• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

My system (Crown amplifier controversy busted)

Bill Ferris said:
One can always try to push/boost with a low frequency EQ to compensate, but the low-low frequencies can, and probably become muddy as the transformer laminations become magnetically saturated, and to avoid that, the driving wattage level will need to be reduced, hence the speaker`s output SPL will also be reduced !
Never will be a free lunch !
Wimpy low to maybe medium SPL background music with paging the priority, which don`t ask for much, so the lowest design cost is paramount and HiFi SQ capability just `ain`t considered in the proposal/contract !
Click to expand...
The Bass is turned up on the mixers. Also, the main Crown amp has been disabled and the four TOA 60 watt mixer amplifiers are supplying sound to the perimeter of the store. I have video showing the system. Unfortunately, I can't post it n YouTube or Instagram because of the Copyright Nazis. Is there somewhere else I can post it and link to it free of chage?
 
ZZwergel said:
I think the person who describe Crown as having "3rd-rate" sound quality is either deaf or had ther perception of Crown tarnished in the 1970s by either the DC-300 or IC-150. I've heard that the early OpAmp that was used in the IC-150 made it measure well, but sound fatiguing. Also, The DC-300 has a habit of taking out speakers when they break.
Click to expand...
If people would read the manual, and fuse their speakers, the problem with DC-300 having issues and taking out speakers would be vastly reduced. Crown always recommended fuse protection on your speakers.
 
sberger said:
This is true. My 602 and 402 fans run constantly, but for whatever reason I prefer them to the always silent XLS-1000 that I also own. While the fans can be somewhat obtrusive when no music is playing(which means if I'm doing something else besides playing music for then just a few minutes, I'll usually shut the amp down), with music on the fans never get in the way.
Click to expand...
I echo the sentiments about the XLS 602.

For the fan issue,....I installed a PWM control in the right front corner, in front of the toroid transformer, affording the ability to adjust 12v fan to whisper quiet.

I found it necessary to replace all or add to (can't recall without looking) the main filter capacitor compliment to match the original C-Audio and Crown schematic, as the board was not fully populated,....whether that was a Crown running change or a chi-com contractor decision, I don't know.

.....and I must add, ... how nice it is to have amplifiers with clip indicators. Very enlightening.
 
drumbum said:
I echo the sentiments about the XLS 602.

For the fan issue,....I installed a PWM control in the right front corner, in front of the toroid transformer, affording the ability to adjust 12v fan to whisper quiet.

I found it necessary to replace all or add to (can't recall without looking) the main filter capacitor compliment to match the original C-Audio and Crown schematic, as the board was not fully populated,....whether that was a Crown running change or a chi-com contractor decision, I don't know.

.....and I must add, ... how nice it is to have amplifiers with clip indicators. Very enlightening.
Click to expand...
Mine Have extremely sensitive distortion indicators called IOC. They never flash at normal and fairly high volumes.
 
opnly bafld said:
What would you say the benefit is?
Click to expand...
Knowing the power requirements for the style of music you listen to.

I have clipped the Crown xls-602 (370w@8 ohm) in a small room with a Stan Getz cd through some 88 db sensitivity Acoustic Research 3 ways.

Recently clipped a Crown com-tech (100w @8 ohm) with the same speakers at a moderate level.

I have seen the clip indicators light on my QSC USA1310 (375w @ 8 ohm) driving some 92 db sensitive speakers in my den/kitchen a few times and there are 3 12" powered subwoofers on line.

These examples are not a regular occurrence, but.......a large portion of the music I listen to ( one example would be modern electronic) put great demands on a system.

It mostly happens when I have sound pressure meter in my hand.......lol

YMMV.
 
Last edited:
drumbum said:
Knowing the power requirements for the style of music you listen to.

I have clipped the Crown xls-602 (370w@8 ohm) in a small room with a Stan Getz cd thorough some 88 db sensitivity Acoustic Research 3 ways.

Recently clipped a Crown com-tech (100w @8 ohm) with the same speakers at a moderate level.

I have seen the clip indicators light on my QSC USA1310 (375w @ 8 ohm) driving some 92 db sensitive speakers in my den/kitchen a few times and there are 3 12" powered subwoofers on line.

These examples are not a regular occurrence, but.......a large portion of the music I listen to ( one example would be modern electronic) put great demands on a system.

It mostly happens when I have sound pressure meter in my hand.......lol

YMMV.
Click to expand...
LOL, I have a Com-Tech 210 that I was using for my main speakers. Now it's on my subwoofers. I have NEVER even gotten the IOC indicators to flash under normal and slightly elevated volumes let alone clip.
 
ZZwergel said:
LOL, I have a Com-Tech 210 that I was using for my main speakers. Now it's on my subwoofers. I have NEVER even gotten the IOC indicators to flash under normal and slightly elevated volumes let alone clip.
Click to expand...
Well,....in my defense, in a pro sound reinforcement application,....they are supposed to be flickering rather often.

So, I'm not that bad in my listening habits.....lol

Bass isn't as loud as mid and treble, but gobbles up the watts like free nuts at a bar.
 
I have 100Hz low pass filters feeding the Com-Tech 210 for the subwoofers and 100Hz high pass filters feeding the D-75A for the main speakers.
 
My first use of Crown was both the DC300 and the D150 in a 2 way active PA system where the DC300 was build like a tank and was mostly driving 2 or some times 3 bassbins (with extra DIY cooling fans)
 
After reading a post somewhere by Tom Danley several years ago (I think I have a file of it on my computer) I'm not surprised that the lights come on.
Considering 99% of people don't hear this slight clipping I don't see it as a problem. YMMV, IMO, etc.

Been there, done that, with a lot of things over the years and as long as my ears are happy, I'm happy.
Then again I never have listened at loud levels (90+) and use single digit wattage tube amplifiers these days.
 
FWIW, of all the multiple Crown amps I`ve owned and used since 1977 from the lowest wattage (D-75) to Power Tech III, none have eaten any speakers both domestic to (live) pro applications, with the exception of a recently hired nooby cocky guitarist after being warned by me not to place his drink on my stage located 4 ft. high power amp rack by me !

Well he did one night in 1980, and when he tried to snatch a quick gulp during a lull in a song, he knocked over a full tall glass of orange juice down into all the amps in the rack, and all the amps (2 DC-300As, 2 D-150s, 1 Phase Linear 400, and 1 Bose 1800) freaked out and DC cooked (flames)all the woofers, mid-range drivers of the bi-amplified main PA, plus all the woofers of the bi-amplified stage vocal monitors !

Yep, that shut the band down for a couple of days, until my ex-GF re-coned all the LF drivers, and replaced the EV 1823M mid-range horn driver voice coils !
I bought a case of LPS brand contact cleaner the next morning and thoroughly hosed out all the power amps, then dried them out with a hair dryer, and full power sustained tested at 4 ohms, and all met factory spec. without a single needed replacement part required.

As I saw and heard this situation unfold, I jumped up from the mixing board ~ 30 ft. away and plowed through the crowded dance floor and jumped up on the stage and jerked the power amp`s master power cord from the stage`s outlet as fast as I could, though it seemed like everything was happening in slow motion, like significant emotional event situations, such as that seem to occur !
 
Late to the topic, I have a PS-400 with a hum, there is a guy in my town that for some reason collects Crown gear, he offer me to trade a PSA-2 for the PS-400.

What do you guys think ?
 
PabloTincho said:
Late to the topic, I have a PS-400 with a hum, there is a guy in my town that for some reason collects Crown gear, he offer me to trade a PSA-2 for the PS-400.

What do you guys think ?
Click to expand...
If the PSA-2 is in excellent shape, I would do it. I do have a PSA-2XH (eXtended Headroom). These were made especially for ShowCo and run 90 volts on the rails rather than 75 volts (44% more power until you reach the current limit capabilities of the 20 amp input current). In bridged mono, this puts about 800 watts rms into the 12 ohm JBL W15GTi subwoofer.

BTW, did you know that Chevy invented the tilt steering wheel for eXtended Headroom?

80-dsc_0007_58719edac94c361dff18c8930d69d8e662446089.jpg
 
No able to find the signal to noise ratio in the PS-400 ?
Also why the slew rate in the PS-400 is so low ?
How loud is the fan in the PSA-2 ?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom