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Open Baffle Epiphany!

Man! Reading all of this really makes me want to try this. I already have some Pioneer 4" full-range drivers I bought from Parts Express several years ago. I also have some plywood and the tools needed. All that I would have to buy are the woofers. I live in very old wood house that has a gas space heater in the living room, so I must wait until we no longer need to use that because of space issues. The OB speakers could be my summer speakers, and my current speakers could be my winter speakers. Peace and goodwill.
 
Another reason there are so few companies selling OB's is that everything is visible. There's no 3/8" particle board veneered box to hide those $25 Vifas, the $30 Morel tweeters, and $6 caps and no justification to charge $1000.
 
Another reason there are so few companies selling OB's is that everything is visible. There's no 3/8" particle board veneered box to hide those $25 Vifas, the $30 Morel tweeters, and $6 caps and no justification to charge $1000.

I agree but not for the same reasons. The fact that it's all visible is not a selling point for many people. Most folks would prefer not to have what looks like home made kit for $4800. Even with the nice veneer and styling I can't get past the exposed drivers for that much cash.
I think that's why I DIY most stuff these days, if I make it I don't look at the value added and marketing costs.
 
I agree but not for the same reasons. The fact that it's all visible is not a selling point for many people. Most folks would prefer not to have what looks like home made kit for $4800. Even with the nice veneer and styling I can't get past the exposed drivers for that much cash.
I think that's why I DIY most stuff these days, if I make it I don't look at the value added and marketing costs.

If I have a design that uses drivers as beautifully constructed as the Acoustic Elegance units, I'm gonna' want to see them in all their cast/billet glory. To have them concealed in a cabinet would break my heart.
 
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Oh I do get it. I don't really care when guests come over and ask when they'll be finished.
I'm really thinking about store bought OBs with multi-thousand dollar price tags. Make it yourself and who cares what someone else thinks. Pay $4800 and it better look like I bought it.
 
Oh I do get it. I don't really care when guests come over and ask when they'll be finished.
I'm really thinking about store bought OBs with multi-thousand dollar price tags. Make it yourself and who cares what someone else thinks. Pay $4800 and it better look like I bought it.

No doubt....if I'm paying for something it's because it's construction quality is well beyond my skill set....and it damn sure better look that way, too!
 
Another reason there are so few companies selling OB's is that everything is visible. There's no 3/8" particle board veneered box to hide those $25 Vifas, the $30 Morel tweeters, and $6 caps and no justification to charge $1000.

I'm not sure I follow this at all, I'd be surprised if a single designer ever thought in those terms. The prices you see at PE and madisound are significantly marked up from what a speaker mfg will pay. I see no shame in charging 1000.00 for a pair of speakers with 100.00 in total parts, or 5000.00 for speakers with 350.00 in total parts. There is far more that goes into it than the cost of drivers.

Have you come across 1000.00 speakers with 3/8" particle board construction? I can't say I have.
 
Hey Nailer...let's build you a set of those! Seriously! I have the tools and facilities......those look too easy to not try!

I like your style Michael. I've just started thinking OB as my next speaker and am in no rush. A post Beta project:scratch2:

BTW, I'm thinking a Ford GT is not a viable option as an everyday driver. :thmbsp:
 
I'm not sure I follow this at all, I'd be surprised if a single designer ever thought in those terms. The prices you see at PE and madisound are significantly marked up from what a speaker mfg will pay. I see no shame in charging 1000.00 for a pair of speakers with 100.00 in total parts, or 5000.00 for speakers with 350.00 in total parts. There is far more that goes into it than the cost of drivers.

Have you come across 1000.00 speakers with 3/8" particle board construction? I can't say I have.

We don't see eye to eye on much do we?
 
I like your style Michael. I've just started thinking OB as my next speaker and am in no rush. A post Beta project:scratch2:

BTW, I'm thinking a Ford GT is not a viable option as an everyday driver. :thmbsp:

DAMMIT! You saw right through my hidden agenda!

Oh hell, I'll still help you with those OB's.....post Betas, just as you suggested. :D
 
The open baffle culture bucks the system. It's as far from mainstream audio as one can get. It cuts against the grain of commercial offerings and allows a person with limited resources to use high end drivers that would not be affordable in store bought speakers. It allows a person lacking DIY and technical skills such as myself to build something that far exceeds one's expectations.

It's high end sound for the common man without the bling, the status and the price tag. No need to consider OB if you want your neighbors to think you've arrived. They won't be impressed but you will be.

I read the techno babble and think how lucky I am to have discovered something so easy and so right that I don't have to be bogged down in the details. All the measurements and frequency graphs will never make me less appreciative of what I hear from open baffles. It is comical how folks love to tell you how something sounds that they've never heard.

The only reason I post about OB's is to share my enthusiasm and the pay back comes when someone else I've encouraged has that same eureka moment.
 
Well said, Paul.

I'm coming to view OB's as a design concept that does less fighting against physics and more taking advantage of physics compared to box speakers. Kind of akin to comparing Aikido to Tae Kwon Do.
 
It's high end sound for the common man without the bling, the status and the price tag. No need to consider OB if you want your neighbors to think you've arrived. They won't be impressed but you will be.

I'd agree with this except for the Emerald Physics example that was posted a few pages ago. That is strictly bling to me. A nice thick board and three good drivers does not equal $4800 to me. YMMV.
Leave the price tag on so that everyone knows you've got good taste.
 
Well said, Paul.

I'm coming to view OB's as a design concept that does less fighting against physics and more taking advantage of physics compared to box speakers. Kind of akin to comparing Aikido to Tae Kwon Do.

I prefer Kung Fu to either of those :D
 
I have been following this thread with some interest as I have recently bought my first pair of OB speakers. These are a few thoughts from a simple pig.

It seems that some of the OB designs are really just a psuedo infinite baffle design, such as the JE Labs baffle set ups. The baffles are so wide that they get the drivers to perform at almost full range capability, or at least get the lions share of the bass response they have. But they are so big that they dominate a room, in essence they are a false front wall.

I certainly see the value of the DIY side of OB speakers. A hobbyists with a minimum of tools and skills can put together a very attractive baffle with a bit of thought and attention to detail. But I certainly can understand that people may find them less than attractive due to the exposed drivers. My wife certainly does not appreciate my speakers when viewed from the back, which is what happens when you walk into the room. But there certainly is value in terms of costs of drivers when bought from Madisound or Parts Express and the cost of the baffle, and crossover parts.

When going with a narrower baffle, the system complexity can escalate quickly. My Hawthorne baffles are 15 inches wide, but use two 10" helper woofers per side, as well as a 10" coax driver. While this gives you respectable bass, it still needs a subwoofer to be a true full range system. I was fortunate to buy an Infinity Cascade 15 sub on close out, but its a $1500 MSRP sub. I certainly don't think you need one that expensive, but a good sub is a few bucks. Add to the mix the need for a plate amp for the bass drivers per speaker, and the system gets complex. now if you want to do electronic x-over you can possibly be adding one more amp for the tweeter and the associated cabling.

In some ways I see an OB speaker as a poor mans electrostatic/planar kind of speaker. You get the same kind of boxless sound, but it does lag behind in terms of transparency and low level detail. But you gain better dynamic contrasts, perhaps a bit deeper bass, and may not need as robust, expensive amplification. In my particular set up I got high efficiency OB speakers, and can run an 8 wpc SET amp. But I also need a 200 watt plate amp per speaker for the bass section....and then the sub.

Every speaker design has its strengths and limitations. OB are no different. I certainly see the value to the cost conscious hobbyist, and it allows them to use far better drivers than what might be found in a comparably priced commercial offering. I can see the attraction of the boxless sound also. I like what my speaker system does, but I also know its short comings. There have been some onteresting OB designs done commercially, like the Carver Amazings, the emerald Physics, the Linkwitz, and what not. There have also been hybrid speakers using OB elements like the vandersteen, Dahlquist, Alon and what not.

I think the format is worth exploring, as long as you go into it with an understanding of what is and is not possible. Which is not what i did, but I am fortunate that things are working out nicely. I do wonder if car audio woofers might have an application in a home open baffle system. Some are meant for some infinite baffle kind of arrangements, and this might translate into OB compatibility.

But this is just the opinion of a simple pig. If you want a second opinion go ask the cows for they are wise. Do not talk to the chickens as fowl are liars and they cheat at cards.


Regards
Mister Pig
 
I'd agree with this except for the Emerald Physics example that was posted a few pages ago. That is strictly bling to me. A nice thick board and three good drivers does not equal $4800 to me. YMMV.
Leave the price tag on so that everyone knows you've got good taste.

I agree and you could build those for a few hundred. But the company deserves to earn a profit and probably don't sell many so they have to be high priced. I wonder if some of their R&D came from audio forums? I know of other companies that tap that resource.
 
Mister Pig,

If you had the 15" Augies you might not feel the need for a sub. But then again you'd need wider baffles. Oh well….

Now don't you be puttin us chickens down, you hear?
 
This was the motivation of Jim Whiney...in 1972

Magnepan / Magneplanar speakers have come a long way since then. The very large area of the Magnepan diaphragm means the diaphragm does not need a large excursion to move enough air to produce substantial audio output and this greatly reduces distortion and nonlinear motion. The Magnepan MMG Super is a $1199 three-piece system of two quasi-ribbon panels and a planar-magnetic bass module. The Magnepan MMG is still $599.
 
My take on open baffles is actually an open backed box. The idea has pros and cons, the WAF is much better, the bass is much more solid, placement is less critical, but I lose some of that amazing dipole imaging effect and still get a little bit of box resonance. (not much though, the bass is very clean)
 
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