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old capacitors (in their day) vs new

Y

yotems

Well-Known Member
i know ive seen people talk about how capacitors have come a long a way since the lates 70's early 80's resulting in a reduction in size per value.

the receivers mentioned are the mcs 3275 and mcs 3125

personally i think capacitors have become cheaper and worse. good capacitors seem very hard to find and are very expensive. i know the larger old rubycons hit way harder than these new nichicon kg gold tune of the same value. 80v 6800uf. the older rubycons had spade solder lugs, weighed probably double the nichicons, were a hair narrower but about 35% taller. the old rubycons were even leaking electrolyte and they really seemed to have a fuller sound. i didnt even get any quality listening in because the controls of the receiver were so dirty i couldnt keep it playing quality stereo long enough without messing with 4 different controls/switches at once, but i know the bass drops were deeper and heavier before. the nichicon kg's sound good and are still outperforming every receiver i have short of possibly the 3275 but i havent listened to it since before i started messing with this 3125.

from what i can tell, all the cheapest 100v/10000uf capacitors on ebay are the size of these nichicon kg gold tunes

the kg gold tune 80v/10000uf caps are 50mmX80mm or 63mmX80mm and they have spade solder lugs

i can find some 100v 10000uf caps that are 35mmX100mm but only from a few people, some that are 35mmX80mm, some NOS japanese caps that are 80v/10000uf caps that are 35mmX100mm, 45mmX100mm, and 35mmX75-85 with only the NOS japanese caps having spade solder lug terminals..

i know these gold tunes sound good but i really feel like they are milder than the old leaking rubycons...
 
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i just ordered 4 cornell dubilier screw terminal caps, 100v 10000uf -10% +75% 35mm wide, 117mm tall.. they should fit under the hood of this 3125. ill save the gold tunes to put in some other stuff.
 
yotems said:
i know ive seen people talk about how capacitors have come a long a way since the lates 70's early 80's resulting in a reduction in size per value.

the receivers mentioned are the mcs 3275 and mcs 3125

personally i think capacitors have become cheaper and worse. good capacitors seem very hard to find and are very expensive. i know the larger old rubycons hit way harder than these new nichicon kg gold tune of the same value. 80v 6800uf. the older rubycons had spade solder lugs, weighed probably double the nichicons, were a hair narrower but about 35% taller. the old rubycons were even leaking electrolyte and they really seemed to have a fuller sound. i didnt even get any quality listening in because the controls of the receiver were so dirty i couldnt keep it playing quality stereo long enough without messing with 4 different controls/switches at once, but i know the bass drops were deeper and heavier before. the nichicon kg's sound good and are still outperforming every receiver i have short of possibly the 3275 but i havent listened to it since before i started messing with this 3125.

from what i can tell, all the cheapest 100v/10000uf capacitors on ebay are the size of these nichicon kg gold tunes

the kg gold tune 80v/10000uf caps are 50mmX80mm or 63mmX80mm and they have spade solder lugs

i can find some 100v 10000uf caps that are 35mmX100mm but only from a few people, some that are 35mmX80mm, some NOS japanese caps that are 80v/10000uf caps that are 35mmX100mm, 45mmX100mm, and 35mmX75-85 with only the NOS japanese caps having spade solder lug terminals..

i know these gold tunes sound good but i really feel like they are milder than the old leaking rubycons...
Click to expand...
Beware of FleeBay and those selling from China...

My goto brands....
Screw Brands: EPCOS / TDK, Vishay / BC Components, Cornell Dubilier - CDE, United Chemi-Con, Nichicon (KG)
Snap In: Nichicon, Cornell Dubilier - CDE, Nichicon (KG), Vishay / BC Components, MUNDORF M-Lytic AG, JENSEN
Radial: Nichicon, Panasonic, ELNA SILMIC II

Were I buy:

http://www.mouser.com , http://www.digikey.com/, http://www.partsconnexion.com/, https://www.hndme.com/, http://www.newark.com

All my gear is Recapped (or sent to Terry DeWick). "Worse"....just the Opposite. Maybe using a Series(Nichicon PW, KL, FG, etc) were they should not be used can make something "Unbalanced".
 
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i found these cornells on ebay but they are legit. i found the specs to my current gold tunes and the cornells on mouser and was pleasantly surprised at how well the site is set up.

nichicon kg gold tune 80v 6800uf -----------http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Nichicon/LKG1K682MESCAK/?qs=%2fha2pyFaduhn2raJlu2%2f0OCaZ%252bDNZqTbHSMxU1llTkwFGpbrF5fvb%2fYBERrBlMjp

cornell dubilier 100v 10000uf-------------------http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Cornell-Dubilier/DCMC103U100AD2B/?qs=%2fha2pyFaduhkpRXD0%2f4yCSuMUGQG5kvIZ9xEy22sG%2fjqTlSGJfDMrQ%3d%3d
 
I find Mouser to be easier to navigate than digikey. You can save your BOM on Mouser too if you sign in.
 
I don't buy it. Just the fact that the new ones are tiny and light as a feather is enough of a bias source to alter the perception of what you hear. The specs are better than ever. The purity of the materials and QC is better than ever, at least with the better brands. The only thing that's uncertain is how long they'll last under real world conditions- lightly stressed in typical audio gear. Will they go 40 years like some of the old ones, or will they be shot in a decade or less?
 
if the old 80v 6800uf rubycons were designed with significant headroom vs the newer nichicon kg's with tight tolerances, it makes sense as to why the rubycons seemed to hit harder
 
Hyperion said:
And you know this because?
Click to expand...

ive heard the older capacitors used in audio equipment were less generic and more high end. the solder lugs and larger size of the rubycons indicates it most likely has a larger ripple current than the kg gold tune caps.

the gold tune caps have 4. something whereas the cornells have a rating just above 7 with a lower esr. it probably wouldnt be as good in signal path but the cornell seems to be the clear winner for power supply based on specs. the older rubycons were most likely a higher ripple current too, which would answer why they "hit" harder.
 
Weak power supply caps can seem to have slightly more bass just because you end up with much worse woofer control. If the voltage doesn't remain solid, the bass can get flabby, which can seem to be at a higher level. I don't buy that the old caps are better either, and I'd wager that if you measured the performance of the amplifier before and after it would agree with that.

Also, just a mention, but capacitors do not have "headroom". A lot of these terms we use to describe sound simply are not parameters of electrical components. I expect if you were able to find a datasheet on the originals, they would not actually be better. If they are better than what you're using to replace them, the replacement part is not appropriate. You always want to meet or exceed performance values when selecting new bits.
 
Any one here old enough that you had to look up "bass drop" to see what the hell it was? I'm 60, been around audio and repair of such for 35 years or so and I had to look it up. Then I looked up yotems profile and learned he is 23 years old and now I understand. I will almost guarantee the bass he has now is "better" bass than before. I think gadget73 is on track with his comments. I guess you learn something everyday.

Craig
 
considering the older rubycons definitely had more of a smack and every instrument resonated stronger and fuller than the KG's, im going to stand my by initial assertion.... these nichicons were like 10 dollars a cap, it wouldnt surprise me if they were nothing special.

my realistic 2080 now has more bass hit than my 3125 because it has two 15000uf filter caps vs the 4 accurately instead of conservatively rated 6800uf filter caps.. when i compared the bass drops with the rubycons the 2080 didnt even compare, the 3125 reached into your stomache with the low hz it was slamming, now it just has power without tone
 
youre telling me the bass is better now but everyone that heard it with their own ears agrees the new nichicons dont resonate like the rubycons did.

think what you want, but when it comes down to it, you didnt hear the before and after whereas me and my peers did.
 
ted nugents stranglehold hit harder with every instrument, every instrument HIT not flabbed. the difference between the old rubycons and the new gold tune nichicons is the difference between the 2080 with no equalizer and the 2080 with the NEC ag100e that is the same equalizer thats integrated into the mcs 3125
 
just weird that my mcs 3125 used to have more of a hit than my mcs 3275, nec a910 integrated amp, realistic 2080 before i put these smaller caps in with a somewhat low ripple current. the 3275, 910, and 2080 all have more filter capacitance than 4x6800uf, and they all have factory filter capacitors. the mcs 3275 sounds unbelieveable and it has larger filter caps than the 2080 which has two 15000uf caps. the 910 has 4 10000uf caps and seemed to have more power than the 3125 with the nichicons

the sound doesnt lie
 
solder lug capacitors seem to be hard to find for a reasonable price? probably because they are better. solder lug/ screw type capacitors are capable of higher ripple current which is ideal is it not?
 
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