonetheless, it's something to point out.

 

[62caddy]

Oh dear me...

My post count is in the thousands and I have a nice system, doesn't make any difference that it has taken me several years to get it this way...and I had to skimp on car repairs, haircuts and even food stuff, to have what I have... given such a low income.

Do I feel ashamed?..no.......will I because you say I should?.....NO! That's laughable.

But I'll leave this forum and leave more room for you.. and your high horse to move about.

You're still under 2,000 - so not in thousands yet - so you're still okay.

 

[4-2-7]

Nah.. Jim is just a favorite because he has people over and feeds them once or twice a year and lets them play with his crappy stereo

I stand corrected

 

[datafone]

You're still under 2,000 - so not in thousands yet - so you're still okay.

Safe!

:thmbsp:

Was attempting to get a point across to him though, may work or may not.

 

[4-2-7]

I can agree to that as long as it's sensible gear—and IMHO McIntosh is always sensible. Hell, one could argue that over time it's less expensive than lower priced gear.

I agree with that you get added value over the long run.

 

[4-2-7]

AK is a non-profit entity - hence the .org website address. The AK founders are using all the tools they have at their disposal to keep this forum going (google ads, etc.). Besides donations, that is the only money coming in.

And Grummpy auctioning off tons of his records that non sucribers don't see

 

[jomondz]

And Grummpy auctioning off tons of his records that non sucribers don't see

Why did you tell the secret that is only "EXCLUSIVE" to the SUBSCRIBERS?
Non subscribers will benefit and we are (subscribers) are no longer "EXCLUSIVE".
(read in a whispering tone)

Nah, I'm not serious.

 

[Stephen J]

....... this is non-profit board. .....

Sayyy What ??

I don't think so ! .

AK is a non-profit entity - hence the .org website address. The AK founders are using all the tools they have at their disposal to keep this forum going Besides donations, that is the only money coming in.

One of two things.....either this site costs more to run than other sites using the same format.
Or you seriously underestimate how much revenue.... (google ads, etc.) generate in a forum this size.

The domain name org is a generic top-level domain (gTLD) of the Domain Name System (DNS) used in the Internet. The name is truncated from organization. It was one of the original domains established in 1985 and operated by the Public Interest Registry since 1988. The domain extension was originally created for non-profits, but this designation no longer exists.

 

[62caddy]

Actually after all that typing, it looks like I didn't totally get to the point of the thread. It matter what manufactures and retailers think of us b/c we need their support. Should we dictate or fabricate a facade for the site so they'll like us? No. But nonetheless, it's something to point out.

If I understand the position, while AK is not, nor will it attempt to censor its members who conform to the rules as set forth yet, should - "nonetheless, it's something to point out" be interpreted that members should (or should not) use caution in voicing an opinion that x (unknown) manufacturer may find objectionable?

Not trying to be facetious, I am trying to understand the precise position.