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P-Mounts: Do you like them?

The cartridge body colour does vary. The 10 & 20 (I & II) are silver-tone, and the 30 & 40 (III & IV) are gold-tone, if memory serves.

I bought a pair of NOS 40 stylii a couple of years ago, from lpgear I think. The metal bar has come unglued out of the one I'm using, so I avoid removing the stylus on that one. It can be put back together, but takes some sork.

I hate sork! I'm hazy! ;)

Your post made me look at that ADC cartridge for the first time in years. It's not a PSX-10. It's a SER-1, or at least the stylus is so marked. The plastic on the silver body is black. It takes the same Pfanstiehl 116 styli as the PSX series but I don't have any idea if the bodies are internally the same or similar. The plastic stylus mount is blue, just like the RPSX-10, but marked SER-1.

Gary's price on the RPSX-40 is great (as usual)!

John
 
Seems the P-Mounts were popular on the linear trackers. I think my Sony PS-X800 had one.

I picked up a new PS-X800 and it came with only (2) 1/2 headshells.

I will always have at least one p-mount in my bullpen. Easy to move tt. No muss, no fuss set up and can still sound wonderful .
 
I've got a owner's manual booklet here for tbe ADC "Digital Series Improved" cartridges SER-III and SER-IV. It lists the replacement stylii as "RSER-IV/RPSX-40" and "RSER-III/RPSX-30" so both names were in use at the time. Address in the back is for BSR (USA) LTD., ADC division in Blaubelt NY.
 

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This from the instruction manual for the "P-Mount Series Induced-Magnet Cartridges." Note the dbx address.

Sorry for the typoses, I'm posting using an ipad.
 

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Thanks for the spec sheets! So, it seems that the SER-I is a PSX-10, the SER-II is a PSX-20, etc?

I just checked the DCR on my SER-I. It's 1,039 ohms L and 1,050 ohms R, different from the SER-III and SER-IV. Inductance was screwed up, 690mH L and 592mH R.

John
 
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Thanks for the spec sheets! So, it seems that the SER-I is a PSX-10, the SER-II is a PSX-20, etc?

Thats the idea. The leaflet lists a PSX-25, but I've never seen that model, in person nor on the internet.
 
I have a Technics SL-QD33. This is my first P mount system. I like the little table. Yeah it's plastic housing but it plays well. My buddy grumbled about the P-mount system. Do to lack of adjusting the cartridge. I like the P-mount just for that reason.

What are you experience with P-mounts? Worth the bother of changing the P-mount cartridge to something better?

It's all I use now. These old fingers just ain't that nimble anymore I'm afraid nor are the eyes so it was pretty much a necessity for me anyway. I have a high end JVC table (A QL-Y55f for those scoring at home) with a straight arm that wasn't very conducive to changing carts all the time as I needed (I did pro transfer mastering and the like) so I decided to use this table for P-mounts.

Here's the thing: setup properly, P-mounts can be - are - every bit as good as standard mounts are. In many cases the stylus' are interchangeable between them anyway.
 
This from the instruction manual for the "P-Mount Series Induced-Magnet Cartridges." Note the dbx address.

Sorry for the typoses, I'm posting using an ipad.

I have two of those ADC P-mounts (the red and white - one's a silver body, the other a gold) but have never seen specs for them until now! Thank you for posting that!
 
boreas said:
I hate sork! I'm hazy! ;)
Sork sucks!

boreas said:
I don't have any idea if the bodies are internally the same or similar. The plastic stylus mount is blue, just like the RPSX-10, but marked SER-1.
I meant to say earlier that the bodies are so similar electrically that they're virtually the same. The interesting thing about the FR graphs is that the 40/IV is not as flat through the upper mids and low treble as the 30/III, but its separation deteriorates an eensy bit more slowly in the upper treble, indicating that the resonance point of the 40's/IV's moving assembly is either much higher (possible) or better-damped (more likely, imo) or a combo of both. Interesting. So you should get both. Deffanatley. Real world, they're so close that if you're not geeked by the titanium canti and sidesaddle diamond of the 40, get the 30 and don't look back.
ADC SER III (PSX-30) and IV (PSX-40) FR graphs.jpg
SER III = PSX-30, and so on.
 
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Not much choice here, that's what's on my only working TT; Pio PL-707 w/ Shure M111HE.

Allegedly one can get a standard headshell for it but the P-mount works quite well enough for my use of it.
 
Ok first and last warning - this is a posting from a p-mount fanboy....

1) P-mounts are mostly low end (myth)

This is complete mythology, it was originally designed and released by Technics who defined the T4P standard, and all of their initial released T4P tables and cartridges were distinctly high end....

The ease of use, and simplicity made them a logical step for all the tables intended to be sold to people who know nothing about TT's and want something that just plugs-and-plays.... so they came to dominate the low end.

At the high end there were quite a few entrants in the competition - but lots of audiophiles are geeks who like to fiddle with stuff - and the T4P standard was designed to eliminate a lot of the fuffing about.... so it never achieved the same domination in mid and high end that it achieved at the low end.

2) High quality p-mounts

First thing to keep in mind is that there are very few current manufacturers of p-mount cartridges, so we are mostly talking about vintage cartridges - for some of which styli are still available - for others you have to scrounge for NOS or use a retipper.

Current production p-mounts:

Grado - the grado p-mounts use the fitting, but do not comply with the T4P standard, the versions available in the 80's and early 90's had styli that allowed them to be T4P compliant (VTF=1.25g) whereas all the current styli run best at around 1.7g - way outside the T4P standard.
If your arm has adjustable VTF - these can be nice, can also be upgraded with the 8MZ, MCZ, TLZ styli. (which takes them well into the levels of performance provided by the Grado 1/2" woodies)

Audio Technica - the AT92 (and its relatives) are the last surviving AT p-mount, they use the same core body as the AT95, in a p-mount fitting and with styli correctly adjusted for T4P tracking requirements. They are surprisingly good and huge value for money. - can also be upgraded with aftermarket styli including HE, VL and Shibata.

Shure - M92e - the house of Shure also used to have quite a number of p-mount models, the M92e is the only surviving one, the body is electrically identical to the M97xe - and in fact you can fit the N97xE stylus to the M92e.
The N92e stylus is... disappointing, the N97xE is much much better, economical stylus options exist from Jico, and fitted with the top of the line Jico SAS stylus turns this very cheap cartridge into an economy high end contender.

Sanyo / RedEd p-mount - this is a very basic and very economical cartridge, the p-mount version suffers from the same problem as the Grado's - the styli need higher VTF than allowed for in the T4P standard - so they are OK for an adjustable arm, but not for a fixed one. only two styli available - basic conical and basic eliptical.

For those who want something more high end.... I have the following cartridges myself:

Shure V15Vp
The p-mount version of the legendary V15V family - original styli are still available new - and yes they have the ultralight beryllium tube cantilever and the MR stylus.
More economically and also at a very very high performance level - the Jico SAS stylus is available for this body.

Ortofon OMP20/30/40, 520/530/540p
Ortofon no longer make the P-mount version of the OM and 5xx families - but styli for both families are still available - they are just as good as their 1/2" relatives.... an OMP30 or 530P is a high end performer by any measure. (I have not tried the 40's...)

Ortofon MC100/200 - these were very highly regarded in the early 80's when they were considered a reference cartridge by a number of well known reviewers. very low output moving coil, with fine boron cantilever and fineline stylus. - Only option with these now is retipping, but NOS ones do continue to crop up periodically. (was also rebadged by Empire)

Audio Technica AT102 family (102/112/122/132/142/152 and sold under many alternate brands and codes eg: SLT96, TK6Ep, TK4p, Realistic RX1500)
This body is of the same family as the 1/2" AT120/440/150 which are still current - and they can take the styli from the 1/2" cousins.
Original styli are getting rare, and the 1/2" styli usually track at a higher VTF than required for T4P. - but these are every bit as good as the 1/2" cousins - an AT1x2 with an ATN150MLx stylus is definitely not to be sneezed at!! (the slightly heavier stylus of the 1/2" mount gives it the additional VTF it needs to work well in a standard T4P setting)
Good to very good styli are available aftermarket - but nothing in the top end exotic category (other than the ATN150MLx)

Technics EPCP100 and EPCP205
These legendary cartridges are considered some of the best ever made regardless of format - I have a 205, unfortunately without stylus, and the styli are now completely unobtainable, and there are no aftermarket options for the p-mount versions. (Yes the Jico SAS is available for the 1/2" version but not for the p-mount versions)
Retipping is the ONLY alternative - so don't lose those broken styli, as without that stylus/holder there is nothing to retip! (a quandary in which I find myself!)

There are many more examples - Sumiko had a legendary MC in p-mount format, which was considered better than the then available 1/2" mount exemplar... I have never seen one or heard it.

To get the best from p-mount sort of requires digging into the vintage cartridges.... best (easy) options are the AT1x2 family, Shure M92 with SAS, and the Ortofon OMP's - readily easily found on ebay/craigslist etc... and with new styli of good quality readily available.

bye for now

David

Good stuff!!!

I'm in general agreement here (except for Grado's and Ortofon's - just not a fan of those personally although I know many are), and will throw a couple others out as well.

If yet to come across a Shure V15p or M92e, but have many others: M105e (styli for tat is hard to find now however), and the M110He and M111He, as well as the 'Rat Shack's version RXT5 and RXT6. I have a RXT5 with a M97xe stylus on it now and it's a VERy solid performer in every way.

The ADC's - Not bad, but I like the Shure's better.

I also have an original Pickering TLE, with a new original stylus. It's a very underrated cart IMHO.

Various AT's - the AT 142LP being the best, but I have a handful of the newer AT9x carts with various stylus too. Another solid performer - and especially when you put a high end stylus on it

One other to note here too is a couple of old Empires - a 195LT and a 875XLT, the latter of which is an astoundingly good cart with the original stylus on it. I really haven't given the 195LT much of a workout yet to give accurate feedback on that one however.
 
Ditto to dlaloum's post!
The P-Mount was the final effort from the Manufacturers in Selling a turntable without dealing with Alignment, some came with preset counter weight, antiskating, fixed VTA, and some came with adjustable tracking weight and anti skate.
I think these turntables are perfect for those who just want a plug n play setup without having to deal with all the fine tuning.
Audio Technica's high end company "Signet" had some P-Mounts carts, Ortofon has the OMP series, Sumiko had their Blue Point Special in P-Mount form factor as well. So why not plug in a good cartridge without dealing with alignments and so forth, the manufacturing company did all that for you! The only thing was their wasnt too many P-Mount Turntables with a heavy duty build. I guess the objective was, preservation of vinyl, good playback, a rather generalized archetecture and standard features.
During the 70's and 80's when 1/2" was the standard, the number of people who hadnt the slightest clue in setting up their Turntable was out of the roof! I wouldnt say the majority of the population but well over 50% of the consumers would just buy a cartridge, screw it on the headhsell, slide the wires on and boom, we got sound! Alignment was the least of their worries, but after about 70 plays of their favourite 45, suddenly the groove burns got louder LOL! "Lets go P-Mount Lets Go!!!! (clap clap clap clap) I prefer 1/2" myself because the options are greater and so forth, but I can't knock P-Mount style carts either, in many cases the tonearms paired with these units are very low in mass and gets the job done without doing any harm to your vinyl.
 
In my modest Kenwood direct-drive linear-tracker TT I'm using the (secretly popular) AT3482P.
Yes, the one with the carbon fiber cantilever.

Under rated, except for those that have really grew to like them.
I'll admit, I like it better than an OMP5 I was using.

It'll take anything on vinyl I can throw at it with ease.
 
In my modest Kenwood direct-drive linear-tracker TT I'm using the (secretly popular) AT3482P.
Yes, the one with the carbon fiber cantilever.

Under rated, except for those that have really grew to like them.
I'll admit, I like it better than an OMP5 I was using.

Couldn't agree more!
 
Address in the back is for BSR (USA) LTD., ADC division in Blaubelt NY.

So, this was after Peter Pritchard sold ADC. Do we know whether the PSX/SER cartridges were a Pritchard design?

John
 
That said, the two p-mounts I am currently running, the low output moving coil Technics 310MC and the induced magnet ADS PSX-40, were not adapted from other designs. They are also both excellent cartridges, without having to qualify them as excellent p-mount cartridges.

I am pretty sure I have seen 1/2" mount 310MC's from technics although I would not swear to it...

But I recently saw an ebay item of an ADC SX series cartridge - the 1/2" mount version of the PSX....

I think at the time, many cartridges were designed for both setups simultaneously....

Earlier designs were modded for T4P as were later ones - typically the low mass high compliance cartridges designed for low mass arms were modified by fitting them into a T4P mounting and adding mass to raise them to the required 6g. (eg: Ortofom OMP, TM, Sony XL-MC104P, Stanton L720, etc...)

I also have a feeling that some of the big players may have been involved in setting the standard at 6g... as this is very close to the weight of many of the "standard" period cartridges (ie: those that were not low mass)
 
Wow...All this P-Mount talk, and it seems that you all have missed the Big Point..I do not have a P-Mount Table, but I have over a Dozen P-Mount Carts...And I use them with the 1/2" Adapters...They Sound Great with the Adapter, and you can Set them Just Right...
I like the Stanton L737S, which is a 681EEES...Just see what They go for Now $$$...
 
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So, this was after Peter Pritchard sold ADC. Do we know whether the PSX/SER cartridges were a Pritchard design?
Know? Despite the fact that Pritchard sold ADC in 1975 and the PSX is an '80s p-mount most likely made by Azden, we still don't know for absolutely sure, but we can get a hint. Slide the stylus off your PSX/SER and slide the stylus off an ADC "Brick" cartridge. I think the best we can say at the moment is the PSX/SER was Pritchard-inspired. But then, so are several Nagaoka-branded models, including the current MP series.

dlaloum said:
But I recently saw an ebay item of an ADC SX series cartridge - the 1/2" mount version of the PSX....
Almost. The PSX and SX-5, though they almost certainly came from the same manufacturer, have mechanically-incompatible stylus grips/bodies, and the SX-5 lacks the body magnet that the PSX stylus needs, so we can't use a PSX stylus in the SX-5. I wish we could. The best we can say is the PSX-A half-inch adaptor is one of the best, adding minimal height and mass.
 
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