W9TR
Super Member
Thanks for the correction! I think my 17D3 must have a Ruby cantilever.
moving magnet vs moving coil phono cartridges
- Thread starter mzeitlin3348
- Start date
Yes.
Moving mass is always an important part for transducers as well. Imagine the magnet structure of your speaker drivers as part of the moving mass.
I've used many Shure cartridges in the past. Most recently a M97. Not even close to either MC I have in terms of overall transparency.
One challenge is their lower output. An equally important consideration is your phono preamp. The "goldilocks" solution I've used with different carts and preamps is using a mid output MC with a two stage preamp having higher than usual gain. That obviates the need for a separate head amp or step up transformer.
By looking at the manual to the KCT, it appears to be a line stage only. What do you use for phono?
And much depends on what stylus your using. Didn't that cartridge mostly come supplied with an elliptical profile stylus. You could look around and see if you can't find a more advanced shaped stylus.
If, your trying to find a reason to justify that your cart is as good as most MC carts because you just don't want to spend the extra money that many MC carts cost perhaps a simple upgrade in stylus profile might make you feel more comfortable with getting a different sound and not spending the extra money.
If your happy with the way your cart sounds as is, I wouldn't worry about the differences, save your money and just spend more time spinning records.
markd51
Nyuk Nyuk
All goes hand in hand, the improvement of every aspect of the chain does take you to a higher level.
For example, let's say you want to only climb the MM or MI (Moving Iron) ladder.
Sure, you could easily spend $1000 for such. And they might be very outstanding Cartridges within their own right, not saying otherwise.
Pair it with a 1974 $75 Garrard Plastic Table, and/or running out to $250 Sansui 350a receiver's built in phono stage, which the phono stage likely cost about $5-$10 to manufacture, well, you get the picture. There has to be a relative relation between such components, and such usually spells $$$. With the combo I mention above, commonly back in the day, you'd be looking to use-need about a $40-$85 Cartridge tops. Back then, to spend $250 for the cartridge on this particular combo would've been crazy.
I think the silk hat on a pig applies in this particular instance. Not to say that the sound would be worse with the better cartridge, but you might not have extracted the performance of the better cartridge to hear much, if any sonic benefit
Dipping one's toes into MC-Land can cost some serious coin.
For example, let's say you want to only climb the MM or MI (Moving Iron) ladder.
Sure, you could easily spend $1000 for such. And they might be very outstanding Cartridges within their own right, not saying otherwise.
Pair it with a 1974 $75 Garrard Plastic Table, and/or running out to $250 Sansui 350a receiver's built in phono stage, which the phono stage likely cost about $5-$10 to manufacture, well, you get the picture. There has to be a relative relation between such components, and such usually spells $$$. With the combo I mention above, commonly back in the day, you'd be looking to use-need about a $40-$85 Cartridge tops. Back then, to spend $250 for the cartridge on this particular combo would've been crazy.
I think the silk hat on a pig applies in this particular instance. Not to say that the sound would be worse with the better cartridge, but you might not have extracted the performance of the better cartridge to hear much, if any sonic benefit
Dipping one's toes into MC-Land can cost some serious coin.
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Calypte
Temecula, California
I think you're just going to have to take the leap to find out for yourself. Choose something that is popular here, but probably not too expensive. You might also contemplate whether your arm is a good match for whatever MC you choose or whether it's suited for any of them.
I have 3 cartridges. Ortofon 2M Black, SoundSmith Aida, and Grado Sonata 1. All work with ny MM phono stage in my preamp. Would I like to try MC? Sure, but to do it I have the cost of a cartridge and then the cost of a quality MC step up transformer of some type. In my case, just not worth the expense with what I currently have.
mprince
Super Member
One solution could be a HOMC, there are some compromises, but this would not require upstream modifications.
And to offer a personal perspective, I've used many MM/MI cartridges in the past, I got into LOMC a few years ago with a fairly modest investment (SUT) and have not looked back.
You won't know until you know.
I was completely satisfied staying with my MM/MI cartridges, so also didn't see a reason to go that route, until I did. It actually happened by mistake, purchased an upper tier Kenny table and the cartridge happened to be a moving coil. My main preamp for close to 30yrs supported MC, even has different loading options, I just never took advantage of them until thrown in my face lol.
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Check out seller cartridge_retipping-5 (former member Needlestein). He offers some excellent values for retipped cartridges. Most upgraded with nude and/or fine line-style styli as well as improved cantilevers.
He retipped my Denon DL301 and it sounds awesome.
MisterDK
Addicted Member
I’m presently listing to one of the “bargain” MC’s - and I like it. From what I have listened to, I think it compares to some of the best MM/MI carts in the same or somewhat higher price range. I’d certainly be happy with this same MC cartridge on a couple more of my turntables, too. The cart is an AT-OC9ML/II. It sounds -very- good - and not just for the price, which is a deal.
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I think you may be right in your speculation as to why a SUT can sound so good. A similar thing may apply at the other end of the frequency spectrum too - the relatively modest LF performance of a typical SUT can act as a subsonic noise filter, saving the phonostage from amplifying unwanted LF garbage.
twiiii
Lunatic Member
V-15. iv and v MR. were great tracking cartridges at the time of production. But as with anything mechanical they deteriorate over time, so I would pass and look around for a current cartridge you can afford and be able to obtain OEM replacement parts. I owned V-15 V MR and Stanton 981 HZL. Both sounded good but when I had wiped my last Stanton stylus I had to go on a search which ended up me choosing a 20 X 2 HO. Dynavector with a 10X5 I owned previously as a back up. I enjoy the Dynavector, it reminds me of my Ortofon SL 20 and MC 20. and tracks as well as my Stanton did. I have never heard my 20X 2 mistrack and it tracks the 90 band on my Ortofon test record almost perfectly at 2.2 grams. Fortunately I bought mine when and where I could wheel and deal. Today they have gone up in price a significant amount. I think I paid in the high $700's or low $800's, where today they are pushing $1200 hard, and at some places even more. I wish you good luck in your search. As always the issue becomes after so many hours you either have to have your MC rebuilt by the factory or buy a new one. That will be my issue in a few more years. I have always wanted an XX-2. Will I afford it though?
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KentTeffeteller
Gimpus Stereophilus!
If you'd gotten a Stanton 680 or 681A medium force tracking stylus, you'd have had better performance with your Dual.
This topic is only troll bait if you are a troll-worthy member.
I find it interesting. Forces me to take stock of my priorities in this hobby.
Just happens I’m listening to a Shure V15 4 cartridge. Really enjoying it. So, do I want to “invest” $1,000 or so (more??!) for a MC cart and setup? Hmmm...
6 months ago I visited a buddy with a nice system. McIntosh tube amps, etc. He and I were working together to repair a pair of VMPS speakers. He has the Denon DL103 cart on his table. It really sounded nice. For giggles, I’d brought a few of my carts on headshells, with protractors for his table. His system is far more high end than mine. We checked his alignment, made a minor adjustment. Great sound!
He wanted to hear what I brought. I had with me the NAD 9300 cart, the ADC 10E MKIV, and the Shure M97HE. This was for me to hear these through his system.
Sounded great, just like it should!
Comparisons? The ADC 10E MKIV sounded better than the 103, in terms of imaging, detail, air, tight and dynamic bass, and well focused clear treble. The other carts were awfully darned close! Just different, really.
From that experience, I’ll stay with my MM and MI carts. Sure, I can get better if I spend a lot more money. But that’s pretty much true with every part of the chain, isn’t it?
So, the choice is yours. But I do recommend finding folks in your area who share your love of audio. Listen and compare. Easier and cheaper on someone else’s dime. But it’s also great fun, and for me, humbling! Some truly great systems out there!
Not mine! Maybe one day!
VMPS needing some love!
I find it interesting. Forces me to take stock of my priorities in this hobby.
Just happens I’m listening to a Shure V15 4 cartridge. Really enjoying it. So, do I want to “invest” $1,000 or so (more??!) for a MC cart and setup? Hmmm...
6 months ago I visited a buddy with a nice system. McIntosh tube amps, etc. He and I were working together to repair a pair of VMPS speakers. He has the Denon DL103 cart on his table. It really sounded nice. For giggles, I’d brought a few of my carts on headshells, with protractors for his table. His system is far more high end than mine. We checked his alignment, made a minor adjustment. Great sound!
He wanted to hear what I brought. I had with me the NAD 9300 cart, the ADC 10E MKIV, and the Shure M97HE. This was for me to hear these through his system.
Sounded great, just like it should!
Comparisons? The ADC 10E MKIV sounded better than the 103, in terms of imaging, detail, air, tight and dynamic bass, and well focused clear treble. The other carts were awfully darned close! Just different, really.
From that experience, I’ll stay with my MM and MI carts. Sure, I can get better if I spend a lot more money. But that’s pretty much true with every part of the chain, isn’t it?
So, the choice is yours. But I do recommend finding folks in your area who share your love of audio. Listen and compare. Easier and cheaper on someone else’s dime. But it’s also great fun, and for me, humbling! Some truly great systems out there!
Not mine! Maybe one day!
VMPS needing some love!
tabarddn51
Super Member
Well, You really don't give all the story when you ask for recommendations, You also need to tell us what arm you are using. It is impossible to recommend a cart if you do not know what arm it is going to be used on. A V15 need a low mass arm with an Eff mass of 8 grams to play properly, whereas a Denon 103 needs a high Eff Mass arm of around 22 - 26 grams. In between are the medium mass arms that can play the majority of carts, however for some strange reason most people either prefer carts that require a low mass arms or high mass arms. Also do you want to buy new or would you consider S/H.
Cheers
Cheers
HighFi.ED
Well-Known Member
It really depends on the Price Range. If your budget is $300 I think you’ll find a better MM Cartridge than a MC Cartridge. If you have have a budget around $600 or higher you can find a lot more MC Cartridges that are better than MM Cartridges. Like some other people have mention your best bet is to give one a try and compare for yourself.