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"No Point" getting higher end MM if you can properly run MC as well

MC will out-perform MM at same price point if neither is disadvantaged by system

  • YES

    Votes: 48 43.2%

  • NO

    Votes: 63 56.8%
  • Total voters
    111
A side issue is how well the listener hears. As a senior with some tinnitus. Guessing I'm not the only one here. I don't expect to hear a lot of what the best carts do. That ship has likely sailed.

I have a Nagaoka MP200 with boron cantilever. On an old rebuilt LP12 with Basik LVX arm. 834 clone MM preamp. It's the priciest new cart I've had. Never had a MC.
 
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Old Guy8 said:
A side issue is how well the listener hears. As a senior with some tinnitus. Guessing I'm not the only one here. I don't expect to hear a lot of what the best carts do. That ship has likely saled.

I have a Nagaoka MP200 with boron cantilever. On an old rebuilt LP12 with Basik LVX arm. 834 clone MM preamp. It's the priciest new cart I've had. Never had a MC.
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The twin magnet ATs have a suspension system similar to MCs with a defined pivot axial tie.
 
TunerLanding said:
I think there’s a fair amount of overlap, one of my carts is an ortofon 2m black 900$ or more CAD.
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At present, I do not own a phono stage that will accept typical, low-output moving coil cartridges, so I haven't looked into them for quite some time, but I see that AT by itself offers eight such cartridges within a $259 to $789 price range (USA dollars; 2M Black is $695 USA). Ortofon has its Quintet line that offers four models ranging from $359 to $999. I know there are others, such as the Denon DL-103 ($349) mentioned earlier in the thread, so yes, there does seem to be a fair amount of overlap between moving coil and moving magnet price points.

My one and only purchase of a moving coil cartridge was in the late 1980's, and was a Linn Asaka purchased for my LP12/Ittok. I liked it, but not enough to continue with moving coils after its stylus was worn out. I've always gotten plenty of satisfaction from modest moving magnet models (under $150, and mostly under $100). Getting great sound from low-cost cartridges was the reason I bought a Linn in the first place.

BillWojo said:
I'm not sure that a "price point" has anything to do with how audio products sound. My prefered MC cart is a rebuilt Denon DL-103, what can you compare that to?
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The DL-103 is one of the few moving coil cartridges I've been curious about. Sadly, no dealer I've ever visited has had one mounted up for audition. Herb Reichert mentioned it in the course of his comments on the AT-VM95C:

"I have a BFF relationship with the spherical-tipped Denon DL-103 moving coil, simply because it has never disappointed me while playing a record. The late Art Dudley campaigned for the spherical-tip cause, stating in Listening #186: "I continue to prefer the spherical experience—to me, it emphasizes musical content over air, allowing instruments and voices to sound more substantial, and music to sound, overall, less fussy than with other tip types." (The emphasis is his.)"
https://www.stereophile.com/content...io-technica-goldring-lp-gear-phono-cartridges

You asked what can you compare that to, and while the OP is interested in equally priced cartridges, I would be more interested in seeing if the DL-103 offers any sonic advantages over the $79 Sumiko Oyster (replacement styli just $39), which greatly impressed me even on my lowly AT-LP120XUSB running into the built-in phono stage of an Audio by Van Alstine OmegaStar preamp.
 
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jrtrent said:
At present, I do not own a phono stage that will accept typical, low-output moving coil cartridges, so I haven't looked into them for quite some time, but I see that AT by itself offers eight such cartridges within a $259 to $789 price range (USA dollars; 2M Black is $695 USA). Ortofon has its Quintet line that offers four models ranging from $359 to $999. I know there are others, such as the Denon DL-103 ($349) mentioned earlier in the thread, so yes, there does seem to be a fair amount of overlap between moving coil and moving magnet price points.

My one and only purchase of a moving coil cartridge was in the late 1980's, and was a Linn Asaka purchased for my LP12/Ittok. I liked it, but not enough to continue with moving coils after its stylus was worn out. I've always gotten plenty of satisfaction from modest moving magnet models (under $150, and mostly under $100). Getting great sound from low-cost cartridges was the reason I bought a Linn in the first place.


The DL-103 is one of the few moving coil cartridges I've been curious about. Sadly, no dealer I've ever visited has had one mounted up for audition. Herb Reichert mentioned it in the course of his comments on the AT-VM95C:

"I have a BFF relationship with the spherical-tipped Denon DL-103 moving coil, simply because it has never disappointed me while playing a record. The late Art Dudley campaigned for the spherical-tip cause, stating in Listening #186: "I continue to prefer the spherical experience—to me, it emphasizes musical content over air, allowing instruments and voices to sound more substantial, and music to sound, overall, less fussy than with other tip types." (The emphasis is his.)"
https://www.stereophile.com/content...io-technica-goldring-lp-gear-phono-cartridges

You asked what can you compare that to, and while the OP is interested in equally priced cartridges, I would be more interested in seeing if the DL-103 offers any sonic advantages over the $79 Sumiko Oyster (replacement styli just $39), which greatly impressed me even on my lowly AT-LP120XUSB running into the built-in phono stage of an Audio by Van Alstine OmegaStar preamp.
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I have its older brother the AT PL120 with a sumiko pearl and it’s a good match ! A lot of bang for the buck this table got me back into vinyl ! Is it perfect no , is it audio file no , but it’s a very user friendly table that sounds good !
 
There are many different levels of DD tables, so motor noise or bearing noise, or noise picked up thru the plinth, can be a consideration on a very low output cart but that goes the same for a belt drive table as well.

But for the most part, from what I have seen most LOMC owners tend to be a bit more likely to be more willing and able to match the rest of their system with the needed equipment to overcome some of the obstacles to get the added benefits that some of the more difficult carts in this arena. A super LOMC needs a very specific, quality SUT or phono amp to overcome the problems of super low output. It is not just problems that a cheap DD can cause, it is down the entire source chain. Not just the drive method.
 
If you folks had the WP phono stage none of the aforementioned volume issues would be an issue.
 
Okay, so here's my take. The same price thing is completely misleading. I believe a good MM will outperform a cheap MC, if there is proper loading to control that hi frequency bump. the Ortofon 2M Black is a good example. This MM has near perfect channel separation that exceeds the published specs, and has a hi output that pushes the electronics noise floor down to near inaudible levels. Regarding the last post about not using a MC because of more turntable noise. it's basically false, because the mechanical noise would be a linear function. for example, you play the record, and the volume is X, that volume is still basically X at the output regardless of the cartridge. so therefore vibration noise is the same ratio for either cartridge. The preamp for MC has more gain, but the output is still X. For example, 10% mechanical noise will still be 10% mechanical noise, not including the extra noise from more gain, like hum and hiss, (not directly generated from the deck). Using a step up transformer is one good way to get the benefits of a MC without introducing any extra hiss and hum. Another way to look at it is like this:, If the deck rumble were to generate .01MV with a MM cartridge, it would be like .001MV with the MC cartridge, assuming the MM is ten times the output of the MC. I hope this helps.
 
Joseph G said:
Regarding the last post about not using a MC because of more turntable noise. it's basically false, because the mechanical noise would be a linear function. for example, you play the record, and the volume is X, that volume is still basically X at the output regardless of the cartridge. so therefore vibration noise is the same ratio for either cartridge. The preamp for MC has more gain, but the output is still X. For example, 10% mechanical noise will still be 10% mechanical noise,
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I think the comment is regarding electrical noise.

I understand cartridges themselves have a residual electrical noise and I believe this will be different for each cartridge generation system (MI, MI, MC) and specifics (i.e. inductance value) etc.

I have the leaflet for a panasonic strain gauge cartridge and one of the benefits cited was the low noise of the cartridge itself.
 
Just broke the tie with a NO. Have liked MIs since getting an original Signature 8 way back when and became a MM fan with an ATML-170 OCC in the early 90s.
 
I didn't vote either. You have to love the inexpensive MM stylus replacements and near zero wait time compared to MC replacements.
 
To have MC which meets my needs, I'd need at least 3 LOMC with custom styli. And high end headshells to mount them in. And all would have to work with the same SUT or head amp. A major problem. Not practical for my needs. Note, I need .7, .4 x .7, and a Line Contact of some kind to cover my typical microgroove diet.
 
mkane said:
I didn't vote either. You have to love the inexpensive MM stylus replacements and near zero wait time compared to MC replacements.
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You can have Joseph retip with a nude elliptical for $175 with a one week turnaround time, I see no advantage to a removable stylus assembly, but I do see it's negatives of a less secure attachment to the cartridge body:dunno:

Not knocking MM cartridges/stylus, I have many including some outstanding Grace with OEM stylus, but I understand the physical limitations of a removable piece vs fixed.

I should add, my tables don't see $50 cartridges with $15 replacement stylus and never will, I care more about my expensive vinyl collection than that.
 
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