awise1961
Super Member
Where did you get a P-Mount arm wand for this table?
I've got its big brother, the QL-Y66f and I have the 1/2" mount straight wand.
I'd like to add a P-Mount version if I can find one.
Al. Wise
P-Mounts: Do you like them?
- Thread starter tubemusic
- Start date
Where did you get a P-Mount arm wand for this table?
I've got its big brother, the QL-Y66f and I have the 1/2" mount straight wand.
I'd like to add a P-Mount version if I can find one.
Al. Wise
SA-708
Appalachian-American
No direct experience. It is one I've been on the lookout for. I'm aware of some sellers with stock of the "stylus" assembly, so if I ever saw a body for sale I'd jump on it. It was also sold as the Trio-Kenwood V-57 cartridge.
I do have a Sony HOMC p-mount with a spare replacement stylus.
Balifly
Listening
OK, incoming PM.
Vinylmasters
Super Member
Has anyone tried the 'Red Ed' P-mount?? Feedback??
Phase700b
AK Lurker & Kinsman
I've mounted both an Audio Technica AT92E ($22 or so) and AT3482 using the 1/2" universal adapter with very good results and no problems on both older Dual 1219/1229 and Technics SL-1700/1710 turntables. To correct for VTA on any turntable you wish to use one of these on, I use a small wedge shaped (trapezoid) of "cereal box" cardboard about 3/8" on one end and 1/4" on the other, and slide it under the front edge of the universal 1/2" mounting adapter. Look at the bottom of the cartridge as it is playing a record and add 1 or 2 pieces of cardboard so that the bottom of the cart is as near parallel to the record surface as possible.
The AT92E is actually an amazing little cartridge for the money. It tracks very well on lower mass tonearms, and sounds as good or better than many cartridges costing 3 to 4 times as much. At least the ones they were making 2 years ago or so did. Some say they now changed the stylus, , , but I do not know if that is true. I liked the AT92E so much I bought 4 of them plus 2 AT3482's.
The AT92E is actually an amazing little cartridge for the money. It tracks very well on lower mass tonearms, and sounds as good or better than many cartridges costing 3 to 4 times as much. At least the ones they were making 2 years ago or so did. Some say they now changed the stylus, , , but I do not know if that is true. I liked the AT92E so much I bought 4 of them plus 2 AT3482's.
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Doktor Timo
Active Member
I can definitely see the appeal of a plug and play cartridge. Aligning a 1/2" cart can be quite a pain in my opinion.
It is p-mount, but it is not T4P - so you need an arm with adjustable VTF - a fixed VTF table will not work well with the red ed P-version
The VTF it requires is well above T4P standard
boreas
"If it sounds good, it IS good." E.K.E.
No, but it's a "non-spec" P-mount since it uses the same styli as the 1/2" version. It likes to track at around 2g. and only weighs 4.2g.
John
boreas
"If it sounds good, it IS good." E.K.E.
If I'm thinking about this correctly, you'd need 1.8g to bring the cartridge weight up to spec and then another 0.5 to 0.75g to make the stylus happy. That means somewhere between 2.3 and 2.55g (a penny) of additional mass or thereabouts. So, total mass of 6.5 to 7.75g.
Or, as David said, use a table with adjustable VTF.
John
[EDIT] My math sux. Corrected above.
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Given the plug and play nature and intent of T4P - I consider a cartridge like the Red-Ed an abject failure (score out of 100 - 15%), and the Grado p-mounts a fail as well (maybe score 35%).
Ortofon, Shure, Audio Technica all get it right, and both Shure and Audio Technica do it dirt cheap as well - no excuse!
Also adding mass to increase the VTF will not fix the fundamental problem of arm mass / cartridge compliance mismatch - fixing the problem with the addition of measured weight on the cartridge will still leave the system as a mismatch with likely problems of resonance, increased low frequency THD and midrange IMD - as well as possibly sensitivity to footfall etc.... all the sorts of issues that would make a TT neophyte quit and say that either vinyl is cxxx or all p-mounts are cxxx....
Both of which we hear a bit of - I wonder how much of it is due to people trying a Red-Ed or Grado and having issues? - Or using a classic T4P cartridge like AT92, or Technics EPC22, and fitting it with an aftermarket needle which requires a higher VTF and is lower compliance - resulting in the same problem!
As soon as we start talking about VTF and tweaking the setup we are no longer talking to bigginners/nubes - we are in hobbyist / geek territory... and really T4P should be the perfect way to get beginners into records easily!
Red-Ed-P and other non T4P compliance p-mounts:
:thumbsdn: :dammit: :boxing: :bash: :yuck: :uzi: 
Ortofon, Shure, Audio Technica all get it right, and both Shure and Audio Technica do it dirt cheap as well - no excuse!
Also adding mass to increase the VTF will not fix the fundamental problem of arm mass / cartridge compliance mismatch - fixing the problem with the addition of measured weight on the cartridge will still leave the system as a mismatch with likely problems of resonance, increased low frequency THD and midrange IMD - as well as possibly sensitivity to footfall etc.... all the sorts of issues that would make a TT neophyte quit and say that either vinyl is cxxx or all p-mounts are cxxx....
Both of which we hear a bit of - I wonder how much of it is due to people trying a Red-Ed or Grado and having issues? - Or using a classic T4P cartridge like AT92, or Technics EPC22, and fitting it with an aftermarket needle which requires a higher VTF and is lower compliance - resulting in the same problem!
As soon as we start talking about VTF and tweaking the setup we are no longer talking to bigginners/nubes - we are in hobbyist / geek territory... and really T4P should be the perfect way to get beginners into records easily!
Red-Ed-P and other non T4P compliance p-mounts:
:thumbsdn: :dammit: :boxing: :bash: :yuck: :uzi: 
Ordinarily, I'd agree with you. If you have alternatives-- a more adjustable second turntable, a brace of T4P-compliant cartridges-- there'd be no need to even consider the MG-29P. Unless you had a need for a cheap, easy to replace stylus for extreme duty, like the attempted playback of damaged records.
Vinylmasters is, or was, or made noises like, a professional-- in any case, he's no stranger to kludges that would make the hypothetical n00b wilt, and he it was who asked about the MG-29P, which has a stylus not too dissimilar to that of the very non-T4P-compliant Stanton L500AL, which weighs 8g or so. The only thing the MG-29P lacks in comparison is the clamp-on weight.
So if Vinylmasters wants to investigate the cheap-to-replace 740-D7 or DE in a p-mount format for his particular needs, I'll tell him to stick a dime on the MG-29P and have at it, because the solution is simple, direct, and only costs a dime.
If, on the other hand, it were a hypothetical "nube" asking the question who hypothetically turned out to have no money for the adjustable turntable or more cartridges, or was simply curious about the sound, I'd tell him the same thing, and leave the esoteric discussions and dire warnings to my betters, because I'm just that lazy.
Now, whether there are any excuses for noncompliant cartridges that present themselves as compliant: no, I'd have to agree that we should let fly with every hostile emoticon at our disposal.
Vinylmasters is, or was, or made noises like, a professional-- in any case, he's no stranger to kludges that would make the hypothetical n00b wilt, and he it was who asked about the MG-29P, which has a stylus not too dissimilar to that of the very non-T4P-compliant Stanton L500AL, which weighs 8g or so. The only thing the MG-29P lacks in comparison is the clamp-on weight.
So if Vinylmasters wants to investigate the cheap-to-replace 740-D7 or DE in a p-mount format for his particular needs, I'll tell him to stick a dime on the MG-29P and have at it, because the solution is simple, direct, and only costs a dime.
If, on the other hand, it were a hypothetical "nube" asking the question who hypothetically turned out to have no money for the adjustable turntable or more cartridges, or was simply curious about the sound, I'd tell him the same thing, and leave the esoteric discussions and dire warnings to my betters, because I'm just that lazy.
Now, whether there are any excuses for noncompliant cartridges that present themselves as compliant: no, I'd have to agree that we should let fly with every hostile emoticon at our disposal.
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I have a few non compliant ones myself - due to having to use 1/2" styli on T4P bodies - and I adjust accordingly....
I just get peeved at manufacturers putting non compliant p-mounts on the market.
The MG29 should have an additional weight fitted as standard and a stylus that tracks at 1.25g (for the p-mount version) - there is very little excuse for anything else!
There is also a tonar version of the p-mount MG29, I wonder whether it has the same issue as the RedEd.... or whether they did a more thorough job of packaging it together... (I might do a little research on that)
I just get peeved at manufacturers putting non compliant p-mounts on the market.
The MG29 should have an additional weight fitted as standard and a stylus that tracks at 1.25g (for the p-mount version) - there is very little excuse for anything else!
There is also a tonar version of the p-mount MG29, I wonder whether it has the same issue as the RedEd.... or whether they did a more thorough job of packaging it together... (I might do a little research on that)
It also appears here
http://www.turntableneedles.com/Cartridge-611BE_p_683.html
Some details...
Cartridge weight 6.2g (0.2g more than T4P)
VTF = 1.5g 0.25g more than T4P
So with the additional mass it is within 0.05g of spec - close enough...
I retract my previous angry words... this should be fine...
Red Ed website does not specify the mass of the p-mount version, but I would lay odds it is identical to the 611BE from turntableneedles (other than the stylus colour that is!)
http://www.turntableneedles.com/Cartridge-611BE_p_683.html
Some details...
Cartridge weight 6.2g (0.2g more than T4P)
VTF = 1.5g 0.25g more than T4P
So with the additional mass it is within 0.05g of spec - close enough...
I retract my previous angry words... this should be fine...
Red Ed website does not specify the mass of the p-mount version, but I would lay odds it is identical to the 611BE from turntableneedles (other than the stylus colour that is!)
KentTeffeteller
Gimpus Stereophilus!
The Ortofon MC liked here is another non compliant example. It likes being tracked heavier than standard too. Closer to around 2 grams tracking forces. A good choice in an adjustable P mount arm.
I had the MC100 and it was not a P mount. Also had the MM100. These are 1/2" but I think it was possible to use them in a Pmount headshell? The U version maybe???? The standard MC100 was a top mount
boreas
"If it sounds good, it IS good." E.K.E.
I got that 4.2g figure from a Needledaddy1 listing on eBay, to wit,
SPECIFICATIONS:
Type: Moving Magnet
Channel Balance: 2dB @ 1kHz
Frequency Response: 20Hz - 20kHz
Sensitivity: 5mV +/- 2dB
Channel separation: 20dB @ 1kHz
Equivalent Tip Mass: 0.7 mg
Stylus type: Diamond
Stylus Radius: Spherical .0007
Tracking force: 1.5 - 3 grams
Weight: 4.2g P-Mount
It would be logical to assume that the above is just a cut-and-paste from the Pfanstiehl literature but, of course, I can't say for sure. (Likewise, it would be logical to assume that the StereoNeedles info was obtained in similar fashion.)
So, between these two descriptions, we have a 2 gram discrepancy, rather a lot, I'd say. I wonder which is correct.
John
I have just received one, having hunted it for some time - no specs or original packaging though...
The VE early 80's Ortofon catalogue that has specs for that whole series... the MCP100 has compliance 25 and VTF 1.25 (mass 6g) where the MC100u (1/2") and MC100i (integrated) both have 11cu and 1.5g vtf.
Strangely the MCP200 (labelled as TMC200 in this catalogue... ) is specced as 13cu and VTF 1.25g (body 6g) - which cannot be right - there is a typo either in the VTF or in the CU... The i &u versions both have 13cu and 1.5g VTF.
My guess is that both the MCP100 and TMC200 are true T4P compliant, which is what the spec sheet there states, and would be consistent with the TM10/20/30/40 and OMP10/20/30/40 that were also all T4P.
Yes these are relatively rare beasts, and not mentioned in some of the slightly later Ortofon catalogues where only the i/u versions are.
bye for now
David
(p.s. a bit disappointing that the effective tip mass is only 0.5mg.... the OMP30 does better at 0.3mg)
Vinylmasters
Super Member
I only have the straight arm for this table, and it is a PAIN to change carts on anyway because the wires don't run to the headshell, but rather to the cartridge itself. So those two things alone were why I chose it over my Denon (DP-51f) for P-mounts (not to mention that I just love that table in general anyway!). If you can land one of those tables, you'll love it for sure. The only thing I changed on it was the pad - I used felt with a couple of used dryer sheets under it and it really brought out the bottom with a Michel clamp. It's just real, solid great sounding table.