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Open Baffle Epiphany!

The Wild Burro Betsy's were my first OB's. After building them my interest in open baffles took off. I have a friend on another forum that built a pair and quickly sold his Omegas. Said he liked the Betsy's a lot more.

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Outstanding and love those Corals. You might get a little more bass if you move them a bit lower in the baffle.

I was actually surprised by the amount of bass, but that's good to know. I think this is what the Corals were really meant for...now to decide what to do with the 8" passives that are still in the cabinets?

I didn't calculate anything...just cut open the box, taped the tops, and placed the holes where there were punch-outs for hand holds. I also cut some small Masonite strips to act as "washers" on the back sides of the box. The Corals are pretty heavy drivers and I didn't want to take the chance of them ripping the nuts through the cardboard. Obviously not a high WAF, but I sold her on the idea that this was just an experiment and showed her the Urban Fidelity site that was linked earlier in the thread. I also showed that site to one of my daughters who immediately thought of using the cover to "The Division Bell" as the artwork, so that idea's now taken for any of you out there thinking it...:D

Hard to believe that something so simple with a single driver each side, no crossover, etc... can sound so good! Now to get the tubes hooked up to it.
 
How do you like the SP12B's on the open baffles? I'll be taking this step soon with my 12TRXB's and some Alpha's or Goldwood's. I recently adjusted the crossover to 7KHz instead of 3.5KHz, much smoother upper mids since the horn comes in much later now.

I have the LS12's. They work very well. The horn gives it a little help on the very upper khz range. I have the alphas running wide open at the moment but, I'm putting F Mods on this week. The F Mods will cut the alphas at 70hz.
This should make the combo work just about right.
Do the TRXB's have the horn in the middle of the driver? They should work well. :thmbsp:
 
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For anyone delving into the open baffle woofer realm, skipping the Alphas, Deltas, Goldwoods, etc can make a huge difference in the quality of the final product. If you want to step into the highend, I'd go right to the OB woofers made by Acoustic Elegance. The difference will be one of the least subtle upgrades you'll ever make. The Alpha's are a good introduction, but in the real world, I couldn't make myself happy with them with numerous attempts. The suspension is very non-linear and with the already limited xmax, that's not a good thing. If you look at the klippel measurements for the Alphas that you can find on the internet, you'll see that cms gets a good bit stiffer through the rated stroke of the driver. Outside of a couple of millimeters, it measures completely different.

Also, while dipole bass is *slightly* less room dependent then some monopoles, the response is still very much dominated by the room. Room modes were still very clearly heard and measured in each of the rooms I used my various dipole subwoofers over the years. Luckily, standard distributed bass systems match up perfectly with dipoles and monopoles alike.
 
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What is your impression of the Isophon 2134E?
I have a pair available to me but have balked on actually going to pick them up.

Thanks

Art

Sorry, it took me a while to follow up on your feedback. The great internet somehow "swallowed" my answer for you last night. I'll try again.

I like the Isophon 2132E ("not 2134e" as I first stated) very much. Matched up with a small US-made unknowned SE el84 tube amp (http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=156859&page=3) they presented to me the best "stereo image"/"sound stage" I have ever experienced; the music was like a 3D capsule floating around my head.

The only reason I don't use the Isophons now is that they are (only) 4 ohms and my Siemens Klangfilm film projector SE el84 tube amps demands at least 8 ohms and show their best at 16 ohms as the present Siemens Klangfilm full range speaker are.

I didn't make it to renew the simple x-over (a single cap) of the 2134Es and don't know if will improve the overall performance of this good old German speaker.


PQR
 
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Those AE speakers look very nice. I expect that they sound excellent.

I agree that a purposely built open baffle bass driver is a great idea. I have heard systems with Hawthorne Augies and they make some great sounding bass, IMO. The Augie XMax is two times the Silver Iris XMax and the Fs is much lower than the Silver Iris also.
 
I alluded to it earlier, but in order to produce very deep bass in OB systems, you need a lot of displacement from your woofer. Where many of the pro woofer fall short is they have limited xmax. Doubling up drivers can help that situation. Trying not to recreate a spinal tap concert can also help.

The reason that limited xmax can be an issue is as you approach the published xmax, the driver will become increasingly non-linear. The Alpha, for instance, has a rated xmax of 3.8 mm (this is from memory) but somewhere around 2mm, the suspension becomes progressively stiffer to protect itself, but in the process, it's very non-linear.

For low level listening, you might never catch the issues. At moderate volumes, I found them unacceptable unless I used 2 per side, and even when I did, they didn't remain as composed as I like. That said, I'm also extraordinarily picky about low distortion bass. I got the but 16 years ago and haven't been able to go back to anything but low distortion bass. What some find pleasing bothers me.
 
For anyone delving into the open baffle woofer realm, skipping the Alphas, Deltas, Goldwoods, etc can make a huge difference in the quality of the final product. If you want to step into the highend, I'd go right to the OB woofers made by Acoustic Elegance. The difference will be one of the least subtle upgrades you'll ever make. The Alpha's are a good introduction, but in the real world, I couldn't make myself happy with them with numerous attempts. The suspension is very non-linear and with the already limited xmax, that's not a good thing. If you look at the klippel measurements for the Alphas that you can find on the internet, you'll see that cms gets a good bit stiffer through the rated stroke of the driver. Outside of a couple of millimeters, it measures completely different.

Also, while dipole bass is *slightly* less room dependent then some monopoles, the response is still very much dominated by the room. Room modes were still very clearly heard and measured in each of the rooms I used my various dipole subwoofers over the years. Luckily, standard distributed bass systems match up perfectly with dipoles and monopoles alike.

We're all about pictures on this thread so how bout a picture of those H-frame Alphas you said you tried but didn't like?
 
Interesting that Nelson Pass uses the lowly 15" Eminence woofers in his Lowther open baffle so those of us who use and like them are in good company.

FWIW the Acoustic Elegance 15's are only about 6 times the price of the Eminence woofers.
 
No pictures of the h frames. The Alphas work pretty well as an entry into the idea of OB, I certainly wouldn't call them lowly just entry level. However, for someone who wants to take the next step, there are very clear upgrades available to consider. Certainly, an OB fan such as yourself wouldn't want to keep people from upgrading, would you?

It almost seems like you are taking this personally when I just wanted to point out some factual design limitations and options to get around them. I've heard a couple of Nelson Pass's speakers and they tend to be not for me but I think that is more due to his use of Lowthers than any other design choices. I love his amps and his phono, however.
 
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Do the TRXB's have the horn in the middle of the driver? They should work well. :thmbsp:

Yes, they have a coaxially mounted EV T-35B horn. While far from the best tweeter, being crossover so high as in my application makes the harsh upper mids it's known for a non-issue. They start to run out of steam between 14KHz and 16KHz, but I haven't had any issues with them in that regard.
 
dnewma04,

On the three forums I visit regularly you're the first to build the Alphas in H-frames and not be a fan. I was hoping you had a picture so we could see if anything went wrong in the way you constructed them.

How have the AE's worked for your OB builds and what baffle type did you use? Any pictures?

Recommending high end woofers is fine for those who can afford them and have advanced up the OB ladder but in this thread we have those who are contemplating their first OB build and some who are just getting their feet wet.
 
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