McIntosh MA12000 Integrated Amplifier Review
- Thread starter joeinid
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Velocityboat
Super Member
Velocityboat
Super Member
joeinid
Well-Known Member
Actually he decided to keep the 303. I’m not too upset because I was having nightmares thinking about getting it back home anyway.
After looking through some recent posts, I’m more interested in the MC830 right now, they are a little easier to manage weight wise and probably sound just as good.
I’ve been thinking about the MC312 as well.
I’ll have to demo whatever I am looking at because every amp is a little different.
For example, I wanted MC1.2KW’s but that was around the time the MC1.25KW were introduced. Assuming the 1.25’s were “better”, I jumped on a pair. Big mistake. I could not take the treble on the 1.25’s. They were harsh and aggressive on top for my ears.
That’s why I love the 303 because it reminds me of the original 1.2kw.
Until I can book a demo, I’m a little gun shy.
After looking through some recent posts, I’m more interested in the MC830 right now, they are a little easier to manage weight wise and probably sound just as good.
I’ve been thinking about the MC312 as well.
I’ll have to demo whatever I am looking at because every amp is a little different.
For example, I wanted MC1.2KW’s but that was around the time the MC1.25KW were introduced. Assuming the 1.25’s were “better”, I jumped on a pair. Big mistake. I could not take the treble on the 1.25’s. They were harsh and aggressive on top for my ears.
That’s why I love the 303 because it reminds me of the original 1.2kw.
Until I can book a demo, I’m a little gun shy.
Velocityboat
Super Member
I have been considering the 1.25KWs but after bi-wire the MC901 seem adequate. I always wondered what a tube amp could add to the presentation.
Your1.25KW experience always stuck with me. My speakers sound good with class D amps. But after recapping the M1000 and doing bi-wire I may hold.
Were you just doing streaming with the 1.25KWs or vinyl too? Did you change streamer and DAC or are you still wyred 4 sound based? I found the DAC and streamer influences the highs in my system.
Your1.25KW experience always stuck with me. My speakers sound good with class D amps. But after recapping the M1000 and doing bi-wire I may hold.
Were you just doing streaming with the 1.25KWs or vinyl too? Did you change streamer and DAC or are you still wyred 4 sound based? I found the DAC and streamer influences the highs in my system.
joeinid
Well-Known Member
I’ve always been streaming, either from all the major services or stored hires files. Those who are predominately vinyl will love the 1.25 or similar sounding newer McIntosh amps. I had SF Strads at the time with Bricasti and Lampizator dacs. My plans for vinyl might eventually happen. Vinyl requires a much higher level of participation. Someday.
I never had Wyred class D but am playing with an M33 NAD integrated. It’s actually pretty nice but was only intended as a summer amp. I’ve been though a bunch of gear and recently sold a pair of Avantgarde duos. I have Franco Serblin Accordo Essence speakers coming very soon and a few others I’m rotating through. Since selling my Duos, I’ll need more powerful amps.
I’m sure your MC901 are amazing. I’ve had several opportunities to pick up MC2301s and could kick myself for not following through. I’m primarily sticking with solid state for the future.
Hopefully I’ll be settling down soon enough.
I never had Wyred class D but am playing with an M33 NAD integrated. It’s actually pretty nice but was only intended as a summer amp. I’ve been though a bunch of gear and recently sold a pair of Avantgarde duos. I have Franco Serblin Accordo Essence speakers coming very soon and a few others I’m rotating through. Since selling my Duos, I’ll need more powerful amps.
I’m sure your MC901 are amazing. I’ve had several opportunities to pick up MC2301s and could kick myself for not following through. I’m primarily sticking with solid state for the future.
Hopefully I’ll be settling down soon enough.
Velocityboat
Super Member
I
I love my Lyngdorf in a second system it always surprises. Putzey and Lyngdorf have long collaborated. The M-33 is surely fine I bet.
https://darko.audio/2020/07/expert-opinion-bruno-putzeys-purifi-hypex-kii-mola-mola/
don’t have MC901s yet but I could see buying them instead of the MC1.25KW, which I always thought I might like as my next pair of Monos. I have read great reviews of 1.25KW and people moving out of the MC1000 seem to like.
I love my Lyngdorf in a second system it always surprises. Putzey and Lyngdorf have long collaborated. The M-33 is surely fine I bet.
https://darko.audio/2020/07/expert-opinion-bruno-putzeys-purifi-hypex-kii-mola-mola/
joeinid
Well-Known Member
I personally would absolutely jump on the MC901 (if I could) because of the versatility and technology. From what I understand, the 901’s are a combination of 2301s and 601s on one chassis. I have not heard them yet but if that’s true, holy cow.
If I were a little stronger, the original 1.2s are still available used and I know their sound character.
Twiii’s MC830 intrigue me. I have some catching up to do.
If I were a little stronger, the original 1.2s are still available used and I know their sound character.
Twiii’s MC830 intrigue me. I have some catching up to do.
audiofun_21
Active Member
Not to resurrect an old thread, but it doesn’t seem like there’s too many people at least on this forum running the MA12000 yet. Struggling for a direction with this system… I ponder about the pros and cons of the current 601 mono system and building onto it with a MEN220 and an as yet unknown preamp. My problem with this approach is that the Mac preamps seem woefully overpriced considering a C2500… with all its DAC teething problems still goes for damn near if not more than our potentially outgoing MAC6700 integrated with the same digital “guts” inside.
By contrast, I figured I would not experience much of a difference in overall presentation between the 6700 at 200w and the 601s (they kind of fell in my lap out of the blue which is what is causing all this recent consternation in our system) on a pair of XR100s. I was quite wrong on that assumption. Far be it from just a few more DBs of volume which is to be expected, it seems like the 601s just have way more reserve and bass control while the 6700 seems to run out of breath a bit with the volume control eclipsing the 50 percent mark.
Which leads me to wonder if the MA12000 is the perfect sweet spot between these two bookends if I were to sell the 601s for a good chunk of the cost. Sure, it’s not 600w… but 350 is still nearly double the capacity of the 6700 and *should* be an end game unit for most any speaker id ever be looking at. As a bonus… there’s tubes plus the upgradable DAC module. And as a double bonus, I’m not stuck forking over the exorbitant ransom McIntosh wants for its mid range pres to make this current system look “complete” and still needing to add the MEN220 to either.
But I definitely need to see more hands on experience with the thing.
By contrast, I figured I would not experience much of a difference in overall presentation between the 6700 at 200w and the 601s (they kind of fell in my lap out of the blue which is what is causing all this recent consternation in our system) on a pair of XR100s. I was quite wrong on that assumption. Far be it from just a few more DBs of volume which is to be expected, it seems like the 601s just have way more reserve and bass control while the 6700 seems to run out of breath a bit with the volume control eclipsing the 50 percent mark.
Which leads me to wonder if the MA12000 is the perfect sweet spot between these two bookends if I were to sell the 601s for a good chunk of the cost. Sure, it’s not 600w… but 350 is still nearly double the capacity of the 6700 and *should* be an end game unit for most any speaker id ever be looking at. As a bonus… there’s tubes plus the upgradable DAC module. And as a double bonus, I’m not stuck forking over the exorbitant ransom McIntosh wants for its mid range pres to make this current system look “complete” and still needing to add the MEN220 to either.
But I definitely need to see more hands on experience with the thing.
jayvis
Addicted Member
If you're determined to go with a one box solution, you can't go wrong with the MA12000. It has more than enough power to get the most out of your XR100's and the preamp/DAC section is stellar. Whether or not you'll hear much difference from your current set-up is purely subjective. What you WILL realize is excellent performance and convenience from the best integrated amp McIntosh has produced to date.
audiofun_21
Active Member
Yes I think that’s the objective. I would be pleased to *not* hear any difference from the current setup with the 601s and have it all in a one box solution. Leaving the MEN220 (this is a difficult room to start with so either system would benefit from it) and maybe some day an MR88 as the completion pieces.
On the other hand, there is something to be said for the cool factor of a pair of monoblocks, even if I ultimately pair them with something like a D150 (I don’t really have any analog sources). I generally buy used anyway and it’ll be a while before any 12000s make it into that pool. So I have some time to decide.
jayvis
Addicted Member
Noted. If you aren't enamored with tube preamp sections, this might be a good option for you. It has the DA1 digital audio module which in my opinion, doesn't sound much different than the DA2. I've heard this integrated a number of times with different McIntosh, Wilson and Focal speakers, and was very impressed. Of course, the new MA9500 is even better. It would be my choice if I was looking for a new integrated because I prefer all solid state.
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audiofun_21
Active Member
Noted. If you aren't enamored with tube preamp sections, this might be a good option for you. It has the DA1 digital audio module which in my opinion, doesn't sound much different than the DA2. I've heard this integrated a number of times with different McIntosh, Wilson and Focal speakers, and was very impressed. Of course, the new MA9500 is even better. It would be my choice if I was looking for a new integrated because I prefer all solid state.
Of course I love the tube section. But of all the “must haves” for me I think that is the one I can do without the most. What has made this complicated as a separates endeavor is the combined cost of one of the desirable preamps plus the MEN220. Which is why the 12000 seems like such a complete option.
However, not to steer this thread too far off course, but I seem to have just stumbled on my solution by accident doing random searches this morning… I have never considered the McIntosh AV processors for any reason because they are laughably expensive, depreciate wildly, and I don’t do home theater. Relating to that second point on depreciation, however. It looks like the MX150 and 151 have dropped to around the 4k range and previously unbeknownst to me, contain the entire RoomPerfect system found in the MEN220. Plus, there’s room for expansion, and even HDMI input capability which is practical since this system all sits under the TV.
So it seems of every desirable aspect, the tube factor is the only thing lost.
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audiofun_21
Active Member
Considered this, and used to be a bit of a 2 channel snob myself when people would talk about receivers vs dedicated integrated amps or separates. But I’ve had such good experiences repurposing outdated TOTL AVRs as great two channel rigs that I’m kind of over that line of thinking.
I think the bigger issue is that AVRs at least are notorious for failures in various components with everything crammed into one box. So long term durability may be an issue here, but at least there’s no amplification going on inside the box so heat management should be ideal and minimal.
