My Dream Cassette Deck

[grateful]

Back in the mid 80s, I worked at Stereolab in Cambridge and used to repair a lot of high end decks. There were others that could obtain 20 khz recording at 0 db. The HK CD-491 could and i think the Onkyo TA-2080 was another. Interestingly, the most expensive machines were the super fancy Tandbergs, they couldn't come close and would roll off at 16 khz. The 3 head JVC decks such as the KDA-77 also had superior high frequency headroom and were good to 18KHz at 0. The JVC used the Super ANRS noise reduction that preceded Dolby C by several years and really was superb in it's ability to prevent high frequency tape saturation. I own a Nakamichi CR-3 and it also will do 20khz at 0. They can be found super cheap. My favorite overall deck was the Nak 680zx. That machine could do 22khz at 0. Even at half speed it was ruler flat to 15hkz and could outperform many of it's competition. My tape of choice was the Maxell UDXL2. To obtain these numbers the tape needed to be brand new or nearly so. Metal tapes provided even better performance but the quality was so good with the xl2 I felt metal was overkill for most purposes.

 

[braxus]

Funny as I thought I read the specs on the Tandberg 3014A going up to 24khz. But I didn't see if that was -20 or above.

 

[goldear]

Funny as I thought I read the specs on the Tandberg 3014A going up to 24khz. But I didn't see if that was -20 or above.

The Tandbergs do have exceptionally extended response at -20dB, but are less impressive at 0dB. Tandberg never employed Dolby HX-pro like much of the competition did, and so it is not surprising that they are at a competitive disadvantage in the HF headroom department.

But specs only tell part of the story, as the Tandbergs sound truly amazing (better than any other cassette decks that I have heard), even if they may not spec as well as some of the competition in every regard.

 

[hammr7]

Glad to hear someone singing the praises of the HK 3-head decks. Granted, they did use HXPro, but it was wonderfully painless compared to Dolby B and C. In the 1980s I wanted a top end Nak until I got my HK (at a sizable discount, because my girlfriend worked for HK's advertising agency), and my friend with the Nak began visiting the repair shop on a seemingly monthly basis.

I lived in Boston at the time, and my roommates and friends were local musicians. My HK was utilized by many groups for live performances at many local venues (from the Tam O'Shanter and Jack's, to Bunratty's and any number of live-music dives), and all felt it captured the best live recordings their groups ever had. Its ironic, but the tape of choice back then was Nakamichi's short-lived Metal Tape; expensive as could be but it sounded amazing.

 

[SaSi]

It might happen. There is some concern that digital tape & other digital formats are turning out to be not as reliable as previously thought. That's one of the reasons I started using analog cassettes again.

I read an article where someone at one of the major labels tried to play a digital tape from 1989 & their machines couldn't read the tape. Not only that, but the article said that major studios still use analog 50% of the time at some point during the recording process.

Read the recent thread I started about the Sony 670 DAT recorder. I was trying to playback DAT tapes on that Sony. The tapes were recorded between '95 and '99 on a Technics and another (owner can't remember the brand) DAT recorder. The 48kHz tapes play well on my Aiwa DAT recorder. The Aiwa 1100 won't play the 44.1kHz tapes well and won't play the 32kHz tapes at all. The sony 670 won't play any tape well except new tapes recorded on that deck.

People here tell me it's a "well known feature/problem" of DAT recorders and tapes. I don't argue them, but nothing similar would happen on a well aligned analog deck. And even if one wants to pb tapes recorded on a badly aligned analog deck, it's simple enough to "misalign" equaly another deck to play them as good as they could sound.

BTW, my Revox 710 deck and my Technics RS-B965, sound really good with TDK SA tapes. Especially the technics, using dbx, gives an excellent dynamic range, no audible hiss and no tape saturation even with the vu meters hitting +3db during peaks.

The only good thing about digital is faster and more accurate random access.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

Hi,

Analogue cassettes have the same compatibility issues often. Speed differences from deck to deck and alignment and Dolby variations. No easy front panel way to adjust Dolby levels for a given tape. Open reel does better from deck to deck compatibility in the end. The best cassette deck for me was either ReVox or Studer. Technics also built an all Direct Drive transport which was in Nakamichi territory.

 

[braxus]

Yes. Im still on the look out for a Tandberg later this year, but I too will get a reel to reel deck eventually. Im already stashing some pre-recorded reel to reel tapes in anticipation of getting my Otari. But I have too many cassettes, both blank and used ones- to abandon the format for r2r. This is why I want the Tandberg 3014 deck. But any used deck is risky, so this is why I'd love cassettes to come back so a new deck could be made to the public like the one in my first post.

 

[grateful]

I was never impressed with the 3014 or any of that series. I liked the older TCD340 and TCD440 machines. Real AC motors and a much heavier die cast chassis and transport.

 

[vinyldavid]

I hope there is some great yongun's out there that want a more quality recording than CD-R's which most of you know don't play well after a few yr's

Ummmmmm.....yep. I know that this post was made before I joined, but at that time, I was thinkin of owning a R2R. :yes:

 

[goldear]

I was never impressed with the 3014 or any of that series. I liked the older TCD340 and TCD440 machines. Real AC motors and a much heavier die cast chassis and transport.

I'll agree that the TCD440A was an extremely well-built and "beefy" little machine, and that these sound great (with the exception of their flutter performance, which is less than stellar in my experience).

But I disagree with some your other comments about the 3014. Owning a Nak CR-7A, a Dragon (now sold), and a Revox B215, I find that I prefer certain aspects of way that the 3014 sounded it over all of these other superb machines.

 

[NAD613]

I hope there is some great yongun's out there that want a more quality recording than CD-R's which most of you know don't play well after a few yr's

Just one more reason why I've started using cassettes again. I have tapes 15+ years old that play with no problems.

 

[grateful]

The flutter is good on the machines until the transport wears out. I remember that the bearings used to fail on that series. The fix was to replace the transport casting which was a service part. Now if you have that problem you are screwed. Back in the dark ages we were a Tandberg warranty center and I remember when we started getting the newer front loading Tandbergs their build quality was big step down from the older series. They also cost 3 times the price of say a Nak 680ZX. Lots of flimsy plastic buttons and springs. Low torque dc motors and a much cheaper stamped metal transport. They didn't measure like a Nak but I can't say I ever listened to one critically.

 

[niklasthedol]

Back in the mid 80s, I worked at Stereolab in Cambridge and used to repair a lot of high end decks. There were others that could obtain 20 khz recording at 0 db. The HK CD-491 could and i think the Onkyo TA-2080 was another. Interestingly, the most expensive machines were the super fancy Tandbergs, they couldn't come close and would roll off at 16 khz. The 3 head JVC decks such as the KDA-77 also had superior high frequency headroom and were good to 18KHz at 0. The JVC used the Super ANRS noise reduction that preceded Dolby C by several years and really was superb in it's ability to prevent high frequency tape saturation. I own a Nakamichi CR-3 and it also will do 20khz at 0. They can be found super cheap. My favorite overall deck was the Nak 680zx. That machine could do 22khz at 0. Even at half speed it was ruler flat to 15hkz and could outperform many of it's competition. My tape of choice was the Maxell UDXL2. To obtain these numbers the tape needed to be brand new or nearly so. Metal tapes provided even better performance but the quality was so good with the xl2 I felt metal was overkill for most purposes.

This is simply way out of line statements with absolutely no truth left.

I'm sorry.
I find you unreliable.

Did you sweep the floors at that place you worked back then?

I have TCD 910 & 440A and the Revox B710.
Chose the 910 instead of all the Nak's that I tested.
Dragon, CR7, ZXL1000 etc. etc.
I had a big bunch of other tape recorders with some Nak's, Studer, Tandberg 3014's & 330's/310's, JVC, B&O, Sony, Teac's etc. etc. in between.
Always the best of the brands as first pick.

Never had a machine measuring better than the 910.
Went up to 23.200 Hz at 0dB measured and witnessed.

Pick the right tape, dude, instead of putting a worn down Fe tape in the Tandberg and Me tapes in other machines when you do the job.

Make sure you don't work on a worn down 24/7/365 radio studio machine from the early days.

Don't use NR when measuring Freq's.
Don't use NR at all but pick good tapes instead IRL.

Never heard a machine sounding better than the 910.
It outperforms all Nak's.
It outperforms all.

910/911 , 3014/3014A and the 3004 are alle better sounding than the 440A or any in the 3xx series.
They sound better, they measure better and have better drivetrain.

Think before you talk.
I wrote more detailed about testing of the best of Tandberg, Revox and Nakamichi up against each other earlier on this forum.

But don't forget the better obtainable sound in good R2R's.

"dolph"

 

[KentTeffeteller]

Hi,

Tandberg's 3014 was the best sounding cassette deck made. However, many of these machines didn't wear well. A nightmare mechanically from this repair technician's viewpoint. I feel like if we could combine Tandberg's record/reproduce electronics and heads with ReVox's mechanical design, you would have the Sine Qua Non of cassette decks with impeccable sonics and reliability. :tresbon:

 

[grateful]

A little too much coffee dude? Take a chill. Don't use noise reduction? Yea good advice there goes your credibility, any cassette tape deck won't begin to approach its maximum performance with the NR off. You obviously know nothing and are only emotional and defensive. My comments are not against you despite what you think in that paranoid defensive brain. I think I know someone else that should think before he writes.

This is simply way out of line statements with absolutely no truth left.

I'm sorry.
I find you unreliable.

Did you sweep the floors at that place you worked back then?

I have TCD 910 & 440A and the Revox B710.
Chose the 910 instead of all the Nak's that I tested.
Dragon, CR7, ZXL1000 etc. etc.
I had a big bunch of other tape recorders with some Nak's, Studer, Tandberg 3014's & 330's/310's, JVC, B&O, Sony, Teac's etc. etc. in between.
Always the best of the brands as first pick.

Never had a machine measuring better than the 910.
Went up to 23.200 Hz at 0dB measured and witnessed.

Pick the right tape, dude, instead of putting a worn down Fe tape in the Tandberg and Me tapes in other machines when you do the job.

Make sure you don't work on a worn down 24/7/365 radio studio machine from the early days.

Don't use NR when measuring Freq's.
Don't use NR at all but pick good tapes instead IRL.

Never heard a machine sounding better than the 910.
It outperforms all Nak's.
It outperforms all.

910/911 , 3014/3014A and the 3004 are alle better sounding than the 440A or any in the 3xx series.
They sound better, they measure better and have better drivetrain.

Think before you talk.
I wrote more detailed about testing of the best of Tandberg, Revox and Nakamichi up against each other earlier on this forum.

But don't forget the better obtainable sound in good R2R's.

"dolph"

 

[niklasthedol]

A little too much coffee dude? Take a chill. Don't use noise reduction? Yea good advice there goes your credibility, any cassette tape deck won't begin to approach its maximum performance with the NR off. You obviously know nothing and are only emotional and defensive. My comments are not against you despite what you think in that paranoid defensive brain. I think I know someone else that should think before he writes.

HoHoHoHo

"Won't begin to approach its maximum performance with the NR off"

What a joke.

Get some experience and try to listen to music on good well sounding equipment.

Write back in 15-25 years when you have something to talk about.

"dolph"

 

[grateful]

yea dude good advice. I will do that.

 

[jcmjrt]

I've got some advice. Take a deep breath, a few if you need them and try for friendly conversation.

 

[Sir.Byrd]

A little too much coffee dude? Take a chill. Don't use noise reduction? Yea good advice there goes your credibility, any cassette tape deck won't begin to approach its maximum performance with the NR off. You obviously know nothing and are only emotional and defensive. My comments are not against you despite what you think in that paranoid defensive brain. I think I know someone else that should think before he writes.

Hey now! All audio. No Attitude!

 

[niklasthedol]

I will breathe now.
I just have a hard time reading stuff, expressed with so much selfconfidence and at the same time so untrue.

I simply had to response.
I might have been better off waiting a day and being more calm in my attitude.

For that I am sorry and I ask, please, for forgivenes.

But I am not sorry for correcting the totaly out-of-line statements.

"dolph"