Marantz 2265 Restoration Tips Wanted

[LFazio51]

First, as someone whose only been a member for five hours, please correct me if this is not the correct place to post this thread, and your recommendations as to where this thread should be posted would be well appreciaged.

Audio has been a hobby of mine since the age of 11 (I'm 51 now!) My passion for vintage equipment was recently re-ignited as a drive to purchase something with reasonably accurate sound, musicality, imaging, etc. This led to the purchase of a beautiful 2265 in great condition as well as a "fresh" desire to engage this hobby from a different perspective - restoration. I'm extremely excited to move from the sales and marketing aspect of my background into the technical. Once educated enough I feel like I may be able to engage in "re-capping" projects, etc. I've spent the last three months reading, YouTubing, and generally "soaking-up" as much information as possible on the topic. I finally had the time to register with AK this morning and ask for some general guidance and advice. Please keep in mind, I have not yet turned one screw on the unit, nor do I intend to without the proper knowledge and confidence required.

I've read many threads on the topic but wanted to reach out to the community for some specific guidance and advice from those more experienced , so please speak freely and ALL advice will be taken constructively and very much appreciated.

The unit has not be "re-capped," and will need a "re-lamp" job as well. And while I'm not rushing the project, I'd like to engage fairly quick (within 6 months). Any advice on reading materials, videos, techniques, pitfalls to avoid, cap replacement for the best audio, etc. would be greatly appreciated. I realize all of these areas will take time to investigate and learn, but I'm hopeful that your feedback will prove to be invaluable in the process.

The 2265 is currently running a pair of ADS L710's and sounds decent at the moment; however, I'd like to restore it with a "no cost" concern for performance by using the best caps and techniques available. The unit has a little distortion with faint "popping" in the left channel when first powered-up (regardless of volume). After 2-3 minutes, it subsides and is very quite.

Your input would be greatly appreciated as I'd like to post a thread of the restoration once engaged.

Thanks again for your consideration and Happy New Year!

 

[KutzlerTrans]

Welcome to AK and congrats on the 2265.
Working on stuff and doing it right the first time is the goal. I can give you a few categories to break down.
Tools
Clean workbench with a protective pad for rolling a receiver around on.
The correct solder and temp controlled solder station
Solder wick
bottle of 100% alcohol, for later and a toothbrush
or i mean for cleaning the board after soldering.
good lighting
nitryl gloves
eye protection
cotton to put over sockets to prevent leaving scratches (Face plate bolts)
more alcohol
sharp flat scraper for cleaning glue off boards
*** Dim Bulb Tester***
Variac and DBT is the best setup.
fine wire cutters
Transistor tester like (peak atlas pro)
Capacitor checker like the Chinese ebay $20 units.
2 Calibrated dvm's. I once took five voltmeters and compared values and three of them ended up in the can. I like and use a few Simson 467 true rms voltmeters. They are spot on.
2)8 ohm loads for testing 100w
lots of containers for screws and parts
Camera and paper/pencil and tape with numbers if you can find it.
rubber coated alligator clips and mini hooks/clips


PARTS
Nichicon PW capacitors for the power supply and Elna Silmic 2 for the rest. There are a lot of good quality caps besides these.
Polypropylene film caps for .1uf and smaller, (builder preference)
Good velum paper and 2 sided tape for dials.
new bulbs, your choice, but i like leds for heat reasons
on semi output transistors and use metal film resistors if need be.
speaker relay
good thermo grease. the white thick stuff.
new insulators for transistors
Zenor diodes and standard diodes
Buy from reputable dealer like mouser or digikee or parts express.
Stick to same uf ratings on caps and raise voltage values on hard working caps like the power supply.
no need to go nuts on big filter caps. stick to the same size can, but i'm not sure if your unit uses the dual style like the 2285b or not. The bigger the filter, the harder it is on the power switch during start up.
plenty of shrink tube
tie straps
if the amp to speaker wire is too small, steal some out of a neon light fixture.


Habits and tips
Unplug it before you work on it.
Don't touch the output transistors when its powered up!
Do one board at a time and test each in the unit (with DBT) before going forward.
Unsolder the pin/wire out of the board without cutting wires.
Mark down neg/pos before removing parts
Write down color and pin # before removing wires and take lots of close up pictures before removing.
Have a few handy cuss words near by for assistance when stuff starts smoking.
NEVER assume a substitute transistor has the same ebc layout.
Replace Diff pair transistors with hfe matched pair
do not replace other transistors unless they are bad. if you have to replace a driver,one, replace its partner in crime also. match them(hfe)
If your unsure, ask for help.
have service manual in front of you for making final adjustments on the idle current bias and DC offset. read the manual and follow it to the t
Do Not trust the silkscreen, ever.
use fader lube on sliding and turn pots and deoxit5 on push button switches.
Connect clips BEFORE powering it up. Be aware of shorting clips out if they shift position.
And my favorite RBuckner trick of wrapping tin foil around dial string if your soldering near it


Man this is a lot of stuff. It should be a sticky. i'm tired, over and out. John

 

[Bert 1100]

Wow, great list you put together there, John!
LFazio, good luck with the 2265 ! It's great fun and very rewarding to end up with a like-new unit !
If I may add :
About thermal grease, do not use the stuff made for computers like arctic silver, they are conductive, which is absolutely prohibited for mounting transistors on heatsinks...
If you decide to go for leds, choose the warm white ones, they will be closer in color to the originals, still a bit whiter. the original incandescent are run under-voltage for lifetime and are pretty yellow.

 

[bryans12v]

I'll add to this already excellent advice.

Get a good copy of the service manual and study it. It's here free of charge in the digital docs section (may have to be a subscriber here, not sure) or on hifi engine.

Read through the service manual errors in the sticky at the top of this forum for any that may pertain to you, write then down in your manual as corrections.

Open the unit up and familiarize yourself with all the boards, figure out which is which. Look at the diagrams and schematic to give yourself a good understanding of what is where and how the signal moves through the unit.

A good starting point would only require a volt meter and deoxit. Clean all the potentiometers and switches a few times, most issues are related to dirty, oxidized contacts. Starting here may eliminate tail chasing down the road so it's good to rule out immediately. It always good to do two or more cleanings, everything one day and everything again the next day. This gives the deoxit a little time to break through the grime. Give a few hours to dry before powering on.

I would then let it warm up while monitoring the dc offset and idle current, the procedure is outlined in the manual. Once warm, I would make those adjustments as per the manual.

Welcome to AK!

 

[Steven Tate]

Not much to say after KT's excellent post. I might throw a little monkey wrench in your plans by passing along excellent advice that was given to me when I started this journey about eight months ago. My goal was to learn to recap a 2270 that I had on hand. I was advised to start with something simpler and with better access to components like a 2220. I took their advice and used that 2220 as a learning tool. It taught me how to work board by board without having too many wires in the way. And when you finish, you have a very nice receiver. Unfortunately, I got addicted, and I've done about 8 or 9 units now including a 2270, 2275 and 2325. Second piece of advice that everyone does not agree with. A senior member told me to get a Hakko FR300 desoldering station and I would thank him later. He was absolutely correct. 98% of parts can be removed in seconds and with ease. For the ones with very poor access, you still need the braid. The cost is a little over $300 on Amazon. Pro techs tell me it isn't durable enough for daily work, but for a hobbyist, it is a jewel.
Steve

 

[LFazio51]

You guys have been so generous with such great advice, I can't thank you enough! I'm still working on my parts and tool list (fun fun) but may need to "push" this project along quicker than anticipated. I was doing some listening last night and noticed a definite deterioration in sound quality - irrespective of volume, signal peaks are becoming slightly distorted.

My goal is to replace the capacitors in the power amp boards (P700), power supply (P800), phono preamp (P400), and the tone board (PE01) but I'm certain there are additional items, such as small transistors that may need replacement as well. I've watched some videos on YouTube (Blueglow Electronics) indicating there are (2) small transistors located on the Power Supply board that should also be replaced. This is where it gets real confusing as I have no idea, other than capacitors, what truly needs to be replaced/upgraded, how to cross-reference suitable replacements, or, test for proper voltages in an effort to actually determine component replacement. John's list will prove invaluable but I'm still uncomfortable with component selection or cross-referencing on Mouser, Digikee, etc. Therefore, I may have to prevail on you guys for a little more details in this area once I get my component list together. Thanks again John for helping in the "wee hours" of the morning! Your list will be transposed and definitely put to good use!

I've put a considerable amount of thought into the lighting and have not yet decided between original fuse lamps or LEDs. I'm a purist and would like the to restore as close to original cosmetics as possible, therefore, I'm leaning towards the 8v 200ma fuse lamps as the color temp of the warm white LED's, as Bert indicates, is different and will result in a slightly different color than the original turquoise. I realize this is very minor in the grand scheme of this project but I want to get it right and do things efficient; not very efficient to remove and replace the vellum if you're going to go back with fuse lamps. If anyone can speak to the ultimate change in dial face color between these two options, you'll most likely put me out of my misery and I'll be able to order and move this project forward! lol! Thanks again Bert for the great advice on the lights! If anyone knows the color temperature of the original fuse lamps, please feel free to share.

I really like Bryan's advice concerning the service manuals and the Deoxit. I've downloaded the service manual from HFE but I'm considering having it printed at Office Depot since I don't really have anything more than a laptop; at 51 my eyes aren't what they used to be! I've purchased both the Deoxit D5 and F5 so I think I'll get started with the cleaning tonight, but I've never considered performing this task multiple times such as Bryan indicates - sage advice Bryan and well appreciated!

Mr. Tate, thanks so much for your advice concerning practice runs! Given my impetuous nature for vintage electronics, in the course of two months I've ended up with both a Pioneer SX1500TD and a Pioneer SA7800 integrated amp (photos attached)! I think a practice run on the 1500TD would be most appropriate although, while listening to the 7800, fresh from being serviced by a repair facility in Austin TX, the thing made a loud "pop" and produce a small atomic "plume" from it's vent. Not sure what to do about it as I've not yet investigate - maybe I should start with it! lol!

Finally, I'm taking all advice on soldering stations, and other tools as well. I'm looking at a Hakko FX888D station but am open to other temp controlled stations as well. And I will definitely consider the FR300 de-soldering station Steven recommends as I can see where life in the world of restoration would become extremely easy!

Sorry for being so "long-winded" but there's so many considerations and I'd really like to get this right on the first run and avoid as many problems as possible. Thanks again to all for the great advice and I look forward to any additional ideas as well.

Kind regards,

Lynn

 

[Steven Tate]

I'm sure there are many good soldering stations. I happen to also have the Hakko FX888D. It's a pleasure to work with. I compare this hobby to learning to play guitar (which I did about 50 years ago). It's so much easier with a good instrument than with a piece of crap instrument. I feel the same way about tools. Trying to go cheap will usually make life harder than it has to be. As for bulbs, when I started this hobby several months ago, I was firmly in the OEM bulb camp. But I started experimenting with LED's along the way, and now I don't think I would rebuild one with OEM lamps. That's not to say there is a right or wrong answer. It's purely personal preference. Good luck!

Edit: BTW, one reason for staying with Marantz for an opener is that Marantz tended to use the same or similar schemes in the way it built things along all of it's models. I think if you learn on something in the realm of a 2215 or 2220, you will begin to build a mental image of what to look for in larger models.

 

[LFazio51]

I'm sure there are many good soldering stations. I happen to also have the Hakko FX888D. It's a pleasure to work with. I compare this hobby to learning to play guitar (which I did about 50 years ago). It's so much easier with a good instrument than with a piece of crap instrument. I feel the same way about tools. Trying to go cheap will usually make life harder than it has to be. As for bulbs, when I started this hobby several months ago, I was firmly in the OEM bulb camp. But I started experimenting with LED's along the way, and now I don't think I would rebuild one with OEM lamps. That's not to say there is a right or wrong answer. It's purely personal preference. Good luck!

Edit: BTW, one reason for staying with Marantz for an opener is that Marantz tended to use the same or similar schemes in the way it built things along all of it's models. I think if you learn on a 2015 or 2220, you will begin to build a mental image of what to look for in larger models.

You are most correct my friend! I play a little guitar as well and there's nothing worse than trying to play a cheap one! I always say, "if you by the best first, you only have to cry once!" Pretty sure that Hakko will be purchased shortly from Amazon along with many other items. Can't beat the fun of buying new tools for a new hobby!

 

[LFazio51]

Your point concerning the practice work on a small Marantz is well taken, however, as you can see, I would have to make another purchase. Although the logic may very well pass the "wife test!"

 

[rBuckner]

On the Pio that smoked, I'd be taking it back and asking them to check and see if any "servicing" they did could have caused that. I wouldn't start with trying to fix it though, get some recapping added to your resume first.

The reason that warm white LEDs don't exactly mimic incandescent has to do with the chemistry and physics of the materials used. They are basically a blue chemistry LED that shines into a phosphor coating. Data sheets I've seen show the spectral response of the blue, red and green components. Blue is strong as you'd expect and the red is decent but the green component is lacking. No surprise then that the light at the dial is no longer turquoise. It's a beautiful light blue though! Given that you want it to look original I'd generally recommend the incandescent bulbs (nice job to know they should be 200mA). There may be a catch though. The lamp housings on units of this era were made with styrene plastic vs. the nice metal ones of the earlier series of receivers. Quite often, the housing melts/deforms with heat even with correct original bulbs in there. You may want to go to LED if your housing is somewhat trashed. Be warned that they are usually very brittle by now and easy to break. They used tabs to snap in the lamp board and these almost always break off when trying to get the board out to change the bulbs. Also to know is that you can't just replace the individual lamp bulbs for the function and "stereo" callouts with LEDs. They can't take any AC voltage and even if powered by a dc voltage will need a current limiting resistor, the value of which will also set the brightness.

I'm not sure if it was posted yet, but only work on one board or assembly at a time and test after each. If there's a problem it will limit how much troubleshooting will be needed. Definitely be aware of where your hands are when running the unit with covers off. I don't even pass a tool over a running unit in case I drop it into the hot circuitry!

You've done well by doing so much homework and that's why a lot of us regulars have chimed in - we are not wasting our time! You don't have to know all of the answers before starting and do post questions as you go along. Good luck and see you soon!

 

[LFazio51]

BTW Steven, since you have used the warm white LED's, can you speak to the overall difference in look of the dial face compared to the OEM style lamps? I'm assuming the turquoise that currently exists takes on more of a blue appearance.

 

[LFazio51]

Quite often, the housing melts/deforms with heat even with correct original bulbs in there. You may want to go to LED if your housing is somewhat trashed. Be warned that they are usually very brittle by now and easy to break. They used tabs to snap in the lamp board and these almost always break off when trying to get the board out to change the bulbs. Also to know is that you can't just replace the individual lamp bulbs for the function and "stereo" callouts with LEDs. They can't take any AC voltage and even if powered by a dc voltage will need a current limiting resistor, the value of which will also set the brightness.[/QUOTE]

Great point about the housing rBuckner and thanks for your time and involvement - I truly appreciate it! The info on the housing will help tremendously. I've seen photos of the housings and understand how they can deteriorate, however, I've never thought about using that issue as a basis for bulb determination - but it makes perfect sense - if the housing is already in bad shape, why risk further exposure to the heat from fuse lamps.

 

[Steven Tate]

I personally did not like the look of the warm white LED's. Seemed to me they had a green tinge that wasn't satisfying. I use the regular cool blue LED's, and while the complaint is that they look different from the original, I just think the color is fantastic.

 

[Leestereo]

...My goal is to replace the capacitors in the power amp boards (P700), power supply (P800), phono preamp (P400), and the tone board (PE01)... but I'm still uncomfortable with component selection or cross-referencing on Mouser, Digikee, etc. ...

Note that since many of the Marantz 22xx receivers share the same boards, you can get guidance from the restoration/upgrade threads for models other than specifically the 2265. For example, the P800 power supply board in the 2265 is identical to that used in the 2235B: P800 Restoration/Upgrade. Similarly, the P400 board is identical to that used in the 2325: P400 Restoration/Upgrade and the PE01 board is identical to that used in the 2275: PE01 Restoration/Upgrade

 

[LFazio51]

Note that since many of the Marantz 22xx receivers share the same boards, you can get guidance from the restoration/upgrade threads for models other than specifically the 2265. For example, the P800 power supply board in the 2265 is identical to that used in the 2235B: P800 Restoration/Upgrade. Similarly, the P400 board is identical to that used in the 2325: P400 Restoration/Upgrade and the PE01 board is identical to that used in the 2275: PE01 Restoration/Upgrade

Absolutely awesome info! Thanks very much as I'm certain the information will be extremely useful sir!! Happy New Year and thanks again for taking the time to lend a helping hand to a newbie!!

 

[LFazio51]

I personally did not like the look of the warm white LED's. Seemed to me they had a green tinge that wasn't satisfying. I use the regular cool blue LED's, and while the complaint is that they look different from the original, I just think the color is fantastic.

I'm certain the "blue" LEDs look very nice, just hard for me to tell as I've only seen photos and would like to seem them in person. I might just purchase both types and see what suits me best.

 

[LFazio51]

I'm also thinking about buying a Peak Electronics ESR70 tester for testing capacitors. Is this a wise investment or is there a less expensive, equally effective approach? Given my scope, and the focus for replacing ALL old capacitors, I'm not sure that it would be of value at this point in time, at least while I have other necessary tools to purchase. Just curious to get opinions to check my thinking.

 

[Steven Tate]

As an almost noob, I can say that in the first ten receivers I have rebuilt, I have yet to test a capacitor. A capacitor tester is certainly worth having in the stable once you get to the diagnosis and repair phase, but there are a lot of other things I think you need first. I'm assuming you have seen Echowars famous thread So You Want To Repair Audio gear, Eh? Here's the tools you need...

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/so-you-want-to-repair-audio-gear-eh-heres-the-tools-you-need.333423/

 

[LFazio51]

As an almost noob, I can say that in the first ten receivers I have rebuilt, I have yet to test a capacitor. A capacitor tester is certainly worth having in the stable once you get to the diagnosis and repair phase, but there are a lot of other things I think you need first. I'm assuming you have seen Echowars famous thread So You Want To Repair Audio gear, Eh? Here's the tools you need...

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/so-you-want-to-repair-audio-gear-eh-heres-the-tools-you-need.333423/

lol! No I haven't, but based on your remarks, I'm sure it will be great reading this evening!!

 

[KutzlerTrans]

The reason i like the cap checker, is that it does transistors also. Its great for checking inductors also. If your messin with speaker crossovers.
Update: This one i have, i just found out, is actually a trans tester that does caps also. here are some pics. I paid less than $20