dnewma04
The Healer
I think you are underestimating the value of your painting. Ever since the Olson Code hit the bookstores, I think the value of your paintings have jumped.
Most expensive tube amplifiers etc. ;^)
- Thread starter diamondsouled
- Start date
I think you are underestimating the value of your painting. Ever since the Olson Code hit the bookstores, I think the value of your paintings have jumped.
ducati_EL34
Addicted Member
Trying to rationalize the irrational is never easy.But it's a fun way to pass the time while having a bout of insomnia. Which could explain why several of my 'discussions' on this topic are loose at best.
Insomnia?!? Why didn't you say so?
Let me do a quick google search... sweet!
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ducati_EL34
Addicted Member
Yeah I saw those, but, they are a bit pretentious. I preferred the M-60 monoblocks...
A local has these:
I kind of like the locomotive look.
Those were the ones I heard. Not quite as expensive as I remember, maybe I was remembering the cost of the total system. Still more than my budget but they were really interesting amps. I like the look, too but they were truly gigantic.
Here's my take on it. Imagine you are an audio designer. You have a company. You have to sell equipment and you have to have R&D. Most of your product, the bread and butter if you will, has to be within a certain price point. As a designer you want to try to make the best product possible with cost being no object.
Products designed for the bread and butter market will benefit by R&D from the cost no object design projects.
The cost no object projects are subsidized by the uber wealthy. The uber wealthy get the state art from the best designers. This is not that different from buying a work of fine art for enjoyment and investment.
Though the cost no object product suffers from being way overpriced, the revenue they bring in probably keeps these companies alive and able to design for the rest of us.
I have a sneaking suspicion, that though these very special amps will initially lose half of their value going out the door, in a hundred years or so, they will be rare fine artifacts from a time long gone by.
Another point. The best designers are very special people. They are artists who are as talented as any artist. I believe they deserve to be compensated for their hard work and extraordinary talent. I suspect that most of them are just doing okay, and not much better then the well to do that frequent this forum.
Cheers and good morning.
Products designed for the bread and butter market will benefit by R&D from the cost no object design projects.
The cost no object projects are subsidized by the uber wealthy. The uber wealthy get the state art from the best designers. This is not that different from buying a work of fine art for enjoyment and investment.
Though the cost no object product suffers from being way overpriced, the revenue they bring in probably keeps these companies alive and able to design for the rest of us.
I have a sneaking suspicion, that though these very special amps will initially lose half of their value going out the door, in a hundred years or so, they will be rare fine artifacts from a time long gone by.
Another point. The best designers are very special people. They are artists who are as talented as any artist. I believe they deserve to be compensated for their hard work and extraordinary talent. I suspect that most of them are just doing okay, and not much better then the well to do that frequent this forum.
Cheers and good morning.
ducati_EL34
Addicted Member
Exactly what R&D are we talking about? This is technology that is 60 years old.
R&D isnt just adding more tubes to the same old Williamson circuit.
Hopefully these represent more than the largest shoe size available. If not, then IMO they are ridiculous and are just another hook for the big fish to swing from.
:scratch2: They are shiny.
There are HANDFULLS of amplifiers made one at a time by American Craftsmen with circuit inovations and "trick of the weeks" aplenty.
Expensive but not over the top by any means.
No need to line the pockets of the rich or buy an ascot, Im sure there are guys right here on AK that can brew up some astounding stuff (Im sure of it because Ive seen it) for quite a bit less.
Whats funny is that both these ways come with the exclusive hand made attribute and the outstanding performance attribute but one costs about $595k more than the other.
Does anyone here remember the Bob Carver vs. the Audio media shoot out of the late 80's. David beat Goliath again.
..
Hopefully these represent more than the largest shoe size available. If not, then IMO they are ridiculous and are just another hook for the big fish to swing from.
:scratch2: They are shiny.
There are HANDFULLS of amplifiers made one at a time by American Craftsmen with circuit inovations and "trick of the weeks" aplenty.
Expensive but not over the top by any means.
No need to line the pockets of the rich or buy an ascot, Im sure there are guys right here on AK that can brew up some astounding stuff (Im sure of it because Ive seen it) for quite a bit less.
Whats funny is that both these ways come with the exclusive hand made attribute and the outstanding performance attribute but one costs about $595k more than the other.
Does anyone here remember the Bob Carver vs. the Audio media shoot out of the late 80's. David beat Goliath again.
..
shelly_d
Not An Audiophool
I tend to agree with that. The last new ideas I have seen in the last few years that I would consider true advancements are:
The Bruce Rozenblit patent for OTL amplification
John Broskie's Aikido amp circuit for noise reduction
and
Solid state current limiter in the cathode of a 2 triode phase splitter (don't remember where I saw that one)
There may be others I'm forgetting (I've the memory of a dead elephant these days) but in these ideas there is true improvement in the state of the art and none of them are being sold in anything like an unaffordable way.
Today we consider Van Gogh to be a master painter. In his day he was a commercial disaster. Making a functional object pretty may be art, and it may be salable to someone with more money then brains, but it does not mean that we all must give reverence to it as some form of art. Perhaps history will prove me wrong just as Van Gogh's genius became apparent only after his death, but for the moment I still see no reason on this God's earth that these collections of electronica should be priced in the stratosphere as these are.
Shelly_D
ducati_EL34
Addicted Member
Well even the Atma Sphere, which is an OTL design, is nothing new, though probably implemented better than any previous OTL amp.
I think that is what people are paying for. That, and the ability to say, "this amp is one of a kind, and it cost me $600K."
Now to apply this to the auto world. If you are into a three seat ultra sports car, dropping 1MIL on a MClaren F1, that is built to order, now there you are getting your money's worth.
Stereo_type
Active Member
From a post, early on:
If you don't think they're worth $125K of badass, wait 'til you read this bombshell:
A minor financial correction for you there: $125K only buys ONE :tears: of those two monoblocks, so if you'd like STEREO with that order, please plan to spend $250K! :yes:
If you don't think they're worth $125K of badass, wait 'til you read this bombshell:
A minor financial correction for you there: $125K only buys ONE :tears: of those two monoblocks, so if you'd like STEREO with that order, please plan to spend $250K! :yes:
dnewma04
The Healer
Unless you aren't interested in cars, than that's an equally obnoxious purchase. Or, maybe someone loves cars and would rather save 900k and get a ZR1 that would probably beat it around a track.
And in the world of art, paying 10M for a Picasso is going to get your money's worth for someone who loves art and always dreamed of owning one. For the next guy, getting a poster of the same painting in a nice frame is the only way that would be worthwhile. While the next guy may think Picasso couldn't paint for crap and wouldn't dream of even putting a print of the painting up on his wall.
Enthusiasts who appreciate the "finer things" in their area of interest are willing to pay a hefty premium.
ducati_EL34
Addicted Member
No, a ZR1 is not going to beat an F1 around the track, and no, it is not an obnoxious purchase. My point was there was REAL R&D in the making of the F1. It was "ground up" design. The only thing borrowed was the V12 BMW engine, and even it was is heavily modded.
I think the scarcity of Picasso's work and the fact it has stood the test time has something to do with it's value.
dnewma04
The Healer
McLaren F1s didn't brake particularly well and didn't turn nearly as well as most of their competition. They were very powerful and light, so they had outstanding acceleration and did well on tracks. But, afaik, on larger tracks like the Ring, an Enzo would beat it and the ZR1 beat the Enzo by about 4 seconds on the ring. So, I'd say the ZR1 would be in the same league in anything but top speed. Acceleration to 60 is about the same at 3.2 seconds. Quarter mile is actually a bit quicker by most times (10.85-11.1) for the ZR1, 11.1-11.2 for the mclaren. So, that ground up technology can be beat for 1/10th the price, with antiquated technology. Still worth it? I presume about 1/100th of 1% of the population would say yes, absolutely worth it.
The art analogy was just to show that different people are going to have different ideas on the value of things. The purchaser of a 600k pair of tube amps will probably hear things that make them worthwhile to them. A purchaser of an F1 will probably feel things about the car that make it worthwhile to them.
My dad has a tractor that he purchased, it's moderately rare, completely useless as a tractor, easily surpassed by most any modern tractor near it's size. It's worth well over 100k. Who will spend that money? Just a handful of collectors or john deere enthusiasts.
The art analogy was just to show that different people are going to have different ideas on the value of things. The purchaser of a 600k pair of tube amps will probably hear things that make them worthwhile to them. A purchaser of an F1 will probably feel things about the car that make it worthwhile to them.
My dad has a tractor that he purchased, it's moderately rare, completely useless as a tractor, easily surpassed by most any modern tractor near it's size. It's worth well over 100k. Who will spend that money? Just a handful of collectors or john deere enthusiasts.
ducati_EL34
Addicted Member
It also held the record for world's fastest production car, at 240 MPH, until last year. It stills holds the speed record for production cars, that are normally aspirated. So to go that speed, it would be worth it.
dnewma04
The Healer
Veyron topped it well before last year for the fastest production car. I think last year it upped the ante with a top speed of nearly 270mph. In any case, we are spinning well off-topic. If some rich folk decides that a pair of 600k amps sound better than a 10k amp and the combination of performance and looks make it worthwhile to buy at 600k, they are worth 600k. And if they are happy with the performance for the price paid, they are a good value.
TerryO
Super Member
Dave,
I believe you're correct. I've been painting the railing of my balcony, I wonder what that'll bring?
While the money hasn't actually started to pour in yet, I'm planning on purchasing a couple of those $600,000 amps to biamp my Minimus 7's!
Best Regards,
TerryO
shelly_d
Not An Audiophool
...While the money hasn't actually started to pour in yet, I'm planning on purchasing a couple of those $600,000 amps to biamp my Minimus 7's!
LOL :lmao::lmao::lmao::huge::huge:
I've gone faster on Delta. And got free peanuts.
I fail to see how the super exotic sports car is any different than the super-expensive amps to the person who buys it. What are the chances that the billionaire buying it is going to take it up to 240? He just wants it because he is into cars, and can buy it. That's all this is. Regardless of how we try (and I've tried and failed) to put logic behind these things, there's no logic to it. A billionaire buying one of these things is no different than an AK member buying an SX-1980, except that the high-dollar amp stresses the billionaire's wallet less, relatively speaking. You can buy a pro amp that can give you the watts of the of 1980 for much less...but it isn't about that. It's about having that exact thing, for which there is no combination of identical specs that will replace it. It has to be an SX-1980. Just like whoever buys these amps, wants some big, tacky, gigantic one of a kind music-delivery device.