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Open Baffle Epiphany!

I spent some time with my new loves last night. Got a few sides in:
Henry Mancini "The Blues and the Beat"
Bela Fleck "Deviation"
Elton John "Tumbleweed Connection"
Little Feat "Waiting for Columbus"
Bad Brains S/T

My other open baffles have had a strong preference for acoustic music but these handled it all with aplomb.
I haven't dialed the position 100% but I'm pretty happy with them about 3' from the back wall (the side walls are way farther away, probably 10'-12'), ~6' apart and toed in ~15 degrees. Tonight I'll likely play with positioning a bit more...or I might just listen.
The biggest compliment they received: my wife likes them better than the B&W's!
 
Looking at Wes' new OBs has me wondering, again, about the importance of the FR driver relative to the 15 inchers. We see many with the vertical configuration and also many with an offset configuration. From a design standpoint I like the vertical option. It allows for a slightly smaller baffle which is important in many real world situations where speakers share space with furniture, other media, and significant others.

Mine are currently offset but I may reconsider this arrangement when, and if, I build new permanent baffles.

cubdog
 
Poultrygeist said:
Wes those are gorgeous and I've been lusting after the PS-220's ever since they came out.

Glad my palavering over OB's paid off for you.
Click to expand...

It very much did! Maybe you need to send ME a bill!!
These are simply amazing speakers. The best I've ever heard my system sound by far.
 
dnewma04 said:
Very nice project, Wes. Beautiful construction.
Click to expand...

Thanks! Wish I could take credit for the build but I took the easy way out on these. :D

I really can't believe how good these are. They're quick, they're airy, the presentation is HUGE. Much, much bigger sounding than my B&W's and bigger than any speaker I've had. I had lusted over my BIL's Snell Type A's and these actually remind me of those in the sense that they just sound so huge.
They're very detailed but they also have a relaxed feel to them. I could spend all day listening to these and enjoy every second.

I'm curious if anyone knows much about these Celestion T5413 drivers? I've searched to see if there's info out there but haven't found much and haven't found anything related to OBs.
 
Poultrygeist said:
http://www.lampizator.eu/speakers/projects/P19/P19 alnico open baffle.html
Click to expand...

Ultimately the lampizator ended up with a slighly different combination of drivers.
Highlighted by the apparently best and most expensive tweeter ever made.
The Raal.
Used with other common, vintage, run of the mill, inexpensive drivers.
Go figure.

I was inspired to scoop up some NIB Elac air motion tweeters.
For my next build.
And still not finished the first build.

Just read mjk's recommendation of the gw-1858.
and have put them on the "stuff to buy when she isn't looking" list.

So now just need to settle on a full range/mid range driver.
There are some alnico drivers in my big old telefunken console.

Hmmm.

Art
 
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Wes_in_VA said:
Thanks! Wish I could take credit for the build but I took the easy way out on these. :D

I really can't believe how good these are. They're quick, they're airy, the presentation is HUGE. Much, much bigger sounding than my B&W's and bigger than any speaker I've had. I had lusted over my BIL's Snell Type A's and these actually remind me of those in the sense that they just sound so huge.
They're very detailed but they also have a relaxed feel to them. I could spend all day listening to these and enjoy every second.

I'm curious if anyone knows much about these Celestion T5413 drivers? I've searched to see if there's info out there but haven't found much and haven't found anything related to OBs.
Click to expand...


You may find more info about them by searching TE BS15300-8. I think they were the same drivers, if I'm not mistaken.
 
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I've done some experimenting with equalization on my OB's. I now run a Pioneer Elite SC-07 receiver as a pre/processor, and am utilizing the on-board room EQ features. It seems to have really made the speakers come alive! I'm curious if anyone else has experimented with EQ'ing theirs? I believe Linkwitz uses EQ on his speakers, but isn't it just in the bass region? I guess this system is doing, through EQ, notch filtering, and phase aligning, what a well-designed passive crossover would do.
 
jhoyt, I employee room correction EQ now with every set of speakers I use. Most of my OB projects were from the late 90s/early 2000s before the really good room correction EQ existed.
 
Wes_in_VA said:
Thanks! Wish I could take credit for the build but I took the easy way out on these. :D

I really can't believe how good these are. They're quick, they're airy, the presentation is HUGE. Much, much bigger sounding than my B&W's and bigger than any speaker I've had. I had lusted over my BIL's Snell Type A's and these actually remind me of those in the sense that they just sound so huge.
They're very detailed but they also have a relaxed feel to them. I could spend all day listening to these and enjoy every second.

I'm curious if anyone knows much about these Celestion T5413 drivers? I've searched to see if there's info out there but haven't found much and haven't found anything related to OBs.
Click to expand...

I finally hooked my Decware Zen SE84B up to the OB's. Moved them a hair farther apart, too. I couldn't imagine them getting much better but they did.
Damn, I'm impressed.
 
The Decware is actually a SEP with that pentode running as a triode (as I understand it...which ain't much). I'm wondering how much better things would actually be with a true SET? I'd like to try a nice 2A3 amp with these....
 
Wes_in_VA said:
The Decware is actually a SEP with that pentode running as a triode (as I understand it...which ain't much). I'm wondering how much better things would actually be with a true SET? I'd like to try a nice 2A3 amp with these....
Click to expand...

Never met a Decware amp I didn't love. Your single ended Zen is often referred to as a SET as it's output tubes are wired in triode. It's been a very popular amp with the HSH guys.

DHT amps like the 2a3 and 300B are great choices. In general the 300B's exhibit more body and warmer mids whereas the 2a3's are known for their finesse and resolution.
 
The SE-84(B) runs the outputs single ended (class A) wired as triodes. It's completely kosher to call it a SET amp,although it is not a DHT (direct-heated triode, such as a 45, 300B, or 2A3) SE amp.

It is also very low powered (somewhere between 1 and 2 wpc with EL84 outputs). Mr. Deckert was always a little cagey about the power output of the amp (well, actually initially he claimed 5wpc, but his own customers called him on it, so he relented). An SE-84B was my first modern vacuum tube amp; they actually do sound pretty good but really aren't suited IME for full-range use. Mine ran out of steam at medium-high volume playing "little girl with guitar" music into Klipsch Cornwalls (somewhere in the vicinity of 98 to 100 dB sensitivity @ 1 meter/1 watt), developing a marked stridency which did not complement the voice of the Cornies. An interesting feature of the SE-84 was th e use of 6 ohm secondaries in the OPTs. The rationale was that, since "modern" speakers tend to have nominal impedances of 4 ohms, 6 ohms was a good compromise. Not an unreasonable decision, but it does mean the SE-84 family aren't great choices for vintage HE speakers with nominal 16 ohm impedance.

SE 2A3 is considerably more practical for a full range/wide range amplifier, IMO. The "Zen" would make a bitchen MR/HF amp with HE drivers, though.

DSC_9988 by mhardy6647, on Flickr

SE-84B fisheye photo taken by and (c) http://icouldbeahero.blogspot.com

EDIT: Here's a history of the SE-84 that very obliquely mentions the output power imbroglio (which was a big deal in the Decware community for a wee bit in the late 1990s): http://hosted.comm100.com/knowledgebase/Article_Print.aspx?id=23&siteid=81244 Deckert now says 1.8 wpc triode, which sounds about right.
 
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mhardy6647 said:
The SE-84(B) runs the outputs single ended (class A) wired as triodes. It's completely kosher to call it a SET amp,although it is not a DHT (direct-heated triode, such as a 45, 300B, or 2A3) SE amp.

It is also very low powered (somewhere between 1 and 2 wpc with EL84 outputs). Mr. Deckert was always a little cagey about the power output of the amp (well, actually initially he claimed 5wpc, but his own customers called him on it, so he relented). An SE-84B was my first modern vacuum tube amp; they actually do sound pretty good but really aren't suited IME for full-range use. Mine ran out of steam at medium-high volume playing "little girl with guitar" music into Klipsch Cornwalls (somewhere in the vicinity of 98 to 100 dB sensitivity @ 1 meter/1 watt), developing a marked stridency which did not complement the voice of the Cornies. An interesting feature of the SE-84 was th e use of 6 ohm secondaries in the OPTs. The rationale was that, since "modern" speakers tend to have nominal impedances of 4 ohms, 6 ohms was a good compromise. Not an unreasonable decision, but it does mean the SE-84 family aren't great choices for vintage HE speakers with nominal 16 ohm impedance.

SE 2A3 is considerably more practical for a full range/wide range amplifier, IMO. The "Zen" would make a bitchen MR/HF amp with HE drivers, though.


EDIT: Here's a history of the SE-84 that very obliquely mentions the output power imbroglio (which was a big deal in the Decware community for a wee bit in the late 1990s): http://hosted.comm100.com/knowledgebase/Article_Print.aspx?id=23&siteid=81244 Deckert now says 1.8 wpc triode, which sounds about right.
Click to expand...

So Decware claims that the SE84 matches best with 4ohm speakers and from the messing around I've done, that sounds feasible. With the OB's I'm running (which are 4ohm) so far the little Zen seems to have plenty of juice and is actually less strident than the Legacy ss amp I initially tried with them.
I wonder if your experience with the Zen and your Cornwalls is more evidence that maybe that 4ohm match makes sense?

EDIT: BTW, not trying to derail the thread. Sorry for the slight detour into a discussion my Zen.
 
Dared 2a3 SET amp driving Tang Band W8-1808's with Dayton APA150's powering H-frame Alphas. CJ PV preamp.

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