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"No Point" getting higher end MM if you can properly run MC as well

MC will out-perform MM at same price point if neither is disadvantaged by system

  • YES

    Votes: 48 43.2%

  • NO

    Votes: 63 56.8%
  • Total voters
    111
Sgt Shultz said:
You can have Joseph retip with a nude elliptical for $175 with a one week turnaround time, I see no advantage to a removable stylus assembly, but I do see it's negatives of a less secure attachment to the cartridge body:dunno:

Not knocking MM cartridges/stylus, I have many including some outstanding Grace with OEM stylus, but I understand the physical limitations of a removable piece vs fixed.

I should add, my tables don't see $50 cartridges with $15 replacement stylus and never will, I care more about my expensive vinyl collection than that.
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Mine don't either. But the MC people can't always retip or replace when their budget is wrecked, and used when it's end of life, does as much or more damage to a record as a MM or MI stylus which gets same.

I stick to what is good, affordable, and practical, as I play far more records in one day as many do in 1 week. Note, I don't dislike MC, they're just not suited for my use case, and application. I prefer genuine styli to aftermarket, much more consistent, and what the cartridge engineers intended.
 
KentTeffeteller said:
Mine don't either. But the MC people can't always retip or replace when their budget is wrecked, and used when it's end of life, does as much or more damage to a record as a MM or MI stylus which gets same.

I stick to what is good, affordable, and practical, as I play far more records in one day as many do in 1 week. Note, I don't dislike MC, they're just not suited for my use case, and application. I prefer genuine styli to aftermarket, much more consistent, and what the cartridge engineers intended.
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But a retip will be like new or better, you can fit the same tip and it will likey be better aligned than the factory one.
Chris
 
cgallery said:
I see a lot of people that sell recently retipped cartridges.

I drew my own conclusions.
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For the most part they're the re-tippers, Joseph has numerous offerings on eBay, maybe elsewhere as well.

If you ask here you'll find the consensus from those that have actually used this service so real experience it's a resoundingly positive one.
 
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200$ entry level MC is much brighter then a 20$ entry level MM.

They are never really that comparable in my opinion.

MC requires a special equalization, so if your amp or TT doesn't have the preamplifier ability to run MC then the point is moot.

Lastly, the best part is the lowered tracking force and subsequent vinyl longevity
 
adnick said:
Problem is, changing the stylus on a Denon 103X can completely change its characteristics for the better without huge investment… Have an original Stanton 881S and on the right arm it’s difficult to beat, but as “The Pig” pointed out it’s from a bygone era:no:

VR
Andy
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what would you pit your 881s against in mc territory, and what stylus do you have, i have a 881s, but a aftermarket mr on it, it sounds good to a point, till it does not, my other hard to beat cart is a Shure v-15 type 4 with a boron cantilever and sas stylus "it recks the curve for us" and the sound of a Shure m91ed with boron sas beat my 881 s yesterday, hands down.
I'm only asking and showing where i see because ive never owned a mc b4, and have a denon 103, snapped cantilever on it, and have many other carts mostly mm, mi, including mp 200, Stanton 681 eee, with jico Shibata stylus "very clean but hazy"
 
I have long heard that the crossover poit was about $1k with MC better.above and MM better below.

That's a huge generalisation but look at the market offerings.

The tradeoffs seem to be between mechanical amplification and electrical amplification.
 
PioneerFreq said:
200$ entry level MC is much brighter then a 20$ entry level MM.

They are never really that comparable in my opinion.

MC requires a special equalization, so if your amp or TT doesn't have the preamplifier ability to run MC then the point is moot.

Lastly, the best part is the lowered tracking force and subsequent vinyl longevity
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Are you sure about that special equalization? I know about the need for increase amplification, but equalization?
 
mkane said:
I have a cheap V15III I use for background noise, generally running all day, 8 hours or more. I'm not going to waste stylus time on my expensive MC cartridges. I am not concerned with record wear. Most of them have been around a number of years and I'm sure they'll be just fine for another 30. Set up and cleanliness is the key to long life.
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Agreed I’ve been using sumiko pearls for long time as long as their set up properly I’ve not noticed any noticeable ware on lps Change stylus about every 200-300 hrs , a very quick easy stylus to change ! I’m sure there’s better but at its price point it’s hard to beat ! I do clean the record and stylus each side of the lp
 
cafe latte said:
But a retip will be like new or better, you can fit the same tip and it will likey be better aligned than the factory one.
Chris
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But takes said cartridge out of service, for anywhere from 10 days to 6 months. Not acceptable for me. When I can change a MM or MI stylus in moments, back in operation. Reliability preferred. With good sound.
 
Sgt Shultz said:
For the most part they're the re-tippers, Joseph has numerous offerings on eBay, maybe elsewhere as well.

If you ask here you'll find the consensus from those that have actually used this service so real experience it's a resoundingly positive one.
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I don't agree, I've seen plenty of listing from individuals moving recently retipped cartridges.
 
cgallery said:
I don't agree, I've seen plenty of listing from individuals moving recently retipped cartridges.
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Sure, re-tipped a broken cartridge they got either free or for next to nothing, selling the newly re-tipped cartridge for a profit. It's really not that hard to understand, your conspiracy theory thinking is ridiculous.

How many of your friends would have a cartridge re-tipped, not be happy with the work so foist it off on someone else, glad they aren't my friends.

If you think you're right start a thread here to see how many have been unhappy retipping a cartridge.

Actually I'll start the thread.

Thread started with a poll for anyone with actual experience having a cartridge / stylus re-tipped, not someone just conjecturing.
 
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I don't know what the policy is here for posting links to other forums, but a recent (last week or two) forum post elsewhere:

"I had my Denon DL-S1 retipped with a ruby cantilever/line contact stylus and it totally changed! Sold it......."

I read that sort of thing fairly regularly. Your new thread/poll do not negate it.
 
cgallery said:
I don't know what the policy is here for posting links to other forums, but a recent (last week or two) forum post elsewhere:

"I had my Denon DL-S1 retipped with a ruby cantilever/line contact stylus and it totally changed! Sold it......."

I read that sort of thing fairly regularly. Your new thread/poll do not negate it.
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Well, he had it re-tipped with a DIFFERENT cantilever material, if it didn't sound different I would be surprised eh:dunno:

So your point is what?

That completely changing the design of the cartridge changed the sound signature lol?

So far the poll is 8 pro 0 not:dunno:, this from real members HERE with real experience not just something they read and made an assumption.
 
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Sgt Shultz said:
Well, he had it re-tipped with a DIFFERENT cantilever material and stone, if it didn't sound different I would be surprised eh:dunno:

So your point is what?

That completely changing the design of the cartridge changed the sound signature lol?
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My point is obvious. From the same thread at the other forum:

"The answer to the question is 'yes'...sometimes for the better, and sometimes otherwise. I once sent two MC cartridges to the same re-tipper for new cantilevers and styluses. One cart came back sounding better than new - actually as good as subsequent generations of the same cart - and the other cart came back sounding too 'polite', even with a boron cantilever, compared to other aluminum cantilever examples I had of the same cartridge."
 
cgallery said:
My point is obvious. From the same thread at the other forum:

"The answer to the question is 'yes'...sometimes for the better, and sometimes otherwise. I once sent two MC cartridges to the same re-tipper for new cantilevers and styluses. One cart came back sounding better than new - actually as good as subsequent generations of the same cart - and the other cart came back sounding too 'polite', even with a boron cantilever, compared to other aluminum cantilever examples I had of the same cartridge."
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A change in cantilever material will change the sonic signature, this is no surprise. There's a reason the cartridge was designed with the material it was, the shape of the cantilever, if one piece or multiple, it's called R&D.

Changing to a more exotic material does not always guarantee improvement to YOUR EARS, to others it might be just the ticket. Some like Grado, some don't, you're assumptions are just that.
 
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