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Marantz separates suggestions?

250's come along on eBay fairly often, 510's less so (less than 1800 made?) and 500's are very rare. Are you sure you really need 250+ WPC?

I'd be patient and wait for a 250M in a really nice wood cabinet.

You could also expand your selection to include 1200 and 1200B integrated amplifiers.
 
250's come along on eBay fairly often, 510's less so (less than 1800 made?) and 500's are very rare. Are you sure you really need 250+ WPC?

I'd be patient and wait for a 250M in a really nice wood cabinet.

You could also expand your selection to include 1200 and 1200B integrated amplifiers.

Well, no. I dont need that much. My vandersteens can handle up to 140-160 wpc. This is why I honed in on the 240. I was just curious and have done searches for the 500/510s and have not seen any over the last few weeks.

I have considered integrated amps and have seen several pop up. DO you have any recommendations for any in the 100-140 wpc range?
 
I was wondering the same thing. Love the vintage but the newer separates are outstanding. Tom1040 (You must be an accountant) you have some nice gear!
 
I have looked into this and as far as I can tell this is more of a myth than anything else. The only discussion regarding this on that other forum and when you dissect the thread most of it is meaningless.

Whatever the reasons were behind Marantz revising the amplifiers in 240/250/1200's we will never truly know. The revisions in the earliest models were likely due to problems that were encountered once these models were in the field.

Hi Chris,
My message was meant to draw you and Jk out on this topic. Glad to see BK interested as well. While I'm first and foremost a fan of the Model 500, especially when operating up to its maximum potential (thank you Jk). For most applications the Model 510/510M does a pretty good job approximating the 500, except when one is driving a difficult speaker load OR listening very critically. (Thanks again Jk).
As everyone seems to be suggesting, and especially because the Model 250 already outperforms its specs, why mess with success? Yah, I get that, BUT...
There is a considerable gap up in price, and worse still, availibility between the Model 250 compared to either the Model 300DC or 510/510M. Even the 250 is starting to be scarce.
Jk hit on the issue. My understanding is that, in the design of the Model 250, Marantz used more transformer than would have been necessary, especially based on the Amp board design itself. As a result, when operating within stated specs, the 250 exhibits no issues at all.
Great, but who monitors that they are operating within spec while listening to music... not me.
The imbalance in the amp, when being pushed, can apparently have some unexpected, nasty consequencies. Of course, with a lesser transformer, that was a better balance with the Amp board, this instability would never happen, at least at as high an output level, a la 175+W/ch-RMS.
QUESTION 1: What owner of a carefully refurbed Model 250 wants to be concerned about this potential instability when listening at concert volume levels the next time a loud transient comes along in the music? ... and Oops!
Oops! is not a satisfactory situation... not with an amp of this caliber.
Especially, as Jk has suggested, the imbalance which leads to this instability at higher output levels is not so difficult to understand. Easy for me to say.
QUESTION 2: Can we engineer a fix to reign in this instability before it causes problems; or, better still, in such a way as to allow the Amp board to more fully take advantage of the extra transformer headroom, in effect making the 250 a bigger amp, and yet maintain a balance and avoid the present instabilities at high output. Yes we already have the Model 510/510M and the 500; but they are quickly being bid up in price such that they are no longer an option to many AKers.
Personally, I'm a fan of HI-FI. That means that you don't squeeze down the transients in the music with an amp that just can't quite cut the mustard.
QUESTION 3: Who cares. Do we really want to tackle this problem?
You know my answer. But that's just me, and I'm no engineer.:D
 
The 250 is a very nice amp. Had mine restored a year ago it still sounds amazing to me compared to my receivers. It is a piece that I would hand down to my grandchildren :D
 
What a politican PB audio...were you watching the convention last night? What no chicken in every pot?
 
The imbalance in the amp, when being pushed, can apparently have some unexpected, nasty consequencies.

QUESTION 3: Who cares. Do we really want to tackle this problem?
You know my answer. But that's just me, and I'm no engineer.:D

I have yet to ever see any proof or valid technical explanation that this imbalance exists. It seems to be a rumor started by someone who blew up his 30+ year old 250 when he short his speaker cables.

As for question 3: Not enough people care to justify the time and talent to solve a "problem" that may not even exist. You would need a massive amount of time and experience in amplifier design engineering to develop a off the shelf fix for this "problem". Even if were done the end result would be a fix that very few would have any real interest in.

For the most part owners aren't running their amps so far into hard clipping that it results in a disaster. I don't think its necessary to continually look for ways to push an amplifier 50-60 or 70% beyond its rated output. Perhaps our next project could be finding a way to get 100 WPC for a 2230.

The easiest thing to do is just buy a bigger amplifier.

Keep tuner to this channel. . . coming this winter: my 510 overhaul and rebuild.:D
 
Well, no. I dont need that much. My vandersteens can handle up to 140-160 wpc. This is why I honed in on the 240. I was just curious and have done searches for the 500/510s and have not seen any over the last few weeks.

I have considered integrated amps and have seen several pop up. DO you have any recommendations for any in the 100-140 wpc range?

Here's a link to Audio Classics, you can look through all of the different Marantz models and their specs.
 
There are other sonic benefits to power supply separation.... Buying a larger amp does not address all the issues, but it does help...

The Ps-audio c250 had a separate supply for the amplification stage. I would say it was very close to the model 500 in some ways.

Jk
 
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Well... I gave it my best shot.
To me the Model 250 has excellent potential...
a potential that was never quite realized because Marantz was more interested in the design of their flagship Solid State Power Amps of the time, particularly the Model 500, and later the Model 510/510M versus the Models 250 and 250M, respectively.
Remember, in the very early 1970s there was still a desire on the part of many Audiophiles to return to the days of tube amplifier design. Design efforts at Marantz were very much focused on their flagship. I wouldn't say that the Model 250 got the 'fast shuffle'; but there is an imbalance between the Power Supple, particularly the transformer, and the amp section, as I understand it. That this imbalance only comes into play when the amp is working hard, to me, makes it no less a problem.
In fact, it is precisely when I take some time off to actually listen to the music, at live performance volume, that I need my amp to do its job... and I do NOT want it to get in the way of my music.:music:

When my 250 acts up at volume... I get the Blues...
Maybe Albert King can explain it better. Turn up the volume on those computer squeekers for some BLUES POWER, Link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5dpp2iCRwM
 
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I was wondering the same thing. Love the vintage but the newer separates are outstanding. Tom1040 (You must be an accountant) you have some nice gear!


Yes and thanks! I love the reference stuff. You also have some nice gear. From what I understand, there are new products coming out next year. Should be interesting to see.....
 
Perhaps our next project could be finding a way to get 100 WPC for a 2230.

That's easy...
Just buy a 2270. Refurb it. Then swap your 2230 faceplate onto the 2270. There you have it... a 100WPC '2230'. Of course, this is nonsense.:no:


On the other hand, the 250 already has the necessary power supply, AND does infact output 175Watts/Ch-RMS. All that's needed is to better match the potential of the AMP board to the existing Power Supply.

Yes, this will no doubt require some effort initially; but once the best comprimise is discovered, the mod should cost far less than buying a Model 510/510M. FAR LESS!
If the issue has been resolved in the 300DC, I have no idea; but at this time the price and scarcity of a clean 300DC still make the Model 250 a BEST VALUE purchase, and worthy of an upgrade... yes, assuming it is possible.
Trust me, some day someone will do this. The vast majority of Model 250 Power Amps are over due for a refurb. An experienced tech is going to pull this off, and it won't require the likes of Nelson Pass to figure it out.:thmbsp:
 
I guess I should ask the other question - I am familiar now with all of the vintage amp recommendations. Does anyone have a recommendation for a newer amp that will pair nicely with my 2275 receiver and Vandy 2Cs, keeping in mind that I may get a preamp in the future?

Update - under $1,000

Thanks again!
 
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I guess I should ask the other question - I am familiar now with all of the vintage amp recommendations. Does anyone have a recommendation for a newer amp that will pair nicely with my 2275 receiver and Vandy 2Cs, keeping in mind that I may get a preamp in the future?

Thanks again!

I believe I recall the mention of the PS-Audio C250.
Very nice... get out your checkbook...:thmbsp:

Oh... Too pricey. Then you better stick with vintage... sorry.
 
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Speaking of the Marantz 500. Did any of you lucky guys get that 500 that was for sale Friday, Aug 31st? I posted that it was available with 3 hours to go but I guess it was against policy to do that since I don't see that post listed. Saturday morning I got up to see what it went for. It sold for $4,040.00. Nice amp with box and check over by Bob Hovland himself, one of the original designers. If I didn't already have two of them, I would have loved to pick up that specimen. Hopefully we'll hear from the purchaser on AK.
 
Speaking of the Marantz 500. Did any of you lucky guys get that 500 that was for sale Friday, Aug 31st? I posted that it was available with 3 hours to go but I guess it was against policy to do that since I don't see that post listed. Saturday morning I got up to see what it went for. It sold for $4,040.00. Nice amp with box and check over by Bob Hovland himself, one of the original designers. If I didn't already have two of them, I would have loved to pick up that specimen. Hopefully we'll hear from the purchaser on AK.

With the description, especially that Bob Hovland had recently checked out that 500, I wouldn't be surprised if that amp went to a Japanese collector, especially when you factor in the price. I'd guess that 500 is long gone...:no:
 
We need a special ops mission to get all that gear back from over there....


With the description, especially that Bob Hovland had recently checked out that 500, I wouldn't be surprised if that amp went to a Japanese collector, especially when you factor in the price. I'd guess that 500 is long gone...:no:
 
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