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Marantz separates suggestions?

aramirez626

Well-Known Member
I have a Marantz 2275 receiver and am considering the move to separates. I don't listen to the radio. I like the look of the Marantz gear, and the reputation and sound is high quality. Does anyone have a great sounding setup out there? This setup will be powering a set of Vandersteen 2c speakers. The new version of these speakers can handle up to 160 WPC. Mine are an older set and I think they can take up to 120/140 WPC, not sure. I have my eye on either a 300dc or 240 amp that I will hook up to my receiver, then one I save up I will get a preamp and keep/sell the receiver. I will be looking into preamp options. Does this sound like a reasonable setup?

Thanks for any responses!
 
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Separates are a really great way to go. For amplifiers you should consider:

Model 16B 100 WPC A period preamp would be the model 7T or model 33
Model 32 60 WPC Period preamp is the model 33
Model 250 125 WPC Period preamp is the model 3300

Of the 3 amplifier I listed the 16B has my vote for the best overall sound. The 7T is a fantastic preamp and will enhance any amplifier it is paired with.

The Model 33 preamp is my next choice plus it has its own separate headphone amplifier which is a nice added extra feature.

All of these models are readily available and are fairly straightforward to rebuild and repair.

The 300DC is rare and hard to find, so it will be expensive.

Oh, and then there's always the 500 and 510 if you want to go really big

Separates are fun!
 
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Separates are a really great way to go. For amplifiers you should consider:

Model 16B 100 WPC A period preamp would be the model 7T or model 33
Model 32 60 WPC Period preamp is the model 33
Model 250 125 WPC Period preamp is the model 3300

Of the 3 amplifier I listed the 16B has my vote for the best overall sound. The 7T is a fantastic preamp and will enhance any amplifier it is paired with.

The Model 33 preamp is my next choice plus it has its own separate headphone amplifier which is a nice added extra feature.

All of these models are readily available and are fairly straightforward to rebuild and repair.

The 300DC is rare and hard to find, so it will be expensive.

Oh, and then there's always the 500 and 510 if you want to go really big

Separates are fun!

Thanks for the suggestions. The 300 DC I see is $899. Is that reasonable? What do you think of the 240 amp?
 
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Thanks for the suggestions. The 300 DC I see is $899. Is that reasonable? What do you think of the 240 amp?

Chris has listed the best choices. The difficult part is finding a good workable example of any of these great amps, at a fair price.
For my money, assuming you don't want to spend mega bucks for a Marantz 500 system (which will require a good tech), the Model 510/510M is a great way to go. Owners are not often willing to give up these great amps, so you've got to be patient. With its big meters, a functional 510M can get pretty expensive. ($900~1200 or more is not uncommon) But the Model 510 is the exact some amp, but without the meters. Personally, I've got over $1800 invested in an aggressively refurbed 510M. At the end of the day, I'm much happier with my investment in 2 Model 510 amps that I bought for $500 and $600. You'll have to be patient though, and I'd happily pay $750 for a clean, functioning Model 510 today; and then plan on a restoration. This is a world class amp, only bested by the mighty 500.
Where my 510M sits in the livingroom, you can't even see the amp, let alone the meters. Yah, the meters are pretty for the first week or so, but...
The 300DC is a nice amp; but at that price it better have a recent well documented restoration, by a talented, well motivated tech. Otherwise I'd be shopping for a Model 250. They are much easier to find, but even with the greater numbers manufactured, owners are rarely quick to give them up.
To be at its best, a Model 250 will need a QUALITY Restoration. Same for any of the Marantz amps listed by Chris. Otherwise you have a wildcard. Regardless of which amp you eventually buy, find a good tech.
A good tech is a necessity to a Vintage Audio owner.:yes:
 
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Are you only considering vintage separates? :)

Just a thought. I like both old and new.
To be honest, I have only researched vintage gear so I wouldnt even know where to start. In fact, after reading PB_Audio's post, it may be smarter to buy old and new. Do you have suggestions?
 
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Chris has listed the best choices. The difficult part is finding a good workable example of any of these great amps, at a fair price.
For my money, assuming you don't want to spend mega bucks for a Marantz 500 system (which will require a good tech), the Model 510/510M is a great way to go. Owners are not often willing to give up these great amps, so you've got to be patient. With its big meters, a functional 510M can get pretty expensive. ($900~1200 or more is not uncommon) But the Model 510 is the exact some amp, but without the meters. Personally, I've got over $1800 invested in an aggressively refurbed 510M. At the end of the day, I'm much happier with my investment in 2 Model 510 amps that I bought for $500 and $600. You'll have to be patient though, and I'd happily pay $750 for a clean, functioning Model 510 today; and then plan on a restoration. This is a world class amp, only bested by the mighty 500.
Where my 510M sits in the livingroom, you can't even see the amp, let alone the meters. Yah, the meters are pretty for the first week or so, but...
The 300DC is a nice amp; but at that price it better have a recent well documented restoration, by a talented, well motivated tech. Otherwise I'd be shopping for a Model 250. They are much easier to find, but even with the greater numbers manufactured, owners are rarely quick to give them up.
To be at its best, a Model 250 will need a QUALITY Restoration. Same for any of the Marantz amps listed by Chris. Otherwise you have a wildcard. Regardless of which amp you eventually buy, find a good tech.
A good tech is a necessity to a Vintage Audio owner.:yes:

After reading all this, it seems wiser for me to buy a new amp for $1,000, rather than a $500/$600 vintage amp and spend another $600 restoring it. :scratch2:
 
After reading all this, it seems wiser for me to buy a new amp for $1,000, rather than a $500/$600 vintage amp and spend another $600 restoring it. :scratch2:

I gave you the wrong idea. While you can spend a good bit on best quality parts, and any upgrades can get pricey, a functional amp should be able to be refurbed for between $250 to 400, depending on original condition and how much work you and your tech plan to complete.
With proper use of Modern Audio Grade caps, these amps can sound even better than new, and yet preserve the same sonic character.
Technology marches on, and the best modern caps are better than even the best 30 year old caps, when they were new.
In the end, to buy equivalent quality in a new amp, be prepared to pay more than double, and then once its out of warranty where are you?:no:
 
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I would recommend the 3650 + 300DC combination as offering a lot of flexibility and a really nice, rich sound. Both of these are comparatively rare, though, and may be expensive. (I was lucky enough to find several of each at well-below-market prices a few years back, but you may not be that lucky where you are, today. I haven't seen any more of them around here recently, either.)

If you spin vinyl, one advantage of the 3650 preamp is the flexibility it offers for using different cartridges (MM or MC) at different impedances. I don't know of any other preamp except for certain dedicated "phono preamps" that gives you as many adjustments, and the adjustments do affect the sound quality.

Of course, added features like that mean more components (capacitors, resistors, etc...) internally, so recapping/restoring a unit like that is more work. If you are able to do repairs yourself, by all means get one. Otherwise, find a competent tech and be willing to pay for a good overhaul. This is unavoidable for units this age, if you want the best sound. The good thing is that, once restored, you'll have a great-looking, great-sounding unit that will give great enjoyment for years to come, and --with some TLC every 10-20 years or so, may well last you (and your children!) a lifetime.

These units should also hold their value well, too, for at least as long as there are baby boomers still around who appreciate them, and possibly a bit longer.

Don't shy away from some of the earlier, lesser-powered units, either, like the 240.

I would recommend avoiding the later series which start with letters, not numbers. While not all that bad, really, they just aren't up to the standards of the earlier units. By then, Marantz (under new corporate ownership) was cutting costs, and it shows internally, even if the outward appearance remains somewhat similar.

The exception to later units is the "Esotec" series; these were made in parallel with the cheapened mainstream units, but kept a lot of the quality level and circuit design features of earlier units. Any unit you find that says "Esotec" on it, should be worth getting.

I went the same route, starting with receivers and then moving to separates (although I've kept some of the favorite receivers as a "collection" of sorts, too), and don't regret it. The separates are a step up, especially the TOTL 3650 preamp with the 300DC.

The 500/510 amp series are monsters, ones to dream of, but considerably rarer and even more expensive. If you can find (and afford) one, by all means get it --it's "the ultimate" in Marantz power amplification-- but the 300DC will already give you enough power; it was often used in clubs and such for sustained commercial use, because of its power and robustness. If a reasonably-priced 300DC doesn't present itself, don't hesitate to go for a 240, either. They're easier to find, more affordable, and almost as good.

You said you don't listen to radio very much. You might consider looking for one of the tuners that has a scope, though, just to "complete the stack" and add the coolness factor of the dancing scope! If you really want to complete a Marantz system, look for a 6300 turntable and Imperial 9 speakers, as well, and perhaps a 5025 or 5400 (different, studio-like flat design) or similar cassette deck. If you do want to add a cassette deck, you could also consider a slightly later SD-4000 series, which still matches well visually and offers a faster tape speed (dual speed) and thus slightly better sound. This model was also released under the "Esotec" label, at least in Japan, but I've only seen two of them; one was sold a few years ago on the Yahoo Japan site, and I own the other. :D It appears identical to the one without the "Esotec" marking, though; I suspect they stamped the name on it briefly, just to be able to offer a "complete" Esotec series to the market.
 
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...I would recommend avoiding the later series which start with letters, not numbers. While not all that bad, really, they just aren't up to the standards of the earlier units. By then, Marantz (under new corporate ownership) was cutting costs, and it shows internally, even if the outward appearance remains somewhat similar.


I agree with everything else in your post, and well said at that, except I would that add that by the mid to late 90's I feel they regained general focus. The Music Link series comes to mind.

Back to the OP, buy what you like. I have a 2238b that sounds fantastic with some Polk monitor speakers. It's amazing something so inexpensive sounds that good. The 2238b got me hooked on Marantz, and from there I got into the newer stuff.
 
I gave you the wrong idea. While you can spend a good bit on best quality parts, and any upgrades can get pricey, a functional amp should be able to be refurbed for between $250 to 400, depending on original condition and how much work you and your tech plan to complete.
With proper use of Modern Audio Grade caps, these amps can sound even better than new, and yet preserve the same sonic character.
Technology marches on, and the best modern caps are better than even the best 30 year old caps.
In the end, to buy equivalent quality in a new amp, be prepared to pay more than double, and then once its out of warranty where are you?:no:

Oh, I see. Got it. Thanks for clarifying.
 
I would recommend the 3650 + 300DC combination as offering a lot of flexibility and a really nice, rich sound. Both of these are comparatively rare, though, and may be expensive. (I was lucky enough to find several of each at well-below-market prices a few years back, but you may not be that lucky where you are, today. I haven't seen any more of them around here recently, either.)

If you spin vinyl, one advantage of the 3650 preamp is the flexibility it offers for using different cartridges (MM or MC) at different impedances. I don't know of any other preamp except for certain dedicated "phono preamps" that gives you as many adjustments, and the adjustments do affect the sound quality.

Of course, added features like that mean more components (capacitors, resistors, etc...) internally, so recapping/restoring a unit like that is more work. If you are able to do repairs yourself, by all means get one. Otherwise, find a competent tech and be willing to pay for a good overhaul. This is unavoidable for units this age, if you want the best sound. The good thing is that, once restored, you'll have a great-looking, great-sounding unit that will give great enjoyment for years to come, and --with some TLC every 10-20 years or so, may well last you (and your children!) a lifetime.

These units should also hold their value well, too, for at least as long as there are baby boomers still around who appreciate them, and possibly a bit longer.

Don't shy away from some of the earlier, lesser-powered units, either, like the 240.

I would recommend avoiding the later series which start with letters, not numbers. While not all that bad, really, they just aren't up to the standards of the earlier units. By then, Marantz (under new corporate ownership) was cutting costs, and it shows internally, even if the outward appearance remains somewhat similar.

The exception to later units is the "Esotec" series; these were made in parallel with the cheapened mainstream units, but kept a lot of the quality level and circuit design features of earlier units. Any unit you find that says "Esotec" on it, should be worth getting.

I went the same route, starting with receivers and then moving to separates (although I've kept some of the favorite receivers as a "collection" of sorts, too), and don't regret it. The separates are a step up, especially the TOTL 3650 preamp with the 300DC.

The 500/510 amp series are monsters, ones to dream of, but considerably rarer and even more expensive. If you can find (and afford) one, by all means get it --it's "the ultimate" in Marantz power amplification-- but the 300DC will already give you enough power; it was often used in clubs and such for sustained commercial use, because of its power and robustness. If a reasonably-priced 300DC doesn't present itself, don't hesitate to go for a 240, either. They're easier to find, more affordable, and almost as good.

You said you don't listen to radio very much. You might consider looking for one of the tuners that has a scope, though, just to "complete the stack" and add the coolness factor of the dancing scope! If you really want to complete a Marantz system, look for a 6300 turntable and Imperial 9 speakers, as well, and perhaps a 5025 or 5400 (different, studio-like flat design) or similar cassette deck. If you do want to add a cassette deck, you could also consider a slightly later SD-4000 series, which still matches well visually and offers a faster tape speed (dual speed) and thus slightly better sound. This model was also released under the "Esotec" label, at least in Japan, but I've only seen two of them; one was sold a few years ago on the Yahoo Japan site, and I own the other. :D It appears identical to the one without the "Esotec" marking, though; I suspect they stamped the name on it briefly, just to be able to offer a "complete" Esotec series to the market.

Thanks. Alot of these things are hard to find. I see a 300dc for 899 and a 240 for 500. I dont know if these are reasonable prices, but because of the rarity I may bite the bullet and get one of them.

That said, are there general sound quality compatibility issues with certain preamps? In other words, are certain preamps more compatible with the 300dc that are different than the 240?
 
After reading your posts, I get the feeling that buying that 240 amp would be a good way for you to go. I think your Vandys will appreciate what it can do compared to the amp in your 2275 and it's a less expensive "experiment". If that does a lot for you then you can think about more separates.

I can tell you....For the last several years I have been using receivers (18,19 and 2270) in my vintage room. I loved listening to music in there and it continued long after the "honeymoon" phase. I finally decided to go the separates route and don't regret it for a single moment.

Chris offers some excellent advice (I used it). First was a 7t preamp as I had several modern amps laying around. Then I completed the look/sound with a 16b amp.
 
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After reading your posts, I get the feeling that buying that 240 amp would be a good way for you to go. I think your Vandys will appreciate what it can do compared to the amp in your 2275 and it's a less expensive "experiment". If that does a lot for you then you can think about more separates.

I can tell you....For the last several years I have been using receivers (18,19 and 2270) in my vintage room. I loved listening to music in there and it continued long after the "honeymoon" phase. I finally decided to go the separates route and don't regret it for a single moment.

Chris offers some excellent advice (I used it). First was a 7t preamp as I had several modern amps laying around. Then I completed the look/sound with a 16b amp.

Thanks for reading and responding. My strategy is to get an amp, use my receiver as a preamp to get a feeling of the sound and enjoy it for a while, then get a preamp. What was your reason for choosing the 7t as opposed to any others, and then why did you change to the 16b?
 
Thanks for reading and responding. My strategy is to get an amp, use my receiver as a preamp to get a feeling of the sound and enjoy it for a while, then get a preamp. What was your reason for choosing the 7t as opposed to any others, and then why did you change to the 16b?

I think that's a good strategy.

Why the 7t...to be honest...looks...then I started reading about how good it sounded. I had my doubts because it was "early solid state". You usually don't read a lot of good about the early transistor stuff but I think the earliest Marantz is pretty good (logic = how bad could it have sounded if it came right after tubes? If it sucked, nobody would have bought it). In my main system, my references are tube preamps (amps also but I do have some Class A ss). I don't like harshness, stridency etc. I don't hear it in the 7t (or 16b). It's just easy to listen to.

Why the 16b...with a receiver, you have an amp, preamp, and tuner all in one chassis...all sharing the same power supply. When an amp doesn't "have" to share a power supply, it's a good thing. Some speakers will benefit from that much more than others and the 16b goes one step farther...it's actually 2 monoblocks attached to one faceplate (even has 2 a/c cords).

Years ago I had some Vandy 2ce's and their 3a. They are not a hard load but I have the feeling they would have benefitted from a dedicated amp as opposed to a receiver.

Check out my post again. I was editing/adding a picture when you posted to me.
 
I think that's a good strategy.

Why the 7t...to be honest...looks...then I started reading about how good it sounded. I had my doubts because it was "early solid state". You usually don't read a lot of good about the early transistor stuff but I think the earliest Marantz is pretty good (logic = how bad could it have sounded if it came right after tubes? If it sucked, nobody would have bought it). In my main system, my references are tube preamps (amps also but I do have some Class A ss). I don't like harshness, stridency etc. I don't hear it in the 7t (or 16b). It's just easy to listen to.

Why the 16b...with a receiver, you have an amp, preamp, and tuner all in one chassis...all sharing the same power supply. When an amp doesn't "have" to share a power supply, it's a good thing. Some speakers will benefit from that much more than others and the 16b goes one step farther...it's actually 2 monoblocks attached to one faceplate (even has 2 a/c cords).

Years ago I had some Vandy 2ce's and their 3a. They are not a hard load but I have the feeling they would have benefitted from a dedicated amp as opposed to a receiver.

Check out my post again. I was editing/adding a picture when you posted to me.


Awesome, thanks! So If I go with the 240, what preamp would be best with it? Should I leave room to upgrade amp later? I kind of want to decide on a final excellent system to enjoy for a few years and then maybe upgrade later so I am not upgrading every year.
 
there all good choices,i have 2-250 amps and a 3800 preamp,i to dont listen to the radio,i have a marantz si 201 ipod dock,now check out irebuildmaratz.com,robert is the marantz god,his majic is awesome,he did my 250 amps for around 500.00 each,80.00 of it was shipping both was..he repalces everything cap/res with top quality he also removes all solder from the boards and replaces/hand flows with silver,when i got amp #1 back,like night and day,unbelievable sound,brought tears to my eyes..now i payed 700.00 for 1 amp and 750.00 for the other,now ive got around 1300.00 into each,but now there world class amps,to buy something new today thats as good as these amp will run way over 10,000.00 easy...the combo with the 3800,to me it cant get anybetter,but dont go cheap with your interconnects either,that is 1 of the weakest links,i had audioquest copperheads,but just replaced with morrow audio ma3s,they sound awesome right out of the box,i ordered with 2 day breakin,really right now i cant tell a difference between them and the copperheads,but they dont peak till about 400 hrs...

now as far as marantz gear goes,stay away from anything made from 84-94 was all junk,marantz japan sold on the name alone...

now right now on ebay there is a pristine 510 ,its been alredone by the guy that built them for marantz in the 70s,,,it up to 2200.00 bucks...yikes !!

but needless to say,what ever ya get from the 70s and have redone by a tech you cant go wrong...
 
Awesome, thanks! So If I go with the 240, what preamp would be best with it? Should I leave room to upgrade amp later? I kind of want to decide on a final excellent system to enjoy for a few years and then maybe upgrade later so I am not upgrading every year.

Preamps...I only have experience with the 7t and I'm satisfied enough that I'm not looking. If I were, it would probably be one of the ones Chris recommended.

Amps...That's your call. The 240 may be all you need. Just try and find one in good shape or factor the price + repair/refurb into the cost of owning.
 
Thanks for the suggestions. The 300 DC I see is $899. Is that reasonable? What do you think of the 240 amp?

The model 240 is simply a meterless 250M. There are two distinct variations of the 240. The original version is covered by serial numbers 0-2499 and the final versions are serial numbers 2500-6900.

The second version would be the amplifier I would look for. It has an improved amplifier design and the bridge rectifiers were moved off the relay board to a board mounted on the main capacitors.

While I haven't work on any actual 240's, I have rebuild several 250M's, 1200 and 1200B's which all share the same basic design as the 240. You will certainly need to rebuild the relay board on any unit you buy. This is a fairly straight forward project and all of the components can be replaced with new parts with much trouble.

Sourcing transistors for the amplifiers can be somewhat challenging but they are still out there if you look. It is important that any 240/250/1200 be in good working order and properly adjusted to give you the reliability you will want.

A unit in poor working condition and misalignment will cause you problems, especially if you drive it into hard clipping.

Look for a good unit and have it worked through. It's a fine amplifier.

I don't think $899.00 is unreasonable for a 300DC many I have seen sold recently have been for over $1300.00
 
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The model 240 is simply a meterless 250M. There are two distinct variations of the 240. The original version is covered by serial numbers 0-2499 and the final versions are serial numbers 2500-6900.

The second version would be the amplifier I would look for. It has an improved amplifier design and the bridge rectifiers were moved off the relay board to a board mounted on the main capacitors.

While I haven't work on any actual 240's, I have rebuild several 250M's, 1200 and 1200B's which all share the same basic design as the 240. You will certainly need to rebuild the relay board on any unit you buy. This is a fairly straight forward project and all of the components can be replaced with new parts with much trouble.

Sourcing transistors for the amplifiers can be somewhat challenging but they are still out there if you look. It is important that any 240/250/1200 be in good working order and properly adjusted to give you the reliability you will want.

A unit in poor working condition and misalignment will cause you problems, especially if you drive it into hard clipping.

Look for a good unit and have it worked through. It's a fine amplifier.

I don't think $899.00 is unreasonable for a 300DC many I have seen sold recently have been for over $1300.00

The 240 I am looking at is Serial No 4953 :D
 
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