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Moving from fine line to elliptical

ripblade said:
I've played more than a few thousand classical albums with many different cartridges. My Grado Blue tracks better than my Nag110, but neither are exceptional. To get exceptional you need ML, preferably on a boron cantilever.
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No argument with that, my best trackers are a Soundsmith Voice and Fritz Gyger 2 retipped Grado G2. They also let me know sooner if the grooves aren’t perfect sooner than an elliptical…..so, trade offs
 
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lsipes1965 said:
No argument with that, my best trackers are a Soundsmith Voice and Fritz Gyger 2 retipped Grado G2. They also let me know sooner if the grooves aren’t perfect sooner than an elliptical…..so, trade offs
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Amazing how 2 people can have such different experiences. IME, a brand new microridge can make new an old record deemed worn by an elliptical. But it depnds on the the pressing quality, the lacquer cut, the length of programme, the condition/cleanness of the record.
 
ripblade said:
Amazing how 2 people can have such different experiences. IME, a brand new microridge can make new an old record deemed worn by an elliptical. But it depnds on the the pressing quality, the lacquer cut, the length of programme, the condition/cleanness of the record.
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Oh, maybe not….I’ve got some records I picked up used back in the 90’s the line contacts play cleaner than elliptical, but, you know I’d actually have to start tracking that to be more accurate with this opinion. It‘s not dialysis
 
lsipes1965 said:
Oh, maybe not….I’ve got some records I picked up used back in the 90’s the line contacts play cleaner than elliptical, but, you know I’d actually have to start tracking that to be more accurate with this opinion. It‘s not dialysis
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It certainly isn't lol.

I don't track it either, just long experience...
 
adnick said:
In my experience, even on albums with over 27 minutes play time, it‘s poor cartridge setup or the tonearm maximum error/distortion is too high…..

VR
Andy
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Well, I’m sensitive to IGD and sibilance, I align my own cartridges, and sometimes you just get one that has it when the next one doesn’t. I don’t really know why. The Nag MP110 has it, the Grado Black3 doesn’t.
 
lsipes1965 said:
Well, I’m sensitive to IGD and sibilance, I align my own cartridges, and sometimes you just get one that has it when the next one doesn’t. I don’t really know why. The Nag MP110 has it, the Grado Black3 doesn’t.
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Understand, have no experience with the MP 110…
 
ripblade said:
I've played more than a few thousand classical albums with many different cartridges. My Grado Blue tracks better than my Nag110, but neither are exceptional. To get exceptional you need ML, preferably on a boron cantilever.
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Let's go with that BWAAA HA HA HA HA, ya right.
 
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adnick said:
In my experience, even on albums with over 27 minutes play time, it‘s poor cartridge setup or the tonearm maximum error/distortion is too high…..

VR
Andy
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Exactly, it's been my experience over more than 5decades spinning vinyl it's almost always user error in cartridge setup if experiencing IGD or sibilance.

It can also be things like a worn or defective stone, a poorly designed or defective tonearm, a cartridge/arm mismatch etc. But still my experience shows it's typically user error in installation with a new cartridge.

One of my current favorite budget LOMC cartridges has a "bonded" elliptical, OH the horror of it all lol.
 
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My calculations show that the MP200 is a better match to the SME non improved tonearm.
The 2m bronze might be a "better" cartridge under certain conditions , but on the SME the MP200 will perform better, and by its nature (MP200) , it is not a bright cartridge among other (good) things.
 
lsipes1965 said:
Cheapest cart I’ve bought in the last 3 years was a $99 Grado Black3. It’s got an inexpensive elliptical and has NO, zero, zilch IGD. Can’t always go by diamond cut.
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Just out of curiosity, which tonearm was used for the Grado?
 
I’m at the point now where it’s hard to remember what IGD sounds like. I don’t get distortion anywhere in the music tracks, unless it’s from damaged grooves. That’s for 0.5/.6/.7 mil conicals, 4/3/2x7 ellipticals, HE, LAC, LC, or MR tips.

But I am surprised Nagaoka even sells a 4x7 elliptical, bonded or nude; it was a very early elliptical. The Pickering 400D stylus is a 4x7, debuting in the 1960s with the Phase IV, then XV15, to name just one brand.
 
HamboneF18 said:
I’m at the point now where it’s hard to remember what IGD sounds like. I don’t get distortion anywhere in the music tracks, unless it’s from damaged grooves. That’s for 0.5/.6/.7 mil conicals, 4/3/2x7 ellipticals, HE, LAC, LC, or MR tips
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HamboneF18 said:
Nor the outermost grooves, nor the mid-record grooves. I hear conical smear throughout the record. I still play conicals (I have many!) but with the acknowledgment of their limitations, on older records (pre-1960) and later (1961-1990) and modern records (2014-2023).
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HamboneF18 said:
I listen mostly to orchestral music, acoustic guitar, piano, violin, etc. That’s where I hear the smearing of massed strings, brass, cymbals using conical tips.
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What's the difference between 'smearing' and distortion? To me, they're the same thing.
 
I have similar concerns with sibilance and harshness as you, and also happen to have a Nagaoka mp 200. Actually using it in rotation right now. It is one of my favorite mi carts or just one of my favorite carts. It’s not nearly as detailed as the mp 500 but it’s not nearly as expensive.

I found it does have a little more midrange emphasis than my Empire 2000z and was just a little bit disappointed with that. However, after upgrading preamp with a heavily modified bugle2 built from scratch pcb, and some GR kit MTM encores, I don’t hear that anymore.

I think you are going to like it. Don’t have or never experienced your Bronze 2M but have heard comparisons posted up. If you are playing fairly well maintained records, I don’t think you’ll be disappointed. Bronze will do better with worn records.

Please give us some feedback once you have the mp 200 set up and broken in somewhat.
 
desertrat748 said:
Don’t have or never experienced your Bronze 2M but have heard comparisons posted up. If you are playing fairly well maintained records, I don’t think you’ll be disappointed. Bronze will do better with worn records.
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Good that can repeat others opinions.
Maybe you might hear a Bz before hazarding a guess about its performance.

I have a 2M Black & it is quite capable.
The 2M Bz is similar.
 
Bob in WI said:
Good that can repeat others opinions.
Maybe you might hear a Bz before hazarding a guess about its performance.

I have a 2M Black & it is quite capable.
The 2M Bz is similar.
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Nice that you are able to try and put me down with some disrespectful comment Hope you feel better about yourself.

I just happen to have a LC retip job on the a 2000z S915e that is like the Bronze. Since I have the MP 200 and a LC, and have compared them with worn albums, I can actually make my statement from experience.

But nice try though! Think about getting some help…
 
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