McIntosh MA12000 Integrated Amplifier Review

[jayvis]

Considered this, and used to be a bit of a 2 channel snob myself when people would talk about receivers vs dedicated integrated amps or separates. But I’ve had such good experiences repurposing outdated TOTL AVRs as great two channel rigs that I’m kind of over that line of thinking.

I think the bigger issue is that AVRs at least are notorious for failures in various components with everything crammed into one box. So long term durability may be an issue here, but at least there’s no amplification going on inside the box so heat management should be ideal and minimal.

Are you currently using your MAC6700 as preamp with your MC601's? If you are, I think you'd be taking a step backward. I think that sound processing might be driving your decision.

 

[audiofun_21]

Are you currently using your MAC6700 as preamp with your MC601's? If you are, I think you'd be taking a step backward. I think that sound processing might be driving your decision.

I was briefly. I switched it out to a Sony TA-E2000ESD preamplifier and despite the age of the Sony the output is damn near as good as the 6700 was. Not quite, but probably 85-90 percent which is impressive for a 30 year old unit. I’d guess the MX151 couldn’t possibly be any worse than the Sony.

 

[audiofun_21]

Here’s some encouraging words from one of our resident veterans Twiii at the time when he had a 151 in his system which pretty much echoes my thoughts regarding the potential value proposition:

Then think about this, you can have a 150 for less than the price of a new MEN220 which makes the purchase a no brainer. Having Room Perfect set up properly in both the global and focus positions will be another big plus for your system. A big big plus. The 151 does the best job of accurately producing reed and double reed instruments I have ever heard.( haven't heard any new pre-amps introduced in the last 10 months) You can spot a Steinway piano instantly, and double bass viles have true sound you can only imagine. A 151 will reveal streaming issues so fast you might swear off on the idea. You'll find cartridges using elliptical stylus totally inadequate compared to profiles from Dynavector, Ortofon and Clear Audio. Another thing you''ll find is the differences in sound between Ortofon models, and how Dynavector models are all from the same mold with improvements as you go up the ladder. Kind of like the differences in Mac SS amps and the improvements to the 275 tube amp over the years by Mcintosh.

 

[jayvis]

Sorry, I've never bought into the MEN220 hype.

 

[audiofun_21]

Sorry, I've never bought into the MEN220 hype.

I used to think it was a gimmick as well. I was sitting in the listening room at the local dealer talking to the sales guy there who I’ve known a long time and always shoots straight with me. In fact he’s never actually “sold” me anything. He knows I go in there for what exactly what I want and that’s that. Well… this listening room just so happens to have my a setup VERY close to mine… XR100s, with an MC462 and whatever preamp etc. with a computer that feeds high res music into the system. Just out of curiosity I saw the MEN220 in the stack and I was like does that thing actually do anything or is it just a gimmick. And he very emphatically was like it absolutely does and went on to explain that it’s a very difficult piece to explain the value of *until* the demonstration.

Sure enough, with the system completely flat and the MEN220 out of the loop I thought it sounded pretty damn good. When it was turned on, the transformation pretty much made my jaw drop. To hear the very speakers I was using had that much more to squeeze out blew me away. Especially in my case with a very difficult room. He made a great point that he explains to potential customers spending 15, 20, 30k plus on a system when they initially are reluctant to add it. And that is if you’re spending this much on everything else in your system, why wouldn’t you want to do everything possible to get the most out of the investment. I would go so far as to say that if anything, RP can take great speakers and let them shine as best they possibly can. But it can also likely take less expensive speakers and really transform them by directly addressing their weaknesses as much as is possible to do so.

Honestly, if McIntosh wanted the “killer app” for the NEXT round of Integrated amp updates? Or even just the next update to the 12000… including RP the way they did with the MX processors would be a game changer. But they won’t because they want to sell more boxes and that MEN220, for being 12 damn years old… and for the Lyngdorf processor it was designed around having LONG since been discontinued itself… continues to print easy money. It’s not worth 6 grand to me though (and I’ve never seen one on display at Magnolia/Best Buy so clearly Mac’s biggest customer isn’t sold on it either or doesn’t want to invest their sales people’s demo time and training into it, I can respect that it’s not for everyone). I figured there had to be a life hack way into RP, so we’ll see if this experiment actually works.

 

[damacman]

Personally, I wouldn't buy one of those MX units on a bet. Just too many documented cases of them becoming doorstops ...

 

[jayvis]

I used to think it was a gimmick as well. I was sitting in the listening room at the local dealer talking to the sales guy there who I’ve known a long time and always shoots straight with me. In fact he’s never actually “sold” me anything. He knows I go in there for what exactly what I want and that’s that. Well… this listening room just so happens to have my a setup VERY close to mine… XR100s, with an MC462 and whatever preamp etc. with a computer that feeds high res music into the system. Just out of curiosity I saw the MEN220 in the stack and I was like does that thing actually do anything or is it just a gimmick. And he very emphatically was like it absolutely does and went on to explain that it’s a very difficult piece to explain the value of *until* the demonstration.

Sure enough, with the system completely flat and the MEN220 out of the loop I thought it sounded pretty damn good. When it was turned on, the transformation pretty much made my jaw drop. To hear the very speakers I was using had that much more to squeeze out blew me away. Especially in my case with a very difficult room. He made a great point that he explains to potential customers spending 15, 20, 30k plus on a system when they initially are reluctant to add it. And that is if you’re spending this much on everything else in your system, why wouldn’t you want to do everything possible to get the most out of the investment. I would go so far as to say that if anything, RP can take great speakers and let them shine as best they possibly can. But it can also likely take less expensive speakers and really transform them by directly addressing their weaknesses as much as is possible to do so.

Honestly, if McIntosh wanted the “killer app” for the NEXT round of Integrated amp updates? Or even just the next update to the 12000… including RP the way they did with the MX processors would be a game changer. But they won’t because they want to sell more boxes and that MEN220, for being 12 damn years old… and for the Lyngdorf processor it was designed around having LONG since been discontinued itself… continues to print easy money. It’s not worth 6 grand to me though (and I’ve never seen one on display at Magnolia/Best Buy so clearly Mac’s biggest customer isn’t sold on it either or doesn’t want to invest their sales people’s demo time and training into it, I can respect that it’s not for everyone). I figured there had to be a life hack way into RP, so we’ll see if this experiment actually works.

It's good that you were able to experience the difference but I and other McIntosh fans I know have found that properly integrating a quality sub-bass system has similarly startling and less expensive results. There are other ways to skin that cat.

 

[audiofun_21]

Personally, I wouldn't buy one of those MX units on a bet. Just too many documented cases of them becoming doorstops ...

Yes, this is my main reluctance going that direction. From what research I’ve been doing, the MX150 seems to have had a lot more incidences of random failures reported here than the 151, despite being basically the same hardware inside.

 

[twiiii]

It just proves what some of us feel about reviewers. They have no clue about the products they review. Just so many words to fill space on a page. Sure we know the MA 12000 is a great product. But I don't think he knows which amp has balls. A MC 3500 MK I did. I thought a MC 1000, MC 1201 and its following cousins do and there isn't a tube in any one of them. The early MI 200 did driving speakers from that era.

 

[DogsPart2]

It just proves what some of us feel about reviewers. They have no clue about the products they review. Just so many words to fill space on a page.

Amen, Brother.