MS300 Review on Six Moons
- Thread starter Number 9
- Start date
Register to hide this ad
Victor
Super Member
Thanks for the link,
I have been giving some thought to getting one of these to record my LPs. The review answered a lot of my questions and added to what I thought the MS300 could do. I do wish they would have wrote more on the sound quality.
Also from the open box pictures it looks like the hard drive would be a snap to upgrade. I don't know if the software will allow a hard drive change though.
Victor
I have been giving some thought to getting one of these to record my LPs. The review answered a lot of my questions and added to what I thought the MS300 could do. I do wish they would have wrote more on the sound quality.
Also from the open box pictures it looks like the hard drive would be a snap to upgrade. I don't know if the software will allow a hard drive change though.
Victor
Victor said:
I was interested to note than they used the SPDIF output to run their AN DAC, and only tried it out as a CD player toward the end. I've been asking Ron-C what it would be like as a source for an MDA-1000 instead of an MCD-1000. So far, the consensus seems to be it would work well.
Upgrading the HD might be tricky, because the Linux operating system is on that HD. The good news is that it's easy to try. Just buy a 500Gb HD, do a complete disk copy using a utility, and give it a shot!
JimmyNeutron
Super Member
Postscript:
Under the McIntosh MS300 hood lives an Escient Fireball E2-300 Music Server. By choosing Escient for its OEM, McIntosh has made a good choice. Why reinvent the wheel when a company with long-term music server experience is close at hand? Escient is one of the many makes -- Denon, Marantz, Boston Acoustic, Snell, Rio and McIntosh Labs are others -- that are part of the D&M Holdings conglomerate of which Philips is one the main shareholders.
$5100.00 for a unit that is cloned by several other fine companies?!? I'm sorry but that's a hard pill to swallow. I like music servers, and I love McIntosh, but from a purely monetary view the MS300 seems way over priced for what it is - an Escient. Escient released a $1000.00 music server recently. Add a 300 gig HD for about $150.00 and what do you have? Figure it out. Music servers are a dime a dozen now-a-days, even with the build quality of Mac. Just by looking at the interior photos on the MS300 I see that even that is not McIntosh standard - it's regular japanese standard build ( I didn't even see the defacto McIntosh transformer in there ).
I'm not in any way bashing the MS300. I'm just saying it costs way too much for what is essentially a japanese clone of many other music servers. Oh well. :thumbsdn:
Under the McIntosh MS300 hood lives an Escient Fireball E2-300 Music Server. By choosing Escient for its OEM, McIntosh has made a good choice. Why reinvent the wheel when a company with long-term music server experience is close at hand? Escient is one of the many makes -- Denon, Marantz, Boston Acoustic, Snell, Rio and McIntosh Labs are others -- that are part of the D&M Holdings conglomerate of which Philips is one the main shareholders.
$5100.00 for a unit that is cloned by several other fine companies?!? I'm sorry but that's a hard pill to swallow. I like music servers, and I love McIntosh, but from a purely monetary view the MS300 seems way over priced for what it is - an Escient. Escient released a $1000.00 music server recently. Add a 300 gig HD for about $150.00 and what do you have? Figure it out. Music servers are a dime a dozen now-a-days, even with the build quality of Mac. Just by looking at the interior photos on the MS300 I see that even that is not McIntosh standard - it's regular japanese standard build ( I didn't even see the defacto McIntosh transformer in there ).
I'm not in any way bashing the MS300. I'm just saying it costs way too much for what is essentially a japanese clone of many other music servers. Oh well. :thumbsdn:
Number 9
Well-Known Member
You raise a good point. I see more competition in music servers. Its a growing trend. So all that competition is bound to drive the price down eventually, perhaps even with McIntosh.JimmyNeutron said:
But another way to look at it perhaps, is that the new MCD201 is at a $3K price point, so adding a hard disk, networking capability and integration will likely drive a Music Server by McIntosh to a higher price point. I realize though the MS300 is based on Escient innards.
JimmyNeutron said:
We would need Ron-C to get this right, but I think that the Escient server is not cloned by anyone but Mc, and I do not believe it's a straight clone.
I believe Mc starts with the Escient, then changes DACs and other things to wind up with the MS-300. No doubt it's a high-margin item for them, but frankly, the charing of technology between Mc, Denon and Marantz should be a good thing for all in the long run.
Ironic that Mc and Marantz wind up owned by the same company.
Last edited:
JimmyNeutron
Super Member
Well I'm in a quandry of sorts. I, as well as many of us here, are big McIntosh fans. I like to buy McIntosh - McIntosh build quality, McIntosh components (to an expected degree), McIntosh as much as possible. That way I know where my money went. If I am in the market for a music server, and I see the Denon, Marantz, Escient, and McIntosh - and they are all the same, guts, dac's, and all, then why would I spend a premium more for the McIntosh? I mean really, did you see the inards? 1 pc board, 1 computer rom drive, 1 Maxtor (off the shelf) hard drive! That's it! I really doubt McIntosh had some design implementations on that board. Heck, not even the familiar McIntosh hand wound by a little old lady transformer is anywhere in that box. At this point someone has to ask the question: Why should I pay that much more for this product if it really is NOT a McIntosh product?
I have been thinking about getting me a music server as a christmas present to myself and the family. There are many, many out there, some very cheap. I love Mac, and I trust them, but upon closer inpection of the MS300 it seems my trust would be misplaced. In buying the MS300 would I be placing my trust in McIntosh? or in Escient? An Escient Fireball 80 is only $1000.00. Granted it's only an 80 gig hard drive versus the Mac's 300 gig, but you could add a 300 gig hard drive to the Escient for $150.00!! I don't know. Maybe Mac has some good reasons why they put this unit at such a high price point. I just can't see it.
I have been thinking about getting me a music server as a christmas present to myself and the family. There are many, many out there, some very cheap. I love Mac, and I trust them, but upon closer inpection of the MS300 it seems my trust would be misplaced. In buying the MS300 would I be placing my trust in McIntosh? or in Escient? An Escient Fireball 80 is only $1000.00. Granted it's only an 80 gig hard drive versus the Mac's 300 gig, but you could add a 300 gig hard drive to the Escient for $150.00!! I don't know. Maybe Mac has some good reasons why they put this unit at such a high price point. I just can't see it.
Last edited:
JimmyNeutron
Super Member
Nego, I understand you have an MS300. Tell me, how does the GUI look? I understand it is a Linux based OS. Does it look like McIntosh reworked it or is it a straight linux OS. I'm curious to know if it's the same OS that the Escient, Denon, Marantz, etc uses.
I'll chime in here with my valuable opinion. 
I sorta did this with a Shuttle computer a couple of years ago, routing the digital output from the computer with a 200g drive to my ht receiver. Was sort of amusing for a little while but I quickly became weary of having to turn the tv on, boot the computer and fire up win media. To say noting of the pita of loading 40 cds (that's as far as I got) on the computer. Yeah, yeah, I know it's really not the same thing but it's similar.
I couldn't get past the feeling that it's a solution searching for a problem. I ended up getting a Sony ES 400 disc changer (cd, not dvd) and loaded it with copies of cds so I get the cd text displayed on the lcd panel of the changer. Also, I set up an Excel matrix with artist, cd and cd # in the tray.
I'm sorry but I never could figure out what all the hoopla was about these music boxes. Call me a curmudgeon. BTW, the computer is sitting on the floor, unplugged. Just my $.02.
Murray
I sorta did this with a Shuttle computer a couple of years ago, routing the digital output from the computer with a 200g drive to my ht receiver. Was sort of amusing for a little while but I quickly became weary of having to turn the tv on, boot the computer and fire up win media. To say noting of the pita of loading 40 cds (that's as far as I got) on the computer. Yeah, yeah, I know it's really not the same thing but it's similar.I couldn't get past the feeling that it's a solution searching for a problem. I ended up getting a Sony ES 400 disc changer (cd, not dvd) and loaded it with copies of cds so I get the cd text displayed on the lcd panel of the changer. Also, I set up an Excel matrix with artist, cd and cd # in the tray.
I'm sorry but I never could figure out what all the hoopla was about these music boxes. Call me a curmudgeon. BTW, the computer is sitting on the floor, unplugged. Just my $.02.
Murray
jrsystems
Super Member
First of all an Escient E2-200 is $3000 and an E2-400 is $4000 versus $5100 for an MS300. An Escient SE-80 is in no way comparable. So if we put the 300gb MS300 midway between the 200gb and 400gd Escient units, let's call it $3500 versus $5100 for the Mc or a $1600 difference. A lot, but not insane. The Escient is covered by a one year warranty, the McIntosh a three year warranty. If you consider warranty, resale value, and looks that match the rest of your Mc rack, we are getting pretty close to justifying the $1600 difference. I thought the MS300 uses superior Mc DAC's, but I may be mistaken. Hopefully Ron C can clarify this important point.
I have used many different music servers and PC music extenders including an early HP unit that never worked, a Turtle Beach Audiotron that never worked, and currently a Linksys Windows Media Extender that works okay but is very buggy. I adore my iPods which work wonderfully (my first iPod is what got me into hard drive music in the first place), but do not come close to audiophle level quality in a big system. In stark contrast, my MS300 works flawlessly. The interface is terrific, intuitive, and very fast/responsive. Ripping from my Sony 400 disc changer is a Godsend. But most importantly, the sound is outstanding. For all of you skeptics, when you use a great music server with equal to CD sound and a great interface and never again have to get up and change CD's or albums again, you may never go back. This is the future, enjoy it!
JR
I have used many different music servers and PC music extenders including an early HP unit that never worked, a Turtle Beach Audiotron that never worked, and currently a Linksys Windows Media Extender that works okay but is very buggy. I adore my iPods which work wonderfully (my first iPod is what got me into hard drive music in the first place), but do not come close to audiophle level quality in a big system. In stark contrast, my MS300 works flawlessly. The interface is terrific, intuitive, and very fast/responsive. Ripping from my Sony 400 disc changer is a Godsend. But most importantly, the sound is outstanding. For all of you skeptics, when you use a great music server with equal to CD sound and a great interface and never again have to get up and change CD's or albums again, you may never go back. This is the future, enjoy it!
JR
The GUI is fine. Works well, and I can play with it from any machine in the house.
The shuttle computer doesn't even come close. No remote control, no playlists. Buy a cheap 400CD changer and let it go for the weekend...all done. Then delete the tracks you don't like.
I agree with jrsystems. Buy it, you'll like it. And as for the price, you can get them at 25% off easily, 30% if you try hard. I paid $3,500 and it's one of my best purchases ever.
The shuttle computer doesn't even come close. No remote control, no playlists. Buy a cheap 400CD changer and let it go for the weekend...all done. Then delete the tracks you don't like.
I agree with jrsystems. Buy it, you'll like it. And as for the price, you can get them at 25% off easily, 30% if you try hard. I paid $3,500 and it's one of my best purchases ever.
JimmyNeutron
Super Member
Aside from a Fireball-80 not having the same hard drive size as the Mac, how much different is it really? Does it play the same formats as the Mac? Does it have the same *usefull* functions as the Mac? Does it have the same DAC's as the Mac? Warranty? I'd expect a Mac to last long past the stated warranty, but this warranty is needed because it's not a Mac unit, it's a japanese unit. I don't know. I took a closer look at the guts of the MS-300. It uses a Lite-On CD-rom unit - the same one that I bought for my PC a few months ago - nothing special about that. It also uses an off the shelf hard drive - the same that's in your computer. The board is Escient. Nothing more in there that says McIntosh. Actually, there's *nothing* in there that says McIntosh.
I have a computer stashed in my closet. It has a 300 gig hard drive, WinXP, and all my CD's stored in it, as well as many thousand family photos and home movies. It's connected to my wireless hub. This computer always stays on. Any of my series 2 Tivo's can access the music and photos on that computer and stream it over to my stereo system so I can hear the music and see the photos and movies on my TV's. Granted the Tivo cannot do FLAC (Tivo says they will release a software upgrade soon to handle FLAC files), but for what the Tivo cost me ($300.00), it does a great job. Now this isin't exactly a fair comparison as the MS300 is a dedicated music server and the Tivo needs a computer to stream the music, but for a total package of less than $1000.00 (computer, wireless router, and Tivo) I have all my music, photos, and videos on ANY TV and sound system in my house. The point I'm making is that for a lot less money than what McIntosh charges for their server, as well as many others, you can really do better. Music servers are cheap. They're a dime a dozen if you already have a computer.
I have a computer stashed in my closet. It has a 300 gig hard drive, WinXP, and all my CD's stored in it, as well as many thousand family photos and home movies. It's connected to my wireless hub. This computer always stays on. Any of my series 2 Tivo's can access the music and photos on that computer and stream it over to my stereo system so I can hear the music and see the photos and movies on my TV's. Granted the Tivo cannot do FLAC (Tivo says they will release a software upgrade soon to handle FLAC files), but for what the Tivo cost me ($300.00), it does a great job. Now this isin't exactly a fair comparison as the MS300 is a dedicated music server and the Tivo needs a computer to stream the music, but for a total package of less than $1000.00 (computer, wireless router, and Tivo) I have all my music, photos, and videos on ANY TV and sound system in my house. The point I'm making is that for a lot less money than what McIntosh charges for their server, as well as many others, you can really do better. Music servers are cheap. They're a dime a dozen if you already have a computer.
JimmyNeutron said:
And if you don't want to have to play with a computer, and you want the gracenote service, and you want it to look right in your rack, and...
jrsystems
Super Member
Jimmy, the MS300 is not for you. You are not comparing apples to apples in terms of convenience, interface and most importantly sound quality. Your Tivo/computer network is a great set-up. I have a similar set-up for my MP3's through Windows Media Center with extenders to other rooms. It has it's conveniences but it is buggy, frequently needs reboots, the interface is slow and not nearly as good as the McIntosh's, and of course the sound quality is not in the same league.
As for the SE-80, it is 80gb with no critical changer support. I do not believe the hard drive is easily changed at all. The comparable unit is an E2-200 or 400 which is closer in price and has a 1 year warranty vs. Mc's 3 year warranty. Comparing the SE-80 and MS300 is like comparing my very good Denon 2200 with the MVP861 that replaced it. Denon and McIntosh are owned by the same company and the units have the same funtionality. Why spend 8 times as much on the McIntosh?
Since you insist on standing on these distant comparisons, you could probably not justify an MS300 for yourself. If your stuff works for you, great, but the MS300 is a very different product then what you are comparing it to.
JR
As for the SE-80, it is 80gb with no critical changer support. I do not believe the hard drive is easily changed at all. The comparable unit is an E2-200 or 400 which is closer in price and has a 1 year warranty vs. Mc's 3 year warranty. Comparing the SE-80 and MS300 is like comparing my very good Denon 2200 with the MVP861 that replaced it. Denon and McIntosh are owned by the same company and the units have the same funtionality. Why spend 8 times as much on the McIntosh?
Since you insist on standing on these distant comparisons, you could probably not justify an MS300 for yourself. If your stuff works for you, great, but the MS300 is a very different product then what you are comparing it to.
JR
I have a MS300 and I am realy happy with it. Using FLAC is almost imposible to tell the difference between my cd player (MVP861) and the server.
I remember paying less than 5100, my dealer usually discounts on the MSRP so I think I got a good deal.
Perhaps the MS300 is not the best solution for everybody but to me is great. I have more than 1200 CD and almost 600 in the MS300, probably half in FLAC and the other half in MP3 at 320kb. It looks great, it sounds even better and it is a McIntosh.
I remember paying less than 5100, my dealer usually discounts on the MSRP so I think I got a good deal.
Perhaps the MS300 is not the best solution for everybody but to me is great. I have more than 1200 CD and almost 600 in the MS300, probably half in FLAC and the other half in MP3 at 320kb. It looks great, it sounds even better and it is a McIntosh.
Dr. Parallax
Sine nomine
Ron wrote about the DACs in this thread (starting with post Nº 3)
http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=45847&highlight=ms-300+dac
http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=45847&highlight=ms-300+dac
